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Old 05-12-2017, 03:06 PM
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Funny how people will pick out a scenario, then say how unlikely it is, then criticize others for being over the top on preparing for it. That is what the "Doomsday preppers" shows did constantly to people. The same people have no problem with buying loads of insurance to protect against financial disaster. I don't have a problem with someone buying insurance, and I don't think it is foolish to invest time and money in preparing for disasters like an EMP.

EMP is just one of the many threats that could cause bumps in the road. I certainly consider EMP a real threat. Do I live my life daily fearing an EMP? Of course not, but such an attack at some place on earth is highly likely in the future. Will one hit my area? Who knows? One truth about weapons: Once they are built, they tend to get used by someone eventually.

Unlike the Doomsday preppers shows, I just prepare for general possibilities. An EMP is a great thing to look to as a focus point for your preps because it covers many other conditions. So it does have merit to help you get ideas of weaknesses the security of your house, family, etc.

For me, I consider power outage to be a majorly likely incident (Because these happen from time to time in my area). Recently, people just down the street had power out for a few days. These things happen. For this reason, we can a lot of our meats (We freeze some too, but we do what we can). The last thing I want is to lose my whole harvest of deer meat when a power outage occurs. We also dehydrate foods and rotate through our dehydrated food stock on a regular basis. These are practical for day to day use and help with disaster scenarios. EMP preparedness obviously helps with this situation.

Another situation we prep for is medical needs. Any medicine that is needed gets bought in larger quantities if possible. This obviously is important for EMP preps, but there are other, practical, reasons. I don't know about you, but when I need OTC medicine, usually the last place I want to be is waiting in line at the Pharmacy. I'd rather have what I need at home. We just rotate through it.

The point is that EMP is a great "what if" scenario to get you thinking about other possibilities. I believe the threat of an EMP at some point is high, but I also realize that life has to go on. If you are not willing to prepare for a full blown EMP, just use the scenario as a starting point in a brainstorming session on areas you lack preparedness items or skill sets.
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Old 05-12-2017, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by ajole View Post
Nothing. It's pointless. Nothing I need is electric, and if I shield my electronics, what good are they when the grid and everyone else's systems are down?

Spend your effort on something that matters.
I think this is ALMOST the right approach, for many people. I think it would be wise to put in place EMP protection for radio-communication equipment and for some form of electricity to power it. Communication capabilities will be invaluable in a SHTF scenario. Many preppers and survivalists are preparing themselves and their families to be up and running with radio-communication equipment in a disaster situation. Not to mention the military and other government entities. So there will for sure be people to communicate with.
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Old 05-12-2017, 06:37 PM
MikeOKC MikeOKC is offline
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I know of three ways the power grids can be brought down. (There may be more)
Anyone of them would bring the grids down for months to years.
1. Cyber attack. Easy to accomplish but it only takes out the power grid. It would be easy for hackers to do a coordinated attack on all of the grids at the same time. All other electronics and electrical devices would still function when power is restored.
2. Coordinated physical attacks with high powered firearms on critical power stations and substations. This would probably be a directed terrorist attack. Shooting the large transformers would cause the cooling oil to drain and the transformers would burn up. It is estimated that only 11 main power stations would have to be attacked to cause the grids to collapse.
Same results as the cyber attack. Months to years to repair the grids.
3. The EMP attack. Whether from North Korea or a sponsored terrorist attack, an EMP attack would cause damage to power grids and most electronic systems. No one really knows how severe the damage would be from an EMP or what would really be affected but worse case scenarios include massive destruction of all electric and electronic systems as well as long tern destruction of the power grids.
In all three possibilities, power will be out for long but varied amounts of time. But power outages across the nation affecting 100s of millions will have catastrophic consequences never seen before. It won't be isolated to a region like a Katrina or major earthquake. What it will do is change the cultural, social and economic dynamics in a way never seen before.
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Old 05-12-2017, 07:38 PM
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I guess without preparing specifically for an EMP, what I already have will help.

Two different sized faraday cages
Handheld HAM and CB's
Battery operated radios
Generator
Bug out bikes
Two small solar set ups
Canoe
Hand tools
Manual/hand cranked kitchen tools (my Grandmother's and stuff I've bought)
Alternate lighting
Blackout blankets for windows
Various hand pumps (water/air)
Alternate ways of cooking

I'm sure there's more. But initially I think I would be better off than most.
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Old 05-12-2017, 09:49 PM
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My cabin has a metal roof. Is that going to act as a Faraday Cage or not?
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Old 05-12-2017, 09:56 PM
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My cabin has a metal roof. Is that going to act as a Faraday Cage or not?
Not. a Faraday cage needs to be completely sealed all around with metal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYWhTMmv6bs
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Old 05-12-2017, 10:37 PM
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Broken link
Sorry, probably because I'm on my phone.

I went to the advanced search section and typed in "emp" as the search keyword, and then selected "title only." Dozens of threads showed up.
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Old 05-12-2017, 10:55 PM
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Worth the watch...

Fmr. CIA Dir. Jim Woolsey warns of existential EMP threat to America
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Old 05-13-2017, 01:46 AM
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This is something I have thought a lot about, but only very recently. I have always prepped old-school, if you will. If it needs electricity or can be damaged by Electro-Magnetic Pulse, then it's not in my gear. I prep old-school. If my vehicle stops being a vehicle, I will take what I need from it and hit the bricks, so to speak.
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Old 05-13-2017, 01:57 AM
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I must agree with the practice of not prepping for any specific scenario. This is a common sense approach. I'm not a psychic.
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Old 05-13-2017, 02:34 AM
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Just having them a garbage can will NOT save them.
They need to be suspended/off the ground within the can or whatever other container you are using.
The idea of the can/cage is that it creates a shield around your electronics and send the pulse to the ground , so if you have you electronics in direct contact with can/cage it will not protect them.
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Old 05-13-2017, 02:36 AM
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Just having them a garbage can will NOT save them.
They need to be suspended/off the ground within the can or whatever other container you are using.
The idea of the can/cage is that it creates a shield around your electronics and send the pulse to the ground , so if you have you electronics in direct contact with can/cage it will not protect them.>>>
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Old 05-13-2017, 05:41 AM
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A surprise HEMP attack could result in a prolonged curtailment of electricity delivery. Additionally such an event could deliver a destructive electrical insult to electronic equipment, particularly that equipment which is attached to long line conductors like ac power lines and antennae.

To mitigate this; when not in use unplug your radio gear and store it in a Faraday cage.

Simply unplugging your gear from power supply and antenna goes a long way toward protecting it not just from an EMP but the far more likely event of a lightning strike.

A Faraday cage needn't be fancy or complicated. Any metal container with a good all around conductive seal will do a pretty good job of protecting your gear.

In this case I've used an old metal strong box and have fabricated a copper sheet to provide full continuity under the hinged lid. The inside of the box is lined with closed cell GI sleeping mat material to afford protection from physical damage as well as insulation from the metal box.


I stripped the paint from the lip of the box to allow for continuity between the box and the copper sheeting.

After the lights go out you'll need a way to power your communications gear. In this case I decided to dedicate a solar charged power source to my ham shack. (Yeti 1250 with four thirty watt panels).

The panels are shown here mounted inside the glazing of my greenhouse.
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Old 05-13-2017, 10:52 AM
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Hand garden tools and as many powerless tools as possible.
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Old 05-13-2017, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 11evilace11 View Post
Just having them a garbage can will NOT save them.
They need to be suspended/off the ground within the can or whatever other container you are using.
The idea of the can/cage is that it creates a shield around your electronics and send the pulse to the ground , so if you have you electronics in direct contact with can/cage it will not protect them.>>>
Not at all. The garbage can can be hanging from a string and be just as effective.

A few examples with extensive EMP testung that do not have a ground attached: AIr Force One, Marine One, the AF NAOC aircraft, the navy TACMO aircraft, and the minuteman 3 missle. All have been tested under EMP simulators multiple times, all lack a ground.

A fairday cage has nothing to do with sending a pulse to ground .

If a fairday cage works as designed, there is no current inside the can- in fact there is usually a small one bacause most cages leak a little bit, and that's what a leak is- currents flowing inside the cage which then re radiate. I can tell you in a new Commerical enclosure, the fields in the cage are about 1/4000000 ( one- four millionth) or 66 dB less than those outside- installed, in place we test for 1 millionth (60 dB).
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Old 05-13-2017, 12:33 PM
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Not at all. The garbage can can be hanging from a string and be just as effective.

A few examples with extensive EMP testung that do not have a ground attached: AIr Force One, Marine One, the AF NAOC aircraft, the navy TACMO aircraft, and the minuteman 3 missle. All have been tested under EMP simulators multiple times, all lack a ground.

A fairday cage has nothing to do with sending a pulse to ground .

If a fairday cage works as designed, there is no current inside the can- in fact there is usually a small one bacause most cages leak a little bit, and that's what a leak is- currents flowing inside the cage which then re radiate. I can tell you in a new Commerical enclosure, the fields in the cage are about 1/4000000 ( one- four millionth) or 66 dB less than those outside- installed, in place we test for 1 millionth (60 dB).
This is what I am talking about. There are many who know a lot about the subject that cannot agree. Some say connecting a Faraday box/cage to a ground acts as an antenna others that it gives the EMT pulse the least resistance to go to ground.

I happen to believe electrons follow the least path of resistance and a Faraday box properly insulated on the inside with a ground is the most logical.
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Old 05-13-2017, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by PalmettoTree View Post
This is what I am talking about. There are many who know a lot about the subject that cannot agree. Some say connecting a Faraday box/cage to a ground acts as an antenna others that it gives the EMT pulse the least resistance to go to ground.

I happen to believe electrons follow the least path of resistance and a Faraday box properly insulated on the inside with a ground is the most logical.
And you would be wrong.
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Old 05-13-2017, 01:55 PM
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And you would be wrong.
And I might be. I am following logic as best I understand the facts of physics.
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Old 05-13-2017, 02:21 PM
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Watch this and make up your mind:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgU2t3gLJSM
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Old 05-13-2017, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PalmettoTree View Post
This is what I am talking about. There are many who know a lot about the subject that cannot agree. Some say connecting a Faraday box/cage to a ground acts as an antenna others that it gives the EMT pulse the least resistance to go to ground.

I happen to believe electrons follow the least path of resistance and a Faraday box properly insulated on the inside with a ground is the most logical.
So you never had a physics class right? There aren't any incoming electrons to be sent to ground . Ever seen the Apollo moon landing, watched satellite TV or used a GPS? EM radiation doesn't involve the flow of electrons- it's just a voltage and magnetic wave. When the wave encounters a conductor it will move electrons in that conductor.

and no, a YouTube video doesn't make me doubt 50 years of physics.

BTW, I've tested enclosures under a 50kV/m field and it worked fine with no ground ( it can skew the test results).
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