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Old 11-16-2010, 04:16 PM
khanTD khanTD is offline
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thanks a bunch guys, i probly wont be able to upload pics because my digital is busted but ill try and keep you posted on what designs ill use and how its going, the idea of the riot sheild seems good and ill look into that as a side project,may come in handy. i was thinking of making armour suitable for the untrained masses, consisting of thicker plates in vital areas and thinner overlapping the gaps, with kevelar cloth on top and underneath just to make it more comfortable and just that extra tiny bit protective, being a skilled blade fighter i want to have a full range of motion, so the full suit while not very practical for what im expecting could still be very fun project.

as for my crafting skills not much to be said unfortuantly, i can use nearly all types of hand tools and light machinery, and only basic forging, luckily though i know a few people in that line of work that could help me out.

my knowledge of armour is only what iv seen on the internet etc so dont expect this to go anywere fast lol =S but ill put what spare time into this i have and well see what happens.

thanks again-KhanTD
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Old 11-16-2010, 04:19 PM
khanTD khanTD is offline
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silver - i dont have much faith in aluminium to stop many bullets, maybe a low calibre round from a distance, in the south east i dont expect to run into much gunfire, but there's always the possibility i suppose. im using aluminium because i already have a lot of it and its very cheap. for a bullet proof vest i would first strongly urge anyone to buy one =] as it has already been tried and tested. i personally dont think id risk using aluminium id say the extra for the steel to manufacture a vest.
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Old 11-16-2010, 05:40 PM
khanTD khanTD is offline
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sorry guys typo on last post i meant to say "id pay the extra for the steel to manufacture a vest"
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Old 11-16-2010, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by SilverSpLou View Post
sounds like a good idea. what would have to be done to upgrade it to stop hg bullets?
Use a completely different material. Aluminum is really, really bad against bullets. You'd need INCHES thick to stop most bullets, even handguns. It's just too damn soft for that.

I'm currently building an airplane out of aluminum. It's so soft that just moving it around the workshop or on a table, it gets scuffs and scratches.

If I was going to make armor for renn faires or comic conventions, I'd definitely use aluminum for the weight and ease of working. For any serious armor use, I'd use steel, kevlar, or pretty much anything BUT aluminum.
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Old 11-21-2010, 03:24 PM
khanTD khanTD is offline
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i put the first test plate inot a jacket, put it on a tree and tested it out, it hold nicly, the knives i used wouldent penetrate, but the pickaxe at full swing puts the tip through, meets a hell of alot of resistance though, i havnt tried the 4mm with the 2mm over it, might help. in terms of weight and flexibility the posistion of the main panals doesnt hinder me that much, i tried a short combat workout with the main panales in and it had minimal restriction on my movment and speed.
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Old 11-21-2010, 05:05 PM
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Ok, a few things here first the reason for the plate armor of the middle ages to stop being used 1) the advent of firearms. 2) blunt force weapons don't have to penetrate to kill, ie war hammers and battle axes were designed for this purpose.

anyone with experience fighting against some one in plate armor, knows how to defeat it. where they over lap you are vulnerable. Chain mail can be defeated by long thin blades such as the medieval stilletto.

Chain mail is the lightest and most flexible of the two, If Iwere going the make another Chain mail vest it would be out of titanium welding wire and tig welded closed, this would be the lightest strongest material to make a chain vest out of. If chain is not welded or riveted closed it will open under a knife attack. If you are wearing chain you will need a Kevlar Gambisson ( a padded under vest to protect you from the chain).

Other considerations for plate, it's damn hot in the summer You'll cook alive. It's heavy your looking at 30 pounds of metal to carry around. It's very restrictive of movement. even with plate you will need a Gambisson.

Chain mail is heavy a vest will weight about 25 lbs if made from steel wire, where you get more freedom of movement, you sacrifice protection.

With either one you are throwing away stealth, chain and plate is noisy to wear, plain and simple. You'll sound like a walking tool shed.

Both look cool, but they are just not practical, in our modern environment.
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Old 11-21-2010, 09:16 PM
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Default Another way to go is

Fashion a straight up breast plate and back plate.

Also I'd consider cuirbouilli...highly knife resistant if made correctly. Cuirbouilli is boiled leather.

There is a book I encourage you to get. It's called 'the Miscellany' by Cariadoc of the Bow, mundanely known as Dr David D. Friedman (son of Milton, economist). In it I learned how to make cuirbouilli.

Great guy, and great book.

The SCA, Society of Creative Anachronism, and specifically THAT BOOK has a lot to do with prepping. Much of what we do is 'get back to basics' like living without electricity. They do the same...they just emulate a period farther back in time to do it in.

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Old 11-21-2010, 09:51 PM
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A Lamellar coat may work, but I think what you need to look into is Brigandine. If you use a stretchy synthetic undershirt as a base and fashion the plates to resemble anatomic shapes you can likely even make it reasonably concealable.

It won't stop bullets, period.
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Old 11-21-2010, 10:13 PM
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I would try to determine what your Aluminium Material is 7075 T-6 is a lot stronger then 2024 T-3. Unless you think somone is coming after you with a machette, I would think 2MM (.080") would work just fine, given 7075 T-6 material is used. If shot with a bow and arrow, I would want 4MM (.160") at a minimum. Either way Good Luck!
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Old 11-21-2010, 10:59 PM
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Default My vote is for Kevlar...

I was thinking maybe ring mail, but there's better. I'd consider Kevlar laminated plates woven into a jacket of some kind. On the outside it would look normal.

Go for full torso, shoulders, and the outside half of your arms. Maybe add a somewhat large collar you can flip up for moderate neck protection.

Not something you'd wear all the time as it would get hot, but maybe keep in your bug out bag or vehicle.

If you go for a shield, incorporate some high powered LED's. Weight should be minimum, and you can blind anyone approaching you from the front. Old meets new.

Sierra Dave
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Old 11-22-2010, 10:28 AM
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Hey, heres a dumb question! Would some of the more recently made Kevlar motorcycle jackets do the same thing?

I am not overly familiar with them and just wondering.
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Old 11-22-2010, 02:47 PM
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Look into MX armor definately. I found some pics of other stuff too, for ideas if nothing else. this how the G20 roll.

And some other stuff.

Also on a side note Samurai used to wear quilted silk under their armor, the reason for this was that if the swords penetrated the armor the silk would not tear and would actually wrap around the sword and keep your innards from becoming your outtards once the sword was pulled out.

Just a cursory glance turned up that lot but there doesn't seem to all that much out there. I'll watch your progress with interest. Keep us posted.
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Old 11-22-2010, 05:43 PM
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plates 2,3,4 and four were also tested earlier today, in the prototype these rest on each eaither side of the sternum and the other two below that (then the plan is to over lap them with the 4mm thick, with the 2mm it basicly makes a breastplate except that its more flexible as the 2mm isnt welded or joined to the 4mm underneath but is kept in a different pouch on the jecket. just for anyone that just joined in on the thread, i know this wont be much use against an experianced blade fighter but i am designing for use against the untrained masses, for use when TSHTF. hopefully in conjunction with a riot shield, im talking about that in a different thread.
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Old 11-22-2010, 06:52 PM
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Default Free tip to the boards

I'm big into knives and Eskrima.

One thing i highly suggest is to make cotton lined, vegetable tanned and boiled leather cuirbouilli fore arm protectors.

Use thick silk as the middle layer. even if they get through the cuirbouilli its not likely they are getting through the silk!! YMMV of course(your mileage may vary)

Protect your veins!!! Anytime you get cut= shock.

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Old 11-24-2010, 07:10 AM
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I honestly think that you will be limiting yourself with the heavier armor if all you are trying to do is keep from getting cut. The weight of the aluminum plates may not seem like much to begin with, but with all of them in place together, they will get a little heavy. And, if you plan on wearing them for extended periods of time, fatigue will become your enemy as well as any attacker. In a knife fight, I would like to think that mobility is better suited as a defensive mechanism. In other words, being able to move out of the way and / or flee is a better option. With heavy armor on top of a fatigued wearer, mobility is going to be crippled and you may not have a choice but to get cut at.

Knife fighters: (I know that there are going to be those "one-uppers" who are going to try and argue the following...) How many professional knife fighters do you know? What I'm trying to say is that, yes there are a few "experts" on the subject that practice chopping at logs and stuff, but how many of those have actually been in a knife fight (and didn't end up cut themselves and / or in jail)? With that in mind, how many people do you know with the precision, under a severely stressful situation, can actually pull off a well placed launch of the blade and land their strike as it was intended, while going toe-to-toe with another using a knife as well? Think about that for a moment, then go back to the above paragraph on mobility.

Chain mail: It has been proven that chain mail is highly effective in stopping a slashing attack. I've even got a pair of chain mail gloves I use when filleting fish (that were purchased for fairly cheap at a bait store). But making a suit of chain mail can be tedious and very time consuming. I've made a suit using PVC rings before (which is a great chest protector when playing paintball or similar...) and, even with a material that is much easier to work with than metal, still took several hours to fashion.

Yesterday, I was repairing a hole in my chicken pen and I used hardware cloth to do this. Thinking back to this thread, I hung a piece up and slashed at it with my machete. It eventually cut through, but it took a few swings to do this. Then I thought, "modern day chain mail". I suppose with a good sized hardware cloth, that this stuff could be fashioned into a slash proof armor fairly quickly and effectively (with the right padding underneath, of course). It would also offer the advantage of a being lighter than regular chain mail, and be much quieter.

Defense of an attack: The primary area I would focus on when trying to make a slash-proof armor, is the arms. This is because when most people come under attack, their primary (sub-conscious) function is to protect the face, which is usually done by throwing up the arms. If the arms are protected from being cut, then a quick defense can be had while still giving you the option to move out of the way / out of the area.

Another excellent form of defense is to have a good offense (now where have I heard that?). If someone brandishes a knife, then you should brandish a bigger one (machete, baseball bat, gun, etc). That, in and of itself would not only give you a reach advantage if the attacker is dumb enough to continue, but may even give the smarter attacker second thoughts to begin with.

I would also like to think that if someone is going to use a knife to hurt you, that they are going to do so when you are not prepared. If they are intent on attacking you, then why would they square off, toe-to-toe, with you? The squaring off is usually reserved when the sneak attack is no longer an option. This means that you would probably have to protect your back, usually from a stab rather than a slice. This means that you should focus on placing your heavier, stab-proof, armor across the back, probably in the upper portion, as a stab will usually come from a downward thrust.
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Old 11-27-2010, 04:57 AM
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i would say if you want to make something stab proof and light you could find some fine wire mesh and use fiberglass resin/fiberglass matting. take the wire mesh and contour it to your torso, then use the mat/resin and if you contoured everything it would be pretty hard for someone to stab through it. think about how solid fiberglass is, and add the wire would take a ton of pressure to stab through it. i plan to make some things out of this 100 ft roll of kevlar we have had in the shop forever. see how it does against a couple pistols.
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Old 05-13-2014, 01:23 PM
TrollFaceTheMan TrollFaceTheMan is offline
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A couple of things...

1.) I am in fact a Black smith and can tell you that aluminium can be used for decent armor, but there is a few things... You can NOT heat forge aluminium like you could steel, or iron or almost any other types of Metals... Aluminum crystallizes at a high temperature and will explode if subjugated to a high impact, like a hammer blow...

2.) Even heating it to extreme temperatures can weaken it, so quenching is not a good way to harden it... But even if that wasn't the case, aluminuium is a Non-Ferrous and will actually get softer with quenching regardless...

However, Cold Hammer Pinging is great for Hardening the metal and shaping it... It works by repeatedly hitting the aluminium with a hammer of some sort, which causes distortion and Twisting in the Metals Crystal Structure, eventually causing them to break into smaller crystals... And that makes it harder. Quenching does the same thing to Ferrous metals, but instead you use heat fracture to break the crystals up.

3.) Aluminum Scale mail would probably be nice for aluminum, because if ever stabbed the scales like to turn in the path of least resistance, typically that results in a glancing blow instead of a direct stab... But in the off chance that somebody hits one directly, they crink inward and that helps to reduce the Impacts force...

I think with a solid, think aluminium plate you'd probably have no issue with someone able to stab through... But if you use Scale mail, always have something else underneath... Even if it is just leather or something... Scale is made for mobility, not protection... Though it can be good for both, it still is not as good as solid Armour...
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Old 05-13-2014, 04:20 PM
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Default want blade about shark proof....
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Old 05-14-2014, 03:40 AM
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Brigandine 15th cententury style. 2mm should be enough due to overlapping of plates. Possibly 4mm for the lung plates if your design has em. Heavy linen base. Push rivets through dont punch out the linen base layer. Have fun with the 1600 rivets. Not hard to make just a fair amount of work. Adept a pattern in cardboard folder stock first.
Handgun bullets? About 3 - 4 mm hrc 500 armor plate. Or about 1" of hdpe or umhwpe.
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Old 05-14-2014, 02:45 PM
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I always thought one of those heavy duty motorcycle vests with the built in high density padding would make fairly decent stab/slash resistant armor & it could be worn in public with no one being the wiser.
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