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Old 07-15-2016, 07:09 AM
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cujet cujet is offline
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Originally Posted by 6556 View Post

Getting back on subject, while I'm sure restricting water flow could cause the motor to consume less power, it's hard for me to believe that this valve can drop start up current to 1 amp. The term "start up" current normally implies that this is the "peak current" and current is expected to drop to it's "normal run" value.

If the start up current has dropped to 1 amp, what is now the normal running amperage?


I missed where anyone claimed that start up current is reduced. If I did so, or even implied that, I absolutely apologize. Clearly, my 2HP well pump's start up current is unchanged by the CSV.

What has changed is the number of times the pump starts during use. This is a big benefit when operating "off grid" on generator power, like I do from time to time. I generally use my "Listeroid" generator. But I also have a commercial Subaru generator, 2 Honda generators and a cheapie HF unit.

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Old 07-15-2016, 11:07 AM
6556 6556 is offline
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Had to go back and look, guess it was a bit confusion on my part (perhaps you're a bit to blame too *L*).


Back a page you said this .... "Advantage: The well pump start up current strains my generator. The CSV limits the pump starts to a grand total of ONE, when showering solo or during other minor water usage."

First sentence you talk current, then next you said starts a grand total of one.


Just thought you meant "a grand total of one amp"
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Old 07-15-2016, 11:30 AM
Valveman Valveman is offline
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Originally Posted by MattB4 View Post
I have found that it is always more difficult to deal with people that are reasonably smart and do understand some basics. The inventor of this valve is of this camp. He knows enough to concoct what seems like a valid scientific explanation but all the time knowing it is being used to confuse those that does not have his level of intelligence. The key is to understand to look for contradictions and claims that can not be proven but rely on popular ideas.

To put it simply, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
To put it even more simply, extraordinary criticism of a patented, long established, well-proven, well-respected product requires extraordinary XXXXXXX. I have always found it more difficult to deal with people that are reasonably smart and think they understand some basics, but do not. MattB4 is of this camp. He maybe able to nail some boards together and build a house, but his incorrect assumptions of how pumps work are blinding him to knowledge that could be useful. He doesn’t even know enough to concoct a valid argument. The key is to understand and look for extraordinary criticism and snide remarks like “talk to the hand”. This proves that he relies on popular misconceptions instead of proven realities.

I didn’t start this argument and I hate to have to say things like that, but I will defend myself blow for blow when I know I am right. I get a kick out of explaining this to people who “think” they already understand all there is to know about pumps. I love to see the light bulb over their heads light up when they finally understand, which many times in usually not until they actually see it work.

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Originally Posted by 6556 View Post
I am not convinced that it's the frequency of cycles or some sort of an electrolysis action.

I suspect that it's the failure of the seal and drying out / breakdown of the grease, main culprit time and a damp environment.
You are correct. It is not cycling that causes ball bearings to go out. It is running dry after the seal gives way and the grease gets hard. I have a lot of larger pumps like this in my manufacturing facility. They have grease certs for the bearings. If I remember to grease them every 6 months or so, they last forever. Sealed bearings suck, to put it bluntly.

Cycling will damage the centrifugal start switch, capacitor, pressure switch, check valves, and is hard on the motor windings. Cycling can also break pump shafts, strip splines, and impellers.

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Originally Posted by 6556 View Post
And speaking of pump failures.. every automotive water pump I replaced failed due to bearings/seals. Guess they use cheap bearings too.

Just had a thought, I wonder if one of those magical impellers was used in an automotive water pump.. someone could make a lot of money!
Impellers in automotive water pumps are also centrifugal impellers and work the same way. And no the impellers do not wear because they are suspended on a shaft and do not touch anything as they spin. But the bearings have the same problem as any sealed bearing. Never seen a grease cert for an automotive water pump bearing. But if they had grease certs, they would not get to sell so many water pumps.

Automotive water pumps would also use less power if the flow were restricted. But the flow rate is fixed by the restriction of the engine, so it doesn’t vary.

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Originally Posted by cujet View Post
I missed where anyone claimed that start up current is reduced. If I did so, or even implied that, I absolutely apologize. Clearly, my 2HP well pump's start up current is unchanged by the CSV.

What has changed is the number of times the pump starts during use. This is a big benefit when operating "off grid" on generator power, like I do from time to time.
Thanks again cujet! But now I have to make another claim that Matt is going to think is absurd. A CSV can reduce starting current almost the same as any soft starter. If the CSV is in the almost closed position when the pump starts, the starting amps are greatly reduced. In your case the CSV1A is a normally open valve and you have it set at 87 PSI with a 70/90 pressure switch. So the CSV is wide open when the pump starts, and does not reduce the starting current.

With the CSV set at 87 PSI, if you set the pressure switch to start the pump at 88 PSI, as with an 88/98 setting or something similar, the CSV would be in the 1 GPM position when the pump starts, and the start amps would be reduced considerably. You might want to try that and see how your generator reacts.

Our 2” and larger valves are normally closed valves, which would start a 1000 GPM pump at 5 GPM no matter the pressure switch setting, and the starting amps would be very similar to using a soft start type panel. Starting a pump against an almost closed valve is very beneficial for a pump and motor.

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Originally Posted by cujet View Post
As an engineer, I have a difficult time socially. Most of it stems from the fact that people do not understand what I say. I'm reasonably articulate, kind and considerate. However, the vast majority of people really don't understand basic science. Not to mention something as simple as a pump with a regulating valve, driven by a continuous duty motor.

A very large number of people really do think they understand why things work. Nothing could be further from the truth.

In fact, most humans confuse social smarts and scientific prowess. They can, and will, argue a point Ad Infinitum, while completely misunderstanding the most basic of technical concepts.
I have the same problem, as you can tell by the comments from MattB4 and Rancher. I can’t count how many times I have had this argument in the last quarter of a century. It usually ends up with the engineer, or want-a-be engineer getting very angry and telling me, “I am entitled to my own opinion, even if it is wrong”. To which I usually reply, if you can read a pump curve, an amp meter, and a pressure gauge you will see that these things are indeed facts, and not just my opinion.

I do get a kick out of going back to old threads and discussions from years ago, like in 07 to 09 or older, and seeing how these same people have changed their minds. 10 years ago they were arguing with me the way Matt is on this thread. But at least I planted a seed of intelligence back then, because years later they say things like “amps will reduce when a pump is restricted with a valve”, “cycling is the worst thing for a pump”, and “VFD’s are not reliable and do not save energy”, which is exactly the opposite of what they said years ago. Apparently it just takes longer for some people to understand the facts.
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Old 09-30-2019, 06:32 AM
Woolval52 Woolval52 is offline
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I have a CSV on my well as well. They are the best thing one can do for a well pump (IMHO)
It's been 4 years since you posted this. Do you still feel the CSV is good? How long has it been in your system? My pressure tank failed and I came across CSV when doing research. I'm ready to install one here at my house. I love the idea of steady water pressure instead of the fluctuations. Thanks
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Old 09-30-2019, 07:20 AM
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It would be interesting to see honest follow up from people that bought this idea years ago and put it into practice versus the person that hawked selling the gadget. My simple water pump and pressure tank from 21 years ago is still functioning. Does mean the water pressure cycles from 30-50psi.
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Old 09-30-2019, 09:33 PM
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cujet cujet is offline
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Originally Posted by Woolval52 View Post
It's been 4 years since you posted this. Do you still feel the CSV is good? How long has it been in your system? My pressure tank failed and I came across CSV when doing research. I'm ready to install one here at my house. I love the idea of steady water pressure instead of the fluctuations. Thanks
I'm still using the CSV and 2HP, 3 stage, Goulds well pump. It's working as described. The pump simply does not cycle on and off all the time. Still very happy with the results.
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Old 09-30-2019, 10:09 PM
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I'm still using the CSV and 2HP, 3 stage, Goulds well pump. It's working as described. The pump simply does not cycle on and off all the time. Still very happy with the results.
So it has been running continuously the entire time?
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Old 10-02-2019, 11:21 PM
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so it has been running continuously the entire time?
:d: :d: :d: :d: :d:
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Old 10-07-2019, 08:17 AM
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Another 3-4 years has past. That makes a total of 27 years the Cycle Stop Valve has been making people's pumps last longer and deliver strong constant pressure to the showers. If you are the kind of person who doesn't want to know anything and just lets the local pump man do whatever he thinks best, then you are not a candidate for a Cycle Stop Valve. If you are the kind of person who thinks they already know everything because your pump or your uncles pump has lasted 21 years, then you are also not a candidate for a CSV. The only people who appreciate Cycle Stop Valves are those that take the time to educate themselves on how pumps really work.

Those that do not understand how things works will say stuff like, "So it has been running continuously the whole time?" NO, no, and no. And if you don't know how it works you shouldn't act like you do.

And just so you don't have to hear it from the "guy who hawked selling the gadget", hear are a few hundred reviews from people who have a CSV and actually know how they work.

https://cyclestopvalves.com/pages/reviews
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