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Old 11-04-2011, 09:56 PM
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Default Very Low Cost SHTF BOL's for Europeans



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If your are from UK or another part of Europe and are concerned about not having a good bol, there's a solution of sorts.

I live in Bulgaria and there are many many inexpensive places here, in very pretty locations.

I've lived here since 2006 and really really love it here. I think many people don't realize how nice it is.

In my village alone there are houses from 5,000 leva (approx 2,500 Euro) to about 30,000 leva (15,000 Euro). Most houses have at least 1/4 acre, which people here use for their vegetable gardens.

If you want to raise goats/dairy, not a problem. You don't need extra land for that because the shepherd/goatherd comes to take your animals every day, cost 2.50 leva per month per animal. I think the cows might be a bit more.

Most houses have their own boreholes for water (for the garden) as well as regular mains water.

In numerous villages there is great drinking water piped from the mountain aquifers into the village and this water is free.

The cost of living is the lowest in Europe.

The land is fertile and the weather/climate is good, there is a huge range of fruit and veg that grows here from figs, pomegranites, grapes to walnuts, hazelnuts, almonds, peaches, cherries, apples and truffles, sunflowers, wheat, corn, potatoes, etc.

The country's agriculture is not advanced like many nations, which is actually beneficial. There are lots of small farms with small plots, so there's a lot of biodiversity.

The Villagers are friendly, although quite set in their ways. They always "know better! They are also extremely hospitable.

There are several mountain ranges, with plains in between and we have the black sea coast. Nothing is very far away. In the summer you can enjoy the mountains and the coast, in the winter, if you feel like it, you can go skiing at Bansko.

It's a very beautiful country, sparse population, LOTS of nature and an abundance of wild life.

If you need help, let me know, I will do my best and help you find something you'll be happy with. I don't need money for this, I would love for others to come and enjoy it here as well, and it will also be great for a bunch of like minded people to form "loose" communities and pool some of their resources.

You can also look at Ebay UK, they often have low cost properties listed there. (Don't buy one without having seen it for yourself!!!) These will give you an indication of what's available.

You can either PM me or write your questions on this thread, I will answer honestly.

In the next day or so I will make a post on what you'd need to do to get a property here.

And after that I will write a post about the pitfalls to avoid and things of extra benefit, to look out for.
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Old 11-05-2011, 01:15 AM
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I had a favorite website that listed small properties all over the world, and really liked to see just how cheap some of these places were.

Bulgaria is one of the countries you don't hear too much from, but that is what you want in a BOL. It's good to see that things haven't changed too much there.

Small homesteads are where it is at for the future. A family can grow all they need on a few acres if done right.

How cool is it that they have day care for your goat! I miss my girls so much, but until I get back to work, I just couldn't afford to take care of them well. I pretty much gave them away, but was quite sure they were going to a place that would love them as much as I did.

Dairy goats rock!!
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Old 11-05-2011, 05:57 PM
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Well I read thru your post, researched, viewed on a map, looked at the terrain, looked at the GDP, Montly avg income (689 Leva) which by the way is $486 US Dollars!!!!! PER MONTH

Looked at houses, 1900 sq ft, 3.9 acres, 25km from Black sea, furnished, fireplace, NICE, $42,750 US

Looked at pics of women.

I would write more but got a flight out, one way ticket in about an hour, see you there!!!!!!



Damn near sounds too good to be true, in fact I am drop jawed. I see if I can scoot over there soon and check this out!!!!! Actually was supposed to meet wife on vacation, she is over in Europe now (pick her up at airport at 9:55 tonight, but a health issue that cropped up in the past two weeks keep me from flying, so I had to let her do her thing for 3 weeks. BUT worth checking OUT!!!!!!
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Old 11-07-2011, 05:39 PM
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Just out of curiousity, do you see any backpackers, or people with caravans in your area? I have always wanted to go to Europe and backpack around, but never worked up the courage. Who knows what the future might hold though.
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Old 11-07-2011, 05:46 PM
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sounds awesome.
how are the laws around self-protection-, as in laws on owning guns?
there are many factors to consider when selecting a BOL, but some of us don't want to be defenseless..
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Old 11-07-2011, 05:49 PM
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How do people feel about people from other countries coming over and buying houses and land?

Firearm regulations? Tax levels? Goverment interference?

Sooooo tempting.
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Old 11-07-2011, 05:56 PM
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Visited Bulgaria in 1999 and told myself I would probably retire there.

I stayed in Sophia and was able to get a 10 oz filet mignon with all the trimmings and a pitcher of Killian's for like 3 dollars, all served to me by some of the hottest young ladies my eyes every laid sight upon.

I am still trying to convince my wife to sell out here and go there, hopefully she will listen to me now.
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Old 11-07-2011, 07:32 PM
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Bulgaria is on my short list.

One of the main drawbacks for that location are the gun laws. They are defined as "restrictive". Basically you can possess them as an exception rather than the rule.

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/bulgaria

There is very little gun violence there but as a foreigner, you face a two fold hurdle in possessing them. On the upside, you can say your culture (American) attaches great importance to the possession of guns, which is true. On the downside, those rules are pretty nebulous when it comes to foreigners at all. And they have had further restrictions in the last few years.

Overall, it is a really beautiful place but some areas are seriously contaminated by poor manufacturing processes of the past. Buyer beware and be prepared to shell out what you need to yourself before you buy to test water, soils...etc.

I'd like to hear more from the OP.
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Old 11-08-2011, 01:22 AM
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Hi All, I suddenly see some responses. I've had to immerse myself in work for a few days and need to finish two projects today, but will answer your questions this evening my time.

And no, there's not a really a problem about foreigners coming in and buying property. People WANT foreigners to come here and buy property.

Like I said, I really really like it here. It is not "smooth and polished" here but it has a very large gorgeousness about it. There's so much available nature and it is so varied.

Anyways I ramble, I'll get back later. ask more questions and I'll answer them.
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Old 11-08-2011, 02:19 AM
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Good thing is that they are closer to subsistence living so won't fall as far as many other cultures. You can pick up a small farm and probably find some locals to teach you their farming techniques. Tractors are still shared there and you might even find some functioning wagons in the barns along with manual well pumps. Lots of gas appliances but not much local storage tanks on plots. Of course you can still find some wood-burning stoves and fireplaces. EMP won't do much except knock out the Internet and an incredible number of cell phones.

Bad side is the gun laws and corruption in government. Simply, you're going to have trouble shipping in your arsenal. As for ammo stocks, bring your own. Nothing like a Cabelas or Wallyworld on-hand to rebuild supplies. The government is notoriously inefficient NOW, so what it will be like after a disaster is a real question to ponder. Remember that you're not a citizen.
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Old 11-08-2011, 03:15 AM
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what sort of Visa or passport do you need ? immigration ? ETC i know tons of south africans looking for such a life
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Old 11-08-2011, 03:57 AM
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Just remember to pick an area with the lowest ammount of gypsies/roma. Theese folks will rob you blind! Theese people have never followed the law and never will!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roma_in_Bulgaria

I work with people from Romania. Their photos from where they are from are really beautiful!
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Old 11-08-2011, 08:03 AM
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bulgarian transport

bulgarian old boy's toy
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Old 11-08-2011, 10:54 AM
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Too cool! The countryside is so beautiful and green. Living here in the outback of Nebraska, I'm just not used to all that green vegetation.

I love the horse cart method of transportation.
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Old 11-08-2011, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by wilhelm View Post
Just out of curiousity, do you see any backpackers, or people with caravans in your area? I have always wanted to go to Europe and backpack around, but never worked up the courage. Who knows what the future might hold though.
It's actually an odd thing but there are not that many back packers or caravans out here. I think they don't have many proper camp sites here like in the rest of europe. People do take their tents into the mountains and camp there.

I live at the foot of the mountains, there's a lift that will take you up and you can hike around the top there, it's miles and miles of mountains. there's a lake nearby, more like a large pond really, there's a nice site for camping there. And like I said, there's various places with drinking water coming from pipes out the mountain. It's beautiful water from deep in the mountain. very cold.
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Old 11-08-2011, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by cruisemissile View Post
sounds awesome.
how are the laws around self-protection-, as in laws on owning guns?
there are many factors to consider when selecting a BOL, but some of us don't want to be defenseless..

You can own a gun, but you need a license, and in order to obtain a license, you have to take an exam. And I think you need to do a number of hours at the range (I'll double check that to make sure).

Bear in mind, this is not America and people don't feel the same way about guns here. Guns are for hunting or sport. You can get some very powerful airguns here and all kinds of other stuff, they have special shops. I understand the airguns here are sooper dooper strength compared to UK.
There is a process to go through to get s rifle. I don't think they have the kind of self defense type weapons here that you guys in the states have. I suppose when shtf, you can buy these things on the black market.

I have been meaning to go to the "gun shop" but not gone yet, perhaps next week I'll go with my Friend's husband and I'll let you know what they have.
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Old 11-08-2011, 11:32 AM
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How do people feel about people from other countries coming over and buying houses and land?

Firearm regulations? Tax levels? Goverment interference?

Sooooo tempting.
Bulgarians are very hospitable and have no problems with anyone coming to buy houses and land. there is lots of land. there are lots of houses.

Firearm regulations I kind of covered above, I will see what else I can find out.

Taxes are very low here. my property tax is about $25 per year for house and 1/2 acre land. Business pays 10% capital gain tax. Then there is VAT (this is all over Europe but as a business you can claim back some of the VAT). National health insurance is about 17 leva a month ($14) Internet connection to the village is about $15 a month. Electricity is very expensive here. I pay about $20 a month, my friends pay about $50 a month for electricity and water, but they have a lot of electrical appliances, freezers, he does a lot of his own building work and uses cement mixers and what have you.

Government regulation - I personally think it is much less regulated here than UK or Holland and USA. BUT, bureaucracy is horrendous, this is a hangover from the communist era. To get a document, you have to go to like 3 offices and you can NEVER just call and handle it on the pone, or do it via the net, No WAI!! And then at some of the official offices they have a person in charge of the line. I guess it gives someone a job!

There's very few places where you pay for parking, and you park any ole which way you want. people kind of make up their own rules here as they go along

In England if you want to change something on your house you have to get planning permission. Here, unless it's something really major, you just do it.
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Old 11-08-2011, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Moni1124 View Post
Visited Bulgaria in 1999 and told myself I would probably retire there.

I stayed in Sophia and was able to get a 10 oz filet mignon with all the trimmings and a pitcher of Killian's for like 3 dollars, all served to me by some of the hottest young ladies my eyes every laid sight upon.

I am still trying to convince my wife to sell out here and go there, hopefully she will listen to me now.
It's still cheap here, but you won't get a steak and whatever it was you drank for 3 dollars now. But my sister and family came over this summer and they just could not get over how cheap stuff was, especially food and eating out, and beer and wine and stuff.

If you need help convincing her, ask her to talk to me and I will answer her questions.
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Old 11-08-2011, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by ChristyACB View Post
Bulgaria is on my short list.

One of the main drawbacks for that location are the gun laws. They are defined as "restrictive". Basically you can possess them as an exception rather than the rule.

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/bulgaria

There is very little gun violence there but as a foreigner, you face a two fold hurdle in possessing them. On the upside, you can say your culture (American) attaches great importance to the possession of guns, which is true. On the downside, those rules are pretty nebulous when it comes to foreigners at all. And they have had further restrictions in the last few years.

Overall, it is a really beautiful place but some areas are seriously contaminated by poor manufacturing processes of the past. Buyer beware and be prepared to shell out what you need to yourself before you buy to test water, soils...etc.

I'd like to hear more from the OP.
yes, gun violence is very low here. It IS possible to get a gun and license (as per previous post but I will get more up to date information and also let you all know what is available)

Yes, there are some places with contamination, but like you said, this can be checked. And when you come and see the place you will see - there are such vast tracts of land with just nature, you can see there was no manufacturing. And by the same token there are some of the most ecologically clean areas of Europe to be found here. I will try to get more information for you on this, but from memory there are 3 places in this country where the air is some of the best in Europe, having to do with the mountain ranges and how the air moves through the country. In the old communist days, people came from all over the soviet union - here for the clean mountain air, many people with asthma and breathing difficulties came here to get relief. Also there are many mineral baths/spas that people would come to for cures for certain conditions. Many of the baths are dated but still operational. some have been made in to trendy resorts.
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Old 11-08-2011, 11:59 AM
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Good thing is that they are closer to subsistence living so won't fall as far as many other cultures. You can pick up a small farm and probably find some locals to teach you their farming techniques. Tractors are still shared there and you might even find some functioning wagons in the barns along with manual well pumps. Lots of gas appliances but not much local storage tanks on plots. Of course you can still find some wood-burning stoves and fireplaces. EMP won't do much except knock out the Internet and an incredible number of cell phones.
Yes, people live very simply here and can buy property quite cheaply.

Most village properties will need major overhaul to bring up to our standards, but even that is much less expensive here.

I don't know about sharing a tractor, but a guy will do (plow under all my weeds) my 1/4 acre back field for 40 leva ) about $30

In the villages almost everyone has a wood stove, and they cook with bottled gas or use both the wood stove and gas. They don't do fireplaces. Just woodstoves. Trucks come down from the mountain with logs, and you order by the cubic meter. My stove takes about 8 cubic meter for the whole winter, which costs about $315. They bring it to you, you can get it cut or uncut, and get someone to saw it down for you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ecocks View Post
Bad side is the gun laws and corruption in government. Simply, you're going to have trouble shipping in your arsenal. As for ammo stocks, bring your own. Nothing like a Cabelas or Wallyworld on-hand to rebuild supplies. The government is notoriously inefficient NOW, so what it will be like after a disaster is a real question to ponder. Remember that you're not a citizen.
Yes. There is corruption in government. This is undoubtedly so. Particularly when it comes to granting of contracts or anything involving large sums of money. It has gotten less and more controls have been put in over the past 5 years. When I first got here, people would pay the cops a bribe to not get a speeding ticket. That's not possible anymore. Also I understand bribes at the borders have stopped. But then in all fairness, I look at the UK and US and I see there is massive corruption in government. They just call it something else, I think it's "crony capitalism'.

I have mixed viewpoints on the statement that government is notoriously inefficient. At this point I think this is the case almost everywhere and I truly can't say it is any worse here than anywhere else. I think infrastructure here is very poor, although that too has improved. better roads. And personally, I think less government is not necessarily bad, depending on what takes it's place. At any rate, I think in many ways we have more freedom here in Bulgaria then in UK or USA. No one comes to check on whether I'm drinking or selling raw milk, selling lemonade along the road, growing vegetables in my garden. As a matter of fact, Bulgaria has joined the EU. One of the stipulations was that people are only allowed to make X amount of hard liquor once we joined the EU. This was a MAJOR sticking point here. All the people in villages (or most) make their own rakia and they make VATS of it. It would mean they could only make a few bottles of rakia and a few bottles of wine. When it got down to it, the people didn't want to join the EU if they couldn't make as much rakia as they wanted. It is part of their culture. So a special concession was made. It's a big deal here in the fall, people bring their specially fermented grapes or plums to the village still to make their "stuff"

also, They don't really have christmas here the way they do in the west, but they have something called "Collida" which means "slaughter of the pigs" And they have littler nursery songs about it too so in the month of december as you drive through the villages, you'll see lots of people doing their pig thing. It's a big celebration.
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