Room/Building Clearing CQB in SHTF - Survivalist Forum
Survivalist Forum

Advertise Here

Go Back   Survivalist Forum > >
Articles Classifieds Donations Gallery Groups Links Store Survival Files


Notices

Urban Survival Urban survival and disaster preparedness including hurricanes, earthquakes, floods and anything else.

Advertise Here
Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
SHTF: Recovering a confiscated cabin and dealing with marauders? MikeSuvivalist Disaster Preparedness General Discussion 79 02-19-2019 01:18 PM
Rate my SHTF plan plz StevieKiwi Disaster Preparedness General Discussion 50 08-20-2018 05:07 PM
Rise of the Warlords: How I see a long term SHTF scenario zooeyhll Disaster Preparedness General Discussion 98 05-18-2018 05:04 AM
Has anyone made OSB board? Know how to make resin? SHTF building materials MikeSuvivalist DIY - Do It Yourself 21 11-30-2017 05:04 PM

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-28-2018, 07:14 PM
Black Knight's Avatar
Black Knight Black Knight is offline
Hunter
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 1,270
Thanks: 1,156
Thanked 2,008 Times in 633 Posts
Default Room/Building Clearing CQB in SHTF



Advertise Here

In my law enforcement career I have been clearing rooms and buildings for a long time. I have been exposed to a LOT of training and ideas on the subject, I've seen what I like and don't like, what works in training vs what works in the field. I cleared buildings with extremely well trained teams. I have also cleared structures by myself and with small groups of guys with various levels of training. I have also trained teams and cadets on the subject. There are many nights at work that clearing a structure is something I do multiple times a day.

The two major problems I see with the prepping community on this subject is that ONE they don't think that CQB or structure clearing is an activity that will be needed/used a lot. I THINK THIS IS A HUGE MISCALCULATION. I will probably list some of the many, many scenarios where this would be required below in another comment.

The SECOND issue I see is people assuming they are skilled on the subject because they received basic training on the subject at some point in the past, or watched a video about how the military does it. A lot of what is commonly presented as "the way" to do CQB is NOT the way it is done anymore professionally, and that is for good reason. A lot of development in technique, concepts, and strategy has taken place. CQB is problem solving and the equation is not as simple as checkers style techniques, it often takes a chess level players to do in the safest manner possible.

Context in regard to who, what, when, where and why effect tactics greatly for a successful outcome in regard to clearing structures. There is a TON of information out there on the subject for people who are willing to dig for it, and its a skill that actually takes a lot of practice to get good at.

With that said I have seen a LOT of building clearing done extremely poorly. I've seen a lot of entries go right simply because no bad guy was inside wanting to hurt us. It is a dangerous activity when done correctly, it is that much more dangerous when it is done poorly. I now enough to know I still have a lot to learn on the subject as dose most everyone.

Thoughts on the subject?
Quick reply to this message
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Black Knight For This Useful Post:
Old 05-28-2018, 10:29 PM
Astronomy Astronomy is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Pineland Expat
Posts: 4,743
Thanks: 4,146
Thanked 15,227 Times in 3,773 Posts
Default

It's not an amateur hour activity. Which is why people who do it for a living tend to devote a lot of time to rehearsals, team building, and analysis. Both before and after missions. Attempting to constantly improve results and maintain decisive advantage. This through use of innovative tactics, gear, and methods all designed to deliver an incremental edge.

On the other hand, lots of amateurs have conducted successful CQB on battlefields all over the earth. The difference is in the high attrition involved and, in response, the inevitable trend to applying massive firepower and no quarter tactics. Entire US regiments, brigades, and divisions cleared cities in WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, etc. Those troops were (for the most part) not formally "CQB" trained in the modern tactical team sense. They just did it anyway. But they died (or were wounded) in massive numbers.

You have to define your terms when discussing CQB. Meaning what spectrum of force and skills you can apply. What results you intend to accomplish. What numbers you have available. What operational/legal constraints you must operate under. And what casualties you can endure.

Conduct of LEO felony warrant raids is something very different from a platoon of Army Rangers executing CQB to capture an HVT (High Value Target). Those are very different from a dedicated metro Hostage Rescue Team breaching a cordoned site or very different from a Company of 0311 Infantry Marines clearing entire city blocks. Never mind varsity level national CQB forces.

They all employ somewhat similar techniques and procedures, but vary wildly in levels of discriminatory force applied, ROE, legalities, available supporting assets/enablers, geographic scope/range, and desired end states. Do I want to conduct a law enforcement warrant-based raid on a motel room or drug house? Do I want a live domestic incident hostage recovered unharmed? Or exploitable Islamic intelligence targets taken alive...if possible... but killed if they resist? Or do I simply want every enemy combatant to my front exterminated as encountered and the physical ground cleared of all opposition?

CQB gets thrown around a lot (on the internet) as a catchall term for fighting generally at close quarters while in or around man-made structures. But it's actually a specifically defined activity (and term) among professional forces who train to conduct it. It's a lot more than merely clearing your house looking for a prowler. CQB is something executed by very highly trained formations... not pickup squads. It's a precision activity employing discriminatory fires, cohesive & well trained units, and (usually) very specific intelligence driven, warrant based, and pre-planned actions conducted on limited objectives.

The American military envisions flat-out urban combat executed by combined arms units (infantry, armor, artillery, cavalry, combat aviation, etc.) as something called MOUT (Military Operations in Urban Terrain). Once known as urban combat. Clear the city, town, village, compound, facilities, ports, tunnel/cave/trench/bunker systems, suburbs, installations, factories, airfields, etc. by main force and copious application of firepower. It's high intensity and high attrition. 5-1 attacker vs defender ratios being the desired minimum... just in terms of numbers of folks.

The Brits call it FIBUA (Fighting In Built Up Areas). Or as some UK wags have it... FISH (Fighting In Someone's House).

Tactics & formations are basic, significant casualties are expected, and even trained teams get attrited so rapidly that immediate replacements get fed into the stacks down at team, squad, & platoon levels. Tactics have to be simple and offensively oriented, because nobody survives for very long doing it. And there's little time to rehearse or practice with new guys. It's a come as you are party with most training conducted at the schoolhouse pipeline that feeds new troops into combat.

Prep an assault with the heaviest stuff you've got (air strike, tank main gun fire, rockets/missiles, artillery, etc.). Then employ various methods of breaching, preemptively clearing red zones with frags or explosive warheads, then have meat puppets with guns clear the remaining desired interiors or walled compounds. Discriminatory fires (such as they are) are mostly an admonishment to not inflict fratricide on friendly troops or collateral casualties upon innocent civilians. At its heart, it's Infantry vs Infantry...fighting toe to toe in urban terrain. The objective is to toss the enemy out of an entire building, block, ward, village, town, or city.

Then there's the American Military's AMOUT. Advanced MOUT. Here, purpose trained Infantry (or other dedicated assaulters) employ more advanced formations, tactics, and gear specifically oriented around urban combat with more limited terrain objectives. They employ discriminatory fires and rehearsed special tactics and procedures to enter, dominate, and clear interiors. Less attrition. More precision on more limited geographic objectives (specifically targeted structures). And bringing to bear certain advanced gear, command & control enhancements, munitions, and basic enablers (dedicated breaching equipment, dogs, supporting fires in over watch, ISR, security cordons, etc.).

The Brits call this more advanced form of house fighting... CQB. To a point, so do some US formations, but...

The American military really regards CQB as the next level up in proficiency and dedicated purpose. Varsity level. FBI HRT, JSOC, Special Forces CIFs, or similar allied formations (UK SAS CT Troop, Polish GROM, ISOF, etc.). People who practice the craft full-time... CQB as their functional mission.

Pickup squads can get better with practice. But they can get their ass handed to them easily. When the BATF initially raided the Waco, TX Branch Davidian compound, back in '93, it was not really a CQB operation. It was a large and complex raid by a nominal assault force, but they were beaten badly by determined defenders. Watch the self-footage of assaulter casualty evacuation and withdrawal off of the objective. They were a defeated force. They had the numbers, gear, support, and individual talent. But they weren't a standing force (although they did come together for several days of rehearsals & planning prior to the raid). They didn't do that type of thing full time. They (70+ BATF assaulters) were thrown together for what was supposed to be a politically expedient showcase victory. Didn't turn out that way.

And THOSE guys were probably better trained, organized, equipped, and supported than 98% of most prepper groups entertaining the idea of conducting "CQB" in some post apocalyptic landscape.

Likewise, when a good undercover Narc friend of mine breached a white trash mobile home on a drug raid, he didn't expect his panicked Deputy Sheriff backups to wither under fire and stay outside, while he kept moving through the fatal funnel doorway. He got shot to pieces at point blank range... because a group of cops who haven't actually trained to do entries together aren't really a tactical team. Just a group of cops with guns. (My friend miraculously lived despite being shot five times).

Conversely, if you hit a place at night with an Army SF led raiding force of... say 80 Iraqi SOF assaulters, many of whom have 1000+ live raids under their belt, and who are supported by everything from K-9s to armored assault vehicles to persistent ISR to thermally sighted gunships... you find that CQB proficiency is a reality. Whether they dynamically clear a three story structure in a minute or so... or conduct a slower soft call-out. Usually little resistance; usually all targeted suspects captured alive; only rare friendly casualties; and the good guys almost never lose a gunfight. Because a well-honed group like that is a full time assault force. That's what they do, together, every day of their lives. For a decade or more. Well trained, well equipped, well supported, well selected, and deeply experienced at doing it for real. Surgical precision. Live prisoners infinitely more valuable than enemy corpses.

Whatever you want to call it, "CQB" against armed and determined defenders is probably the most casualty producing type of activity that can be conducted by an armed force of foot dismounts. The less trained and practiced at it you are... the higher the friendly body count. With a bit of prep time for erecting physical defenses/barriers and some early warning, 2-3 aggressive defenders can bog down a force ten times their size. Even one determined hard ass can be a hard nut to crack.

Unless you are prepared to blow down the building around them, you need really switched-on, well trained, and aggressive people to fight through multiple defenders manning positions in depth.

You can randomly grab your nearest armed buddies and "clear a house". Where that equation runs out of steam is when you have to clear more of them. Without practiced skills, collective rehearsals, and actual organization, most of you will be dead before you run out of uncleared spaces in an average suburban neighborhood, apartment block, or city street.

Black Knight: I don't know if all of the above has much to do with the intent of your question, but I agree that lots of folks underestimate the need for clearing structures during SHTF. Probably because they have no actual life experience with it. Not something that the majority of humankind is concerned with. Thus, something easy to imagine away... or place well down on a list of preparedness items & tasks to master. Harder to make happen than prepping for other things. Because it requires a lot of effort to practice... and even then, most folks aren't sure about the correct methods. Not knowing what you don't know. I think most folks think in terms of clearing their own home... and that's about it. Because most folks don't have a squad of like minded people to train with... or even a place to do it. Never mind the complexities & availability of 270 degree (or 360 degree) multi-story, multi-structure live fire facilities.

It's just not a simple thing to do. Kinda like attempting to take someone's appendix out when you're not an actual surgeon. You can read about it. You can watch videos. But if you haven't worked in an actual surgical bay, it's probably not going to end well. You might get lucky, but probably not.

But the fact remains that most people on the planet live and work in structures. Whether urban or rural. That won't change if SHTF. As unlikely as any gunfight might be for the average person, if one ever occurs, it's more likely to occur inside of or adjacent to one or more structures. And very likely at night. Yet a whole 'nother level of training to get competent at.

Good thread topic.
Quick reply to this message
Old 05-29-2018, 03:59 AM
Aerindel's Avatar
Aerindel Aerindel is offline
Abnormality biased.
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Nuevo Alamo
Posts: 5,688
Thanks: 6,911
Thanked 13,347 Times in 4,315 Posts
Default

Sounds like some fantastic reasons to not go room clearing SHTF...

Something I would be very interested in learning though....counter room clearing tactics...or how to take on people coming into your room. A problem I am more likely to face than the reverse.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Aerindel For This Useful Post:
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 05-29-2018, 08:50 AM
Black Knight's Avatar
Black Knight Black Knight is offline
Hunter
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 1,270
Thanks: 1,156
Thanked 2,008 Times in 633 Posts
Default

I think a few people might read this and think I'm advocating conducting building searches and room clearing. The reality is you are going to do what you are going to do, what you need to do. And I believe a person rarely chooses to do such an activity, instead it often chooses them.

In today's world if you come home and a door is left open you thought was closed, or a window is broken out, you call the cops and they search your house. If you think something is wrong at your neighbors house and you knock on the door but nobody answers you call the cops and they check on them. If you see someone go behind the abandoned house down the block you call the cops. That's just normal grid up stuff that needs investigated by somebody.

Deciding to clear a structure or not to clear a structure is an important tactical decision, but you should know how or at least have an idea on how to do it as safely as possible. I believe a lot of people will start doing it when they need to, do it poorly and convince themselves they are Rock Stars at it until someone gets hurt. That seems to be the way it goes.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Black Knight For This Useful Post:
Old 05-29-2018, 09:19 AM
daddyusmaximus's Avatar
daddyusmaximus daddyusmaximus is offline
Retired Army
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Indiana
Age: 56
Posts: 5,168
Thanks: 6,273
Thanked 16,040 Times in 3,717 Posts
Default

Clearing a building is indeed a very important thing, but like Astronomy said, it is not amateur hr. I've been through MOUT prior to each deployment, but thankfully only had to do it in reality a few times. Still, not being is a high speed unit, our training was basic. I would not want to do it as a full time job. (maybe 25 years ago...)

MOUT eats troops like noting else. Not so much when you have massive firepower back up and nonrestrictive ability to destroy, but too often, (almost always) that is limited. In a SHTF world you're dealing with your own... you won't have access to tanks and Bradleys for back up. You can't call for fire. You may have a civilian drone with a camera, but you damn sure won't have one with a Hellfire.

As has been said, much also depends on your mission. Are you looking to rescue someone? Clear the entire building? Scrounging for supplies? Whatever the case, a building is a dangerous place when there are bad people around.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to daddyusmaximus For This Useful Post:
Old 05-29-2018, 02:30 PM
Black Knight's Avatar
Black Knight Black Knight is offline
Hunter
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 1,270
Thanks: 1,156
Thanked 2,008 Times in 633 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by daddyusmaximus View Post
MOUT eats troops like noting else.

In a SHTF world you're dealing with your own... you won't have access to tanks and Bradleys for back up. You can't call for fire. You may have a civilian drone with a camera, but you damn sure won't have one with a Hellfire.

As has been said, much also depends on your mission. Are you looking to rescue someone? Clear the entire building? Scrounging for supplies? Whatever the case, a building is a dangerous place when there are bad people around.
I think a lot of people only think about clearing buildings in the context of a war zone, or while you are in conflict with people. If you go to war with a town and decide to take it over by doing house by house assaults, yes for sure you will take heavy casualties and it probably would be much better to find a different way to do business. Probably not a lot to be gained there vs the risk.

But there is a world of difference between doing that, vs clearing what appears to be an abandoned structure to seek shelter for the night, or for supplies, or to check a building in your AO before you board it up. The list goes on.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Black Knight For This Useful Post:
Old 05-29-2018, 02:51 PM
Elessar's Avatar
Elessar Elessar is offline
wanderin' roun somewhars
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 437
Thanks: 1,304
Thanked 521 Times in 251 Posts
Default good thread

I have zero experience at this and no one with which to train. Hope I never find out how hard this is and need this skill but I'm thankful for the heads up if I'm ever presented with the need to clear a room/building/area.

I'll bet there are plenty of videos out there suggesting ways to orient and begin training in this skill set. Any suggestions?
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to Elessar For This Useful Post:
Old 05-29-2018, 04:09 PM
Black Knight's Avatar
Black Knight Black Knight is offline
Hunter
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 1,270
Thanks: 1,156
Thanked 2,008 Times in 633 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elessar View Post
I have zero experience at this and no one with which to train. Hope I never find out how hard this is and need this skill but I'm thankful for the heads up if I'm ever presented with the need to clear a room/building/area.

I'll bet there are plenty of videos out there suggesting ways to orient and begin training in this skill set. Any suggestions?
Its a journey for anyone who cares to be good at it. You are likely going to have to start with public source information. There is a LOT of good public source info but without a healthy BS detector on the subject its going to be difficult to extract the good from the bad.

I don't recommend the old school cookie cutter way of clearing rooms, but its a start from a learning standpoint and might provide some historical context to build from. So any information you pick up will be helpful you just have to understand that in most cases teams and guys that do it every day don't do it like that for good reason so don't think you have discovered THE WAY to do it. And even if they do DO IT that way its because it fits with a certain situation and set of circumstances that works based on the totality of their situation.

Nothing in CQB is gospel other than solve the problem as safely as possible.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Black Knight For This Useful Post:
Old 05-29-2018, 04:29 PM
Gator Monroe Gator Monroe is offline
I love this forum
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 10,045
Thanks: 4,038
Thanked 13,235 Times in 5,594 Posts
Default

In our militia training we practiced clearing huge buildings in a giant heavy industrial facility ( Closed former paper mill & factory of 350 acres) and we operated in daylight and darkness ( sometimes placing ambushers or hidden people inside for several Fireteams or entry teams to seek out or encounter ) I learned teamwork and the the importance of good lights ...
Quick reply to this message
Old 05-29-2018, 04:53 PM
ajole ajole is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 9,702
Thanks: 7,676
Thanked 21,866 Times in 6,951 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Knight View Post
I think a lot of people only think about clearing buildings in the context of a war zone, or while you are in conflict with people. If you go to war with a town and decide to take it over by doing house by house assaults,
Ummm...thatís NOT just survival, thatís organized warfare, you (or they) have MADE it into a war zone.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Knight View Post
But there is a world of difference between doing that, vs clearing what appears to be an abandoned structure to seek shelter for the night, or for supplies, or to check a building in your AO before you board it up. The list goes on.
I can think of about 25 things I would do before I just picked some random building as shelter. Supplies? I donít subscribe to the fantasy of scavenging crap. If thereís anything there worth having, someone already took it, or they are actively protecting it. Either way, not worth my time or trouble.

Boarding up a building? How much stuff do you have, that this is a good investment of materials? I assume you arenít going to inhabit this building or store things in it? If you board it up...are you simply trying to keep people out? If you do board it up, and someone sneaks in somehow...have you now made it harder to see if they are there, as well as made it easier for them to defend it?
If I have enough manpower to patrol and make sure that doesnít happen....why board it up at all?

I really donít see the logic there.
Quick reply to this message
Old 05-29-2018, 05:11 PM
Black Knight's Avatar
Black Knight Black Knight is offline
Hunter
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 1,270
Thanks: 1,156
Thanked 2,008 Times in 633 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajole View Post
Ummm...that’s NOT just survival, that’s organized warfare, you (or they) have MADE it into a war zone.

I can think of about 25 things I would do before I just picked some random building as shelter. Supplies? I don’t subscribe to the fantasy of scavenging crap. If there’s anything there worth having, someone already took it, or they are actively protecting it. Either way, not worth my time or trouble.

Boarding up a building? How much stuff do you have, that this is a good investment of materials? I assume you aren’t going to inhabit this building or store things in it? If you board it up...are you simply trying to keep people out? If you do board it up, and someone sneaks in somehow...have you now made it harder to see if they are there, as well as made it easier for them to defend it?
If I have enough manpower to patrol and make sure that doesn’t happen....why board it up at all?

I really don’t see the logic there.
I'm not advocating starting a war and doing CQB, exactly the opposite if you read what I wrote, so I'm not sure what your point is on that one?

In regard to what you subscribe to in regard to scavenging, it matters not to most people what you subscribe to. I think abandon houses have potential for supplies if nothing else for firewood or building materials. Although I do agree with you that you aren't going to find plies of food laying around, but something like winter clothing or shoes left behind is much more likely.

In regard to boarding up buildings, do what you want. I have a lot of time looking at abandoned buildings and determining if people are getting into them or not. Its hard to get into a boarded up building without leaving sign that you did so vs one that is wide open. Boarding them up is a good idea in many cases in my opinion vs leaving them open. However even if one was going to burn them down, they would need to be checked before lighting them on fire.

Either way patrols would include more than just hiking through the woods if houses are in your area. If you want that patrol to include checking that a building is still secure, or rather clearing it all over again, that's up to you. But if one goal of a patrol is to discourage people from occupying space in your OA undetected you can't ignore buildings which are extremely likely places for people to occupy.

As far as scenarios where you pick a building for shelter, that situation picks you not the other way around. Doing a security sweep of a building could be as important basic survival skill as starting a fire, if that's what the situation called for.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Black Knight For This Useful Post:
Old 05-29-2018, 10:34 PM
Black Knight's Avatar
Black Knight Black Knight is offline
Hunter
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 1,270
Thanks: 1,156
Thanked 2,008 Times in 633 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gator Monroe View Post
In our militia training we practiced clearing huge buildings in a giant heavy industrial facility ( Closed former paper mill & factory of 350 acres) and we operated in daylight and darkness ( sometimes placing ambushers or hidden people inside for several Fireteams or entry teams to seek out or encounter ) I learned teamwork and the the importance of good lights ...
Yea I don't think people realize how important white light is in clearing structures until you start doing it. And force on force is a great way to prove out the effectiveness of tactics being used. The problem is that if what you are doing isn't working does the team have the experience to develop something that does, or the ability to reach out to someone that can help them solve the problem. This is where outside training comes in instead of being locked into the way it has always been done.
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to Black Knight For This Useful Post:
Old 05-30-2018, 01:17 AM
Gator Monroe Gator Monroe is offline
I love this forum
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 10,045
Thanks: 4,038
Thanked 13,235 Times in 5,594 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Knight View Post
Yea I don't think people realize how important white light is in clearing structures until you start doing it. And force on force is a great way to prove out the effectiveness of tactics being used. The problem is that if what you are doing isn't working does the team have the experience to develop something that does, or the ability to reach out to someone that can help them solve the problem. This is where outside training comes in instead of being locked into the way it has always been done.
We had both Military and Law Enforcement runnin the classes (Including youngsters recently out of Military and veteran Law Enforcement including former Parole Officers from Oakland lol . I learned a lot and really appreciated the specialty training ...
Quick reply to this message
Old 05-30-2018, 01:21 AM
TENNGRIZZ TENNGRIZZ is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: IN TRANSITION
Posts: 7,739
Thanks: 138,893
Thanked 21,280 Times in 5,938 Posts
Default

Gunnys rules " never send a man where you can send a bullet, the bigger the bullet the better or the more the merrier. "
Quick reply to this message
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to TENNGRIZZ For This Useful Post:
Old 05-30-2018, 01:35 AM
daddyusmaximus's Avatar
daddyusmaximus daddyusmaximus is offline
Retired Army
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Indiana
Age: 56
Posts: 5,168
Thanks: 6,273
Thanked 16,040 Times in 3,717 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Knight View Post
But there is a world of difference between doing that, vs clearing what appears to be an abandoned structure to seek shelter for the night, or for supplies, or to check a building in your AO before you board it up. The list goes on.
Just be aware, no matter the reason, any time you walk into an unknown structure, you could be walking into the same kind of hornets nest, no matter how "abandoned" it may appear on the outside. Your hair should be standing up on the back of your neck just the same.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Gator Monroe View Post
I learned teamwork and the the importance of good lights ...
A good light, and knowing how, and when to use it is a must.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TENNGRIZZ View Post
Gunnys rules " never send a man where you can send a bullet, the bigger the bullet the better or the more the merrier. "
Depending on your mission, "recon by fire" doesn't always work. Sure you can clear the structure of danger that way, but you won't recover anything of value from it doing it that way...
Quick reply to this message
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to daddyusmaximus For This Useful Post:
Old 05-30-2018, 02:55 AM
zumhug's Avatar
zumhug zumhug is offline
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: United States
Posts: 2,545
Thanks: 6,386
Thanked 4,465 Times in 1,636 Posts
Default

Have some training in CQB both with LEO's (SWAT) and former military members who have assisted our tactical team. A few rules I will stick to no matter the situation (unless on duty of course):

Solo, unless my family is trapped inside, CQB is and will forever be a no go.

In a SHTF situation, I better have eyes on intelligence and decent knowledge before I make entry if I plan on looting.

If I EVER intend to make an entry for some ungodly reason, I will have to have vastly overwhelming odds, a good team that I can trust and we will make entry with an overwhelming violence of action.

You must have a good light, know how to use your gear, remain quiet and flow smoothly. Once you enter a room and leave it, you will never be sure it is unoccupied again unless you can secure it somehow. This is impossible without a team.

CQB is deadly, dangerous and a very perishable skillset.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to zumhug For This Useful Post:
Old 05-30-2018, 09:03 AM
Elessar's Avatar
Elessar Elessar is offline
wanderin' roun somewhars
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 437
Thanks: 1,304
Thanked 521 Times in 251 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Knight View Post
Its a journey for anyone who cares to be good at it. You are likely going to have to start with public source information. There is a LOT of good public source info but without a healthy BS detector on the subject its going to be difficult to extract the good from the bad...Nothing in CQB is gospel other than solve the problem as safely as possible.
I fully realize that there will be a boat load of BS out there. However, without any experience with which to evaluate what works and what doesn't, I was hoping that someone could point to some better training material with the goal of eliminating some of the BS and save time. Can anyone suggest a good source of valuable information or help to identify bad stuff to stay away from?

thanx
Quick reply to this message
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Elessar For This Useful Post:
Old 05-30-2018, 10:13 AM
Black Knight's Avatar
Black Knight Black Knight is offline
Hunter
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 1,270
Thanks: 1,156
Thanked 2,008 Times in 633 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elessar View Post
I fully realize that there will be a boat load of BS out there. However, without any experience with which to evaluate what works and what doesn't, I was hoping that someone could point to some better training material with the goal of eliminating some of the BS and save time. Can anyone suggest a good source of valuable information or help to identify bad stuff to stay away from?

thanx
I will send you a pm. I have worked with a number of my friends on the subject that want to get better and understand concepts.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Black Knight For This Useful Post:
Old 05-30-2018, 11:14 AM
Redlineshooter Redlineshooter is offline
Hunter
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Age: 41
Posts: 1,320
Thanks: 6
Thanked 379 Times in 286 Posts
Default

I would likely invest in one of those S&R search cameras which detects body heat or has the capacity of x-ray vision to detect people in there..

realistically clearing buildings is going to be a problem for anyone ans that is a known fact..


just because a building is stable today doesn't mean after an event is going to be safe to enter as the structure may not be structurally sound at that time whether it for CQB recce or S&R operations.. something you might need to consider whether it is worth dying for to enter such a situation..
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to Redlineshooter For This Useful Post:
Old 05-30-2018, 11:36 AM
AlphaSierraCharlie's Avatar
AlphaSierraCharlie AlphaSierraCharlie is offline
Hunter
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,212
Thanks: 2
Thanked 2,063 Times in 725 Posts
Default

As for boarding up buildings:

Denying those buildings to potentially hostile people has been addressed. Another possibility is if you're a member of a group that has been displaced for any reason, a boarded up structure is probably easier to secure. Also, if a threat is coming (say a large group of raiders) and you either need to buy your group time or need to engage them away from your location, boarded up buildings could serve as decoys/bait, used to channel enemy movements, or used as fighting positions. I'm not suggesting that post-SHTF everyone will become building-boarding-uppers, but I'm sure there will be situations where it's beneficial.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to AlphaSierraCharlie For This Useful Post:
Reply

Bookmarks



Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Survivalist Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Gender
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright © Kevin Felts 2006 - 2015,
Green theme by http://www.themesbydesign.net