Class III fire arms. - Page 13 - Survivalist Forum
Survivalist Forum

Advertise Here

Go Back   Survivalist Forum > >
Articles Classifieds Donations Gallery Groups Links Store Survival Files


Notices

Firearms General Discussion Rifles, pistols, shotguns, scopes, grips and everything in between.

Advertise Here
Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Master-at-Arms 2nd Class Mark Mayo shot and killed by civilian BJJ_Grappler General Discussion 17 03-29-2014 08:18 AM
how much sand is required to provide sufficent protection from small arms fire? cmo1037 General Discussion 37 02-20-2014 07:52 PM
What to use as a self-defense weapon if MOST fire-arms are illegal? Runtime Firearms General Discussion 96 02-08-2014 11:41 PM
Fire by Friction class Sunday Chicago Vanishing Nomad Wilderness Survival, Hiking and Camping Forum 2 12-05-2013 03:46 PM
Class III fire arms. DocYoung Military Weapons Forum 173 08-31-2013 08:06 PM
USS Farragut & Russia's Admiral Chabanenko Udaloy II class destroyer joint live fire oxi General Discussion 4 08-22-2012 10:26 AM
688 Class Submarine on fire in Portsmouth BobMacnamara General Discussion 28 07-23-2012 06:08 PM
new england fire arms single shot pistol prototype davis Rifle Forum 16 06-09-2010 10:18 AM
Free Friction Fire Class near Madison, WI make tracks Events, Connections and Get togethers 1 04-26-2009 08:16 AM

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-23-2018, 11:15 PM
hanzy4200's Avatar
hanzy4200 hanzy4200 is offline
Always Loaded
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Southern PA
Posts: 2,114
Thanks: 442
Thanked 3,278 Times in 1,129 Posts
Default



Advertise Here

Why is AP ammo listed? You can freely purchase and own any AP ammo in any caliber under 20mm. At least in the "free" states....
Quick reply to this message
Old 11-24-2018, 03:58 AM
273andme 273andme is offline
Target Shooter
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: tx
Posts: 484
Thanks: 138
Thanked 535 Times in 223 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hanzy4200 View Post
Why is AP ammo listed? You can freely purchase and own any AP ammo in any caliber under 20mm. At least in the "free" states...….
its in the definition. not sure why 1 would really need AP ammo other than to say you have some
Quick reply to this message
Old 09-20-2019, 11:10 PM
hanzy4200's Avatar
hanzy4200 hanzy4200 is offline
Always Loaded
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Southern PA
Posts: 2,114
Thanks: 442
Thanked 3,278 Times in 1,129 Posts
Default

You need a form 4 for AP ammo and Dragons Breath? Better get that one on the wire, there's a lot of unknown felons running around....Who writes this?
Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 11-02-2019, 06:37 AM
hanzy4200's Avatar
hanzy4200 hanzy4200 is offline
Always Loaded
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Southern PA
Posts: 2,114
Thanks: 442
Thanked 3,278 Times in 1,129 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 273andme View Post
its in the definition. not sure why 1 would really need AP ammo other than to say you have some
There are reasons. This is a SHTF site. I suggest you give some 30/06 AP a try. It really is amazing stuff. Punches through engine blocks and 12" trees like butter.
Quick reply to this message
Old 11-02-2019, 08:34 PM
273andme 273andme is offline
Target Shooter
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: tx
Posts: 484
Thanks: 138
Thanked 535 Times in 223 Posts
Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by hanzy4200 View Post
There are reasons. This is a SHTF site. I suggest you give some 30/06 AP a try. It really is amazing stuff. Punches through engine blocks and 12" trees like butter.
1st its not a SHTF site its a survival site. I have shot 30/06 AP and you are correct it will punch though a lot of things I wont disagree with that.


I want to survive not shoot whole in perfectly good engine blocks. If someone is driving they are not shooting at me. If someone is hiding behind a tree chances are they are not shooting at me this affords a window for E&E

Next no one ever has said "ohh I know that sound thats an AP round!" if someone is shooting at you you get the effe off the X. It doesn't matter if it AP ammo or not.

Next if you cant see it you cant shoot it. given the limited capacity of typical 30.06 rifles. I could take cover and allow you to burn they few rounds off wait for a reload and GTFO or name a well placed shot because ill have some time. a smaller less cumbersome rifle is faster on tgt and easier to maneuver with.

I can carry more ammo and more easily acquire more ammo of different calibers in SHTF because lets face it you can only carry but so much. And if you sit at home your dead anyway. Movement is life.

30.06 has its place but I certainly wouldnt pick it as a SHTF caliber or rifle. dead = dead doesnt matter the caliber.

Just to reiterate this is a survival site, meaning the survival of my self my family my group etc. Its not a I gotta kill everyone shoot through engine block site. so you shoot at me behind cover car tress what ever it may me maybe you get lucky. since you cant see your tgt in the 1st place your just guessing. Im perfectly OK hitting you in the bicep, knee cap shin bone face or left foot and taking you out of the fight so me my family my group etc can SURVIVE.

Im also OK saying hes reloading after his 5 rounds or so and using that opportunity to beat feet and take some time to plan the next engagement to be on my time and terms if i so choose.

Once that contact is broken you no longer have an advantage with your 30.06 AP. I may take it as a challenge and stalk your position be patient and scramble the eggs in your hen house with a .22. You see .22 bounces around inside you and makes things a little more interesting.

Its SURVIVAL and the best chance of survival IMO is being smart, not engaging unless absolutely necessary being willing to meet the man upstairs to protect me and my family by any means necessary. The idea is to make it another day.

I learned along time ago everything in life is 50/50 whether is is/isnt, will/wont, so you have a 50/50 change at getting a good shot through some cover with your A/P ammo guess what i have a 50/50 chance of shooting you in the face while you reload, or 50/50 chance finding a way to get out of dodge.

So to each their own.

and IF it was SHTF since that what this site is all about lol why the heck would i want to shoot an engine block to what may possibly be the only means of getting out there. why not wait get a good shot through the glass and get some traspo that i know works and can get me out of where i currently am? doesnt seem the the smarted idea to me.
Quick reply to this message
Old 11-02-2019, 08:37 PM
Nomad, 2nd Nomad, 2nd is online now
Survivor
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Gulf coast and/or Nomadically
Posts: 33,923
Thanks: 34,024
Thanked 75,997 Times in 23,286 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 273andme View Post
1st its not a SHTF site its a survival site. I have shot 30/06 AP and you are correct it will punch though a lot of things I wont disagree with that.


I want to survive not shoot whole in perfectly good engine blocks. If someone is driving they are not shooting at me. e.
Their passengers might be. I've shot quite a few people from moving vehicles.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Nomad, 2nd For This Useful Post:
Old 11-02-2019, 10:59 PM
273andme 273andme is offline
Target Shooter
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: tx
Posts: 484
Thanks: 138
Thanked 535 Times in 223 Posts
Default

This is true, but most people cant shoot from moving vehicles. Again 50/50 either they will get me or they wont. but if someone is shooting at me form a moving vehicle Im not going to attempt to stand there and take aim with a 30.06 and my AP ammo. I highly doubt a driver with passenger shooting would be deterred by someone standing taking aim with such a rifle.

Disabling said vehicle does nothing to either break contact or eliminate the threat the threat. In fact I would bet it will increase the threat because driver is probably armed but focused on driving . When he no longer has to focus on driving he can now focus on shooting, thus turning 1 threat into 2 or more if there are other passengers that werent shooting. The avg shooter is going to be more accurate stationary shooter on foot than in a moving vehicle as well. A better argument can be made for taking out driver and or passenger and you dont need a 30.06 with AP ammo to do that.

But guess what either you live or you die only 2 possible outcomes so again 50/50
Quick reply to this message
Old 11-03-2019, 08:04 PM
Nomad, 2nd Nomad, 2nd is online now
Survivor
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Gulf coast and/or Nomadically
Posts: 33,923
Thanks: 34,024
Thanked 75,997 Times in 23,286 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 273andme View Post
This is true, but most people cant shoot from moving vehicles. Again 50/50 either they will get me or they wont.

with irons perhaps.
With a red dot from a moving vehicle, at targets in a moving vehicle (in training) there was a higher ratio of hits.


but if someone is shooting at me form a moving vehicle Im not going to attempt to stand there and take aim with a 30.06 and my AP ammo. I highly doubt a driver with passenger shooting would be deterred by someone standing taking aim with such a rifle.
the point is disable their vehicle and drive away out of range I believe.

Disabling said vehicle does nothing to either break contact or eliminate the threat the threat.
ummm..... Yes it does. That's EXACTLY what it does!



In fact I would bet it will increase the threat because driver is probably armed but focused on driving . When he no longer has to focus on driving he can now focus on shooting, thus turning 1 threat into 2 or more if there are other passengers that werent shooting.

no you dont, you drive away.

The avg shooter is going to be more accurate stationary shooter on foot than in a moving vehicle as well.
you feel free to get your life on your enemy lacking in skill

A better argument can be made for taking out driver and or passenger and you dont need a 30.06 with AP ammo to do that.
grill is an easier target, and one hit eliminates all your threats vs needing disabling shots on 1, 2, 3, or 4 harder to hit targets who may or may not be wearing body armor.

But guess what either you live or you die only 2 possible outcomes so again 50/50
JMHO, but shaped by training and real world.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Nomad, 2nd For This Useful Post:
Old 12-20-2019, 11:45 PM
hanzy4200's Avatar
hanzy4200 hanzy4200 is offline
Always Loaded
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Southern PA
Posts: 2,114
Thanks: 442
Thanked 3,278 Times in 1,129 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abiqua View Post
Be aware also, that having the parts to make something (say a short barreled upper for an AR and a lower, even if it is assembled to another upper) is viewed by the ATF as the same as if it were assembled into an SBR. You need to have your Form 1 approved and your tax stamp in hand BEFORE having the parts.
That's not true man. Every gun guy out there owns pistol uppers and rifle lowers. Unless you really **** someone off, or do something very stupid, this would never fly. Now you get pulled over with a 10" upper and a rifle lower, even separated, ye, that might cause a problem.

Considering the awesome "brace" options out there today, you are a complete retard to break federal law over a SBR. Do it legally with zero hassle or stamps.
Quick reply to this message
Old 12-21-2019, 12:14 AM
cannonfoddertfc's Avatar
cannonfoddertfc cannonfoddertfc is offline
Sheepdog in Wolf clothing
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: PNW
Posts: 2,578
Thanks: 4,437
Thanked 5,922 Times in 1,866 Posts
Default

You just quoted and argued with an eleven year old post...

Quote:
Originally Posted by hanzy4200 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abiqua View Post
Be aware also, that having the parts to make something (say a short barreled upper for an AR and a lower, even if it is assembled to another upper) is viewed by the ATF as the same as if it were assembled into an SBR. You need to have your Form 1 approved and your tax stamp in hand BEFORE having the parts.
That's not true man. Every gun guy out there owns pistol uppers and rifle lowers. Unless you really **** someone off, or do something very stupid, this would never fly. Now you get pulled over with a 10" upper and a rifle lower, even separated, ye, that might cause a problem.

Considering the awesome "brace" options out there today, you are a complete retard to break federal law over a SBR. Do it legally with zero hassle or stamps.
Quick reply to this message
Old 05-30-2020, 09:19 PM
hanzy4200's Avatar
hanzy4200 hanzy4200 is offline
Always Loaded
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Southern PA
Posts: 2,114
Thanks: 442
Thanked 3,278 Times in 1,129 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cannonfoddertfc View Post
You just quoted and argued with an eleven year old post...
And you just took the time to respond to it.
Quick reply to this message
Old 05-30-2020, 09:24 PM
hanzy4200's Avatar
hanzy4200 hanzy4200 is offline
Always Loaded
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Southern PA
Posts: 2,114
Thanks: 442
Thanked 3,278 Times in 1,129 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 273andme View Post
1st its not a SHTF site its a survival site. I have shot 30/06 AP and you are correct it will punch though a lot of things I wont disagree with that.


I want to survive not shoot whole in perfectly good engine blocks. If someone is driving they are not shooting at me. If someone is hiding behind a tree chances are they are not shooting at me this affords a window for E&E

Next no one ever has said "ohh I know that sound thats an AP round!" if someone is shooting at you you get the effe off the X. It doesn't matter if it AP ammo or not.

Next if you cant see it you cant shoot it. given the limited capacity of typical 30.06 rifles. I could take cover and allow you to burn they few rounds off wait for a reload and GTFO or name a well placed shot because ill have some time. a smaller less cumbersome rifle is faster on tgt and easier to maneuver with.

I can carry more ammo and more easily acquire more ammo of different calibers in SHTF because lets face it you can only carry but so much. And if you sit at home your dead anyway. Movement is life.

30.06 has its place but I certainly wouldnt pick it as a SHTF caliber or rifle. dead = dead doesnt matter the caliber.

Just to reiterate this is a survival site, meaning the survival of my self my family my group etc. Its not a I gotta kill everyone shoot through engine block site. so you shoot at me behind cover car tress what ever it may me maybe you get lucky. since you cant see your tgt in the 1st place your just guessing. Im perfectly OK hitting you in the bicep, knee cap shin bone face or left foot and taking you out of the fight so me my family my group etc can SURVIVE.

Im also OK saying hes reloading after his 5 rounds or so and using that opportunity to beat feet and take some time to plan the next engagement to be on my time and terms if i so choose.

Once that contact is broken you no longer have an advantage with your 30.06 AP. I may take it as a challenge and stalk your position be patient and scramble the eggs in your hen house with a .22. You see .22 bounces around inside you and makes things a little more interesting.

Its SURVIVAL and the best chance of survival IMO is being smart, not engaging unless absolutely necessary being willing to meet the man upstairs to protect me and my family by any means necessary. The idea is to make it another day.

I learned along time ago everything in life is 50/50 whether is is/isnt, will/wont, so you have a 50/50 change at getting a good shot through some cover with your A/P ammo guess what i have a 50/50 chance of shooting you in the face while you reload, or 50/50 chance finding a way to get out of dodge.

So to each their own.

and IF it was SHTF since that what this site is all about lol why the heck would i want to shoot an engine block to what may possibly be the only means of getting out there. why not wait get a good shot through the glass and get some traspo that i know works and can get me out of where i currently am? doesnt seem the the smarted idea to me.
Good Lord man. It is a tool in the toolbox. At the very least a good investment. AP isn't just for engine blocks. There's a reason the US military used it in great numbers. People tend to hide themselves. Having a projectile that will pass through barriers, trees, walls, body armor, has it's merits. You speak of stalking a property with a .22 but a 30-06 isn't "good option". As you said, to each his own I guess.
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to hanzy4200 For This Useful Post:
Old 05-30-2020, 10:01 PM
273andme 273andme is offline
Target Shooter
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: tx
Posts: 484
Thanks: 138
Thanked 535 Times in 223 Posts
Default

There is also a reason the us military stopped using it. Every tool serves a purpose. that doesnt make it a good investment. One doesn't need a 20# sledge hammer to hang a picture, its over kill. Additionally LVL IV armor will stop 30-06 AP. Which means you need good shot placement. So good shot placement with pretty much any rifle caliber will do. The only mitigating factors would be range. which begs the question if its a SHTF situation and im trying to survive. Why the heck would anyone engage a TGT beyond 400~500, and why the heck would you engage a vehicle?

stopping the vehicle doesnt stop the occupants and you just potentially started a firefight and an enemy force with superior numbers and firepower sounds like a smart choice to me. I think ill choose to live and fight another day.

But if you have it great if you dont there are plenty of other tools that are easier to find and easier to use.



Robert Carioto, 8 Years as a Commisioned Officer in U.S.Army,Armor Forces

"Well ,for one thing, the U.S.Army did away with the .30/06 a few years before it adopted the 5.56x45. It switched to the 7.62x51 and the M-14 http://rifle.By the end of WWII, advancement in powder let them produce a shorter round (7.62x510 than the .30/06, while retaining similar ballistics. This leads to a savings in brass and powder, both strategic materials. This also lets you have a shorter rifle action. Now the reason they changed to 5.56x45 is that they found out that both the .30/06 and the 7.62x51 were just to powerful for average combat distances. By switching to the 5.56x45 they had a cartridge that saved even more strategic material, the soldier could carry more cartridges for the same weight. The recoil of the smaller cartridge is more controllable , even in automatic fire. The 5.56x45 is adequate for the average combat distance of 400 meters. If the need to reach out farther, they still have the 7.62x51 and the M-14"
Quick reply to this message
Old 06-01-2020, 09:31 AM
mike in pa mike in pa is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: neP.A.
Posts: 2,259
Thanks: 4,386
Thanked 2,305 Times in 1,098 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 273andme View Post
which begs the question if its a SHTF situation and im trying to survive. Why the heck would anyone engage a TGT beyond 400~500, and why the heck would you engage a vehicle?
Are you serious? In that situation the perp or bad guy(s) might be hiding in or behind a car firing at you. The old AP rounds will go through the doors or trunk fairly easy and whack them on the other side.
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to mike in pa For This Useful Post:
Old 06-11-2020, 04:12 AM
273andme 273andme is offline
Target Shooter
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: tx
Posts: 484
Thanks: 138
Thanked 535 Times in 223 Posts
Default

What if this, what if that lol. What if the guy in the back of said vehicle you shot through the engine block grabs a .50bmg or and happens to have some AP ammo and has some training because you know, real world experience in sniping does exist. maybe the vehicle is a decoy and they are willing to risk 1 of their team to have you reveal your location to the guy they have up on the hill you dont see.

There are to many unknowns, what ifs, possibilities for me to risk my survival or my families survival because I chose to be stupid and engage in an unnecessary fire fight. that I could have avoided. Im not in anyway interested in going rnd for rnd with unknown advisory with an unknown skill set, unless I absolutely have to.

But hey, you do you Boo-Boo!
Quick reply to this message
Old 06-27-2020, 07:25 AM
slackercruster's Avatar
slackercruster slackercruster is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Born in L.A. - NYC is 2nd home - Rustbelt is home base
Posts: 2,545
Thanks: 3,376
Thanked 5,058 Times in 1,611 Posts
Default

I will tell you what AP is real good for. Defeating body armor. 5.56 wont cut it. You want high grade AP? Get Tungsten Carbide.

For the budget minded you can get nylon or Teflon coated bullets. It is not AP, but it increases penetration by about 35%-40% from my tests.
Quick reply to this message
Old 06-27-2020, 07:26 AM
slackercruster's Avatar
slackercruster slackercruster is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Born in L.A. - NYC is 2nd home - Rustbelt is home base
Posts: 2,545
Thanks: 3,376
Thanked 5,058 Times in 1,611 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 273andme View Post
What if this, what if that lol. What if the guy in the back of said vehicle you shot through the engine block grabs a .50bmg or and happens to have some AP ammo and has some training because you know, real world experience in sniping does exist. maybe the vehicle is a decoy and they are willing to risk 1 of their team to have you reveal your location to the guy they have up on the hill you dont see.

There are to many unknowns, what ifs, possibilities for me to risk my survival or my families survival because I chose to be stupid and engage in an unnecessary fire fight. that I could have avoided. Im not in anyway interested in going rnd for rnd with unknown advisory with an unknown skill set, unless I absolutely have to.

But hey, you do you Boo-Boo!
Huh, if grandma had balls she would be grandpa.
Quick reply to this message
Reply

Bookmarks



Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Survivalist Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Gender
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:34 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright © Kevin Felts 2006 - 2015,
Green theme by http://www.themesbydesign.net