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Old 10-20-2019, 12:22 PM
Bobjr59 Bobjr59 is offline
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Who has a GSG Firefly in their go bags and what is your opinion on it for a survivalist pistol?
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Old 10-20-2019, 12:33 PM
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GSG Firefly? never heard of it. I usually carry my survival gear in the bag and the pistol on my person. Seems it might be rather awkward to be rummage through a bag for a pistol when you need it or worse have the bag and your pistol stolen.
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Old 10-20-2019, 06:59 PM
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The GSG Firefly was originally sold as the Sig Mosquito. Google Sig Mosquito for reviews.

In short, they seem to have trouble cycling anything but high velocity rounds, IE: CCI Mini Mags. Not good to have a picky eater in hard times.

I looked at them, the action was smooth as silk, but in the end I bought the Ruger SR22. It has cycled everything except .22 shot shells , which I expected. Literally 1000s and 1000s of rounds, of all types of .22 through the the little Ruger without a hick up. Clean it after use and it's 100% reliable. Somehow, no matter what other firearms goes to the range or woods, the SR22 finds its way along.

There are a lot of nice .22 simi autos on the market now, S&W, Ruger, Beretta 92 .22, Taurus TX .22, I'm sure I'm missing some here, but you get the idea.

Good luck with your search.
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Old 10-20-2019, 07:07 PM
Stinky Stinky is offline
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Not dependable in my experience.
Sometimes it would hang up and freeze when racking a unloaded weapon.
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Old 10-20-2019, 08:16 PM
Mr Parker Mr Parker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobjr59 View Post
Who has a GSG Firefly in their go bags and what is your opinion on it for a survivalist pistol?
Since it seems to just be the old problematic Sig Mosquito I wouldn’t bother, especially not for a serious need like a bugout/survival pistol like you’re asking about.

I never bothered with the Mosquito because enough friends had them and complained about them enough, same with the Walther P22. I do have a lot of 22 handguns, several revolvers and many more autos.

In the role you’re talking about the man Bluz is right, the Ruger SR22 is excellent in that role, very reliable with a lot of different ammo (have 2 myself), rather compact (concealing it post-bad day) and light. Other options would be the newer S&W M&P compact 22 (US made version, forget the earlier full size M&P, it is German made and a problem like the Mosquito) or maybe the smallest versions of the most reliable Ruger Mk series or Browning Buckmarks (both larger framed but do have short bbl versions). Also the old S&W 2213 and 2214’s. Out of production but mine are very reliable, mags are still made and again are pocketable. There are even more options but this post is long enough.

Fav. will be the Smith M&P compact (have 2 also) though. Not too expensive and a better trigger than the Ruger SR 22. Bersa’s 22 has proven a bit problematic for me so far, might not enough rounds through it.
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Old 10-21-2019, 06:39 PM
Bobjr59 Bobjr59 is offline
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I haven't had any problems yet with my Firefly but I do also have a Ruger Competition as well as a heritage rough Rider and my Kel-tec PMR-30/CMR-30 so I'm going to I'm covered
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Old 10-21-2019, 10:47 PM
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I have a Sig Mosquito. The exact same gun. Change in name only. GSG has always been the manufacturer.

Mine has been accurate and functions well on HV round nose .22 ammo from a few different brands. One of my favorite .22 handguns. I also have S&W M&P 22 and 22C models.

one caveat...There is a known issue with the slide breaking.

Mine broke and Sig only warrantied the gun for 1 year to the original owner and it no longer sells it. I was told the gun had reached the end of its service life. WTF???!!
I have no idea if GSG warranties this or for how long.

I had to replace my slide with a Firefly slide I picked up off ebay. Not cost effective but It is back to operational use.



A pic of the classic breakage point

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Old 10-21-2019, 11:38 PM
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Sell that piece of junk and buy a Ruger MK anything. Or a Buck Mark. Or a Smith and Wesson victory.

Any of the traditionally styled guns seem to work dead-nuts reliable. When you start to mimic center-fire guns they sometimes get persnicity.

I bought my Mk II used from a guy who had sat it in his closet for twenty years, still in the original yellow and black box. When I shot it, it was finicky, till I realized he hadn't even broken it in. A bulk box of auto-match later and she runs like a top.

All stainless steel, only thing not steel is the black plastic red eagle grips. Heavy, but she's dependable.
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Old 10-22-2019, 09:04 AM
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The wife to be used to have the sig mosquito. It cycled everything we put in it. Over 1000 rnds at least. Never a problem. It was pretty much plastic. And magazines were expensive. She sold it awhile back because she needed some money. She now has a Browning 1911 22. Which she loves as it fits her tiny hands.

I would stay away from anything like the mosquito and go with a ruger mk. Much more accurate of a pistol. All metal. Light weight. And can mount optics.
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Old 10-22-2019, 02:16 PM
fflincher fflincher is offline
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Mine is and has been a headache. Bought it as a new SIG. Poor trigger, ruined one receiver trying to fix that. Insides look cheap and fragile. Finally got my new GSG frame running, but trigger still sux. Got a bunch of spare magazines when the SIG was new.

One of my least favorite .22 plinkers, much prefer Walther P22 which is no whiz, but considerably more fun and reliable despite issues of cheap guts and tricky reassembly.

MUCH more reliable, sturdy .22 pistols include Ruger Mk series and Bersas. Not a fan of Buckmarks. No experience with other plastic Walthers and Rugers.
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Old 10-22-2019, 02:25 PM
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Ruger mark I, II, III, etc. are great 22LR pistols. Simple, durable and accurate, added bonus, in the event something does break which rarely ever happens. Ruger has great customer service department. On the other hand if you want a 22LR that will still be going strong after mankind has gone extinct get yourself a Ruger single six...
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Old 10-22-2019, 07:57 PM
fflincher fflincher is offline
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Different suggestion:
https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/t...ions-reviewed/
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Old 10-23-2019, 12:57 PM
Outpost75 Outpost75 is offline
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This is an older article, but still contains lots of good info:

A .22 Pistol for the Evader and Survivor

A .22 auto pistol isn't your first choice when expecting combat. But, if combat isn't your job, and you find yourself alone, in a hostile environment, your job is to get back to “the world.”

The purpose of a survival handgun gun carried by downed aircrew or clandestine operators is to neutralize immediate threats from contact range to 30 feet, to facilitate escape. That is all. In the words of Harry Archer, "If you stand and fight you'll never live to shoot them all." The rapidity with which a semi-auto , ten-shot .22 enables accurate, multiple hits, combined with low noise,muzzle flash and recoil, discreet profile and minimum weight and cube of "the package" mostly compensate for lower kinetic energy.

During WWII through the Vietnam and Cold War era Colt Woodsmans, and WWII-era High Standards were deemed the greatest natural pointers in the “Applegate method.” The user's attention must be "target focused," upon the threat, watching the bad guy's hands, evaluating whether he is friend or foe, being ready to either instantly disappear without notice, or to “shoot and scoot,” always with emphasis on speed.

We aren't talking "one-shot-stops" here, but precisely delivered double or triple tap head shots in two seconds or less. The gun is gripped convulsively and pointed "as naturally as if it was an extension of your finger."

Israel's Mossad is popularly credited with originating the concept of using a silenced .22, but they merely copied WW2 British methods and refined the hardware. During WWII Britain's SIS and SOE, were thoroughly trained in Fairbairn and Sykes (Shanghai Police) shooting methods.

When the US entered WWII Rex Applegate became a student of Fairbairn and Sykes. He brought their techniques to Camp Richie, Maryland where they were adopted by the OSS. Applegate’s influence remained strong in the black ops community throughout the Cold War.

The boys down at "the farm" in Toano never really accepted Cooper's so-called "modern" technique of the pistol other than as "good disinformation to have out there,” serving as a distraction from what they knew worked, having been proven in close combat and successful escape and evasion, many times. Having popular magazines reinforce the virtues of Cooper's methods was encouraged to reinforce that illusion in exactly the same way today that the canted “gangsta” grip is today. The cover story is that which is published and that the truth is always “protected by a bodyguard of lies.”

Among Cold War era clandestine operators Colt Woodsman's were greatly prized. High Standards of the WWII era shared the same favorable grip angle, could use Colt magazines and were more readily available. An expert pistol shot can bring small game to bag with an accurate .22 pistol at 25 to 40 yards with ease. A longer barrel increases velocity by 80-100 f.p.s., which improves hollow-point bullet performance noticeably, and the longer sight radius aids accurate iron-sight shooting. While four-inch barrels were favored for concealed, covert carry, six inch or longer barrels provided longer sight radius which aided accurate shooting when the target was camp meat for the pot.

A common carry method was muzzle-up, butt forward, with the hammer cocked and slide closed on an empty chamber. The gun is retrieved quickly from the pocket as easily as your wallet, by grasping the barrel behind the muzzle with thumb and forefinger of the left hand, grasping the butt as the gun clears the coat, trigger finger extended, pointing, as the left hand sweeps the slide back against minimal resistance, against the cocked hammer ( these days called “Mossad style” ) deftly releasing the slide and chambering a round as the left arm assumes the protective folded position across the chest, freeing the right (gun hand) to rapidly trigger a protective burst of fire.

An alternate carry method was the ancestor of today’s popular Desantis and Allesi pocket holsters. Parachute riggers would sew a simple pancake design using a salvaged top cut off an old pair of jump boots, lining with fabric from an OG 107 wool shirt or nylon parachute pack fabric, usually with two button tabs, commonly attached inside the flight suit, SV2 vest or coat pocket with parachute cord loops sewn into the pocket. When travelling in Europe back in the 1980s I was shown a holster of this type which had been used by a member of the French Resistance, sewn from an old felt hat, covered with tent canvas and using horn coat buttons to hold a FN 1992 Browning 7.65mm.

While 6 inch or longer barrels are preferred for improved accuracy and ballistics, they are harder to conceal. A common method was to drop the gun butt-first into a bag of pomes frittes, or an improvised tote made from a folded newspaper tucked casually under the arm. Jim Cirrillo of the NYPD stake-out unit used this method frequently on undercover assignments, substituting a box of Cracker Jacks, movie popcorn or the New York Post .

My “ruck gun” is a 1942 High Standard B with 6-/7/8 barrel pistol inherited from the late Col. Gregory Kalinzky.
Less known from his resume are his time with flying with Air America, Air Zimbabwe, and also as a bush pilot in Alaska. http://www.146thalumni.org/last_flight.htm

I received the pistol from Greg’s estate. When I got the pistol it proved accurate and reliable, but was thoroughly dirty. Detailed disassembly revealed at one time it had undergone complete saltwater immersion. It had been rinsed promptly in fresh water, then probably doused in JP or Jet-A. There was rust in crevices and blind holes, and brown residue under the grips and on concealed machined surfaces. Exterior blue remains good, original finish. After carding the internal rust off, installing replacement Wolfe springs, thorough cleaning, and reassembly, it resides in my “SR” where it now bangs an occasional grouse, or rabbit. but otherwise will remain there until my niece presents it to one of her kids someday.

My Sport Model 4-1/2 inch Woodsman was one of Harry’s “spares.” Harry was a big believer in redundancy and cached duplicates of essential equipment everywhere. I don’t think my Woodsman ever went on a mission, because it is too clean. It’s obviously a “parts gun” assembled on a pre-war 1940 frame with post war slide and barrel having adjustable sights. The target sights are nice, but lack the rugged durability I favor in a field gun.”

Over the years I've fooled with a variety of .22 handguns, both auto pistols and revolvers, for target and field shooting. While current fashion seems favor one or another variation of Ruger semi-auto, I've had my share of frustration which these. Out of the box, hand held from sandbags, Rugers average 1-1/2" ten-shot groups at 25 yards with standard velocity ammo of average quality. High speed ammo runs closer to two inches. Ransom Rest results don’t reflect realistic expectations of field utility because your own aiming and holding errors increase the "system error budget" more than inherent accuracy or lack of it, attributable to gun and ammunition.

I tested many Ruger .22 auto pistols off the Ransom Rest back in my bullseye target shooting days. While their potential accuracy is very good for a gun in this price range, about two inches at 50 yards from machine rest for a series of ten-shot groups with good standard velocity ammo, and 1.6" or less with "Match" ammo, the simple fact is that in field shooting it's a bit hard to carry the Ransom rest along with you and get Mr. Wabbit to cooperate while you set it up.

The Ruger trigger as it comes from the factory leaves much to be desired. Inconsistency of trigger pull causes fliers in your groups. Getting a match quality trigger pull with minimal creep, no hiccups and a clean break usually requires a trip to the gunsmith, and replacement of the factory parts with custom, after-market items.

If you replace any of the factory springs you may induce functioning problems if you use anything other than high velocity ammo. HV loads fall down in the accuracy department, so it sort of defeats the whole precision purpose. I have little use for high velocity ammunition because most of it is less accurate and too noisy.

Fixed sights are best for a field or “survival” gun. You need to spend range time to see which ammo is reliable and accurate, get a good supply of that and then zero the gun. Testing outdoors is best, because lighting on indoor ranges is different and will affect your zero. I recommend that fixed sights be zeroed to strike about 1 inch above point of aim at 25 yards. The Ruger adjustable sights don't stay zeroed unless you flood them with LocTite.

Today many users prefer red-dot sights. By the time you put military grade, rugged, weatherproof, reliable and high quality optics on a pistol you increase cost, weight and bulk significantly. Today's tiny red dot sights are big improvements, but you still want sturdy, well-zeroed, backup iron sights. For the non-expert handgunner, a compact, takedown .22 rifle doesn't weigh very much more and is easier for the average person to use than a pistol. Today's "full race Ruger" is much more bulky and less handy than classic "Target and Trapper" pistols of the 1930s and 40s, which were designed for the very backpack survival situations we talk about around the camp fire and plan for.

I recently put my ca. 1942 Colt Sport 4-1/2" barrel Woodsman through its paces. I tested it hand-held on sandbags, indoors at 25 yards using the factory iron sights. I fired five consecutive ten-shot groups with several ammos, then compared results against similar samples fired with some borrowed modern and older .22 revolvers and auto pistols which were deemed by their owners as "good shooters."

Auto pistol data below are averages of five consecutive 10-shot groups at 25 yards. Both Rugers were fired using a 4X Leupold pistol scope to do a better job of testing the pistols, rather than my ability see the sights! The High Standard Victor is a proven match gun used by a Master competitive shooter, intended as a benchmark. I shot it as well hand-held at 25 yards off handbags with my then 59 year-old eyes (today I'm 72) as the gun would do at 50 yards with the same ammo off the Ransom rest. So, that is the measure of truth and reality!

The High Standard Model B is 1942 production with 6-3/4" barrel which was a retired bush pilot's actual Alaska survival gun. I shot some old ammo from the survival seat pack that used to ride in his DeHavilland Beaver float plane and some new stuff.

The Beretta 70S is the ca. 1968 "Jaguar" model which used to be imported into the US. This is the lightest 6" barrel .22 autoloader I have ever seen, weighing only 20 oz. These also came in 2-barrel sets with 3.5" and 6" barrels. They are difficult to shoot accurately, but are quality guns if you can find one.

*Two High Standard Sentinel revolvers tested are both fixed sight 9-shooters found at pawn shops for around $150. These are ugly very serviceable if found in good mechanical condition which time and index well, without noticeable cylinder end play. I fired one 9-shot cylinder load in each per group.

**The Colt Officer's Model Match was made in 1959 and is a target grade revolver, a 6-shooter. In it I fired TWO cylinder loads, totaling 12 shots per group.

The Walther P.22 illustrates my disappointment with current offerings of compact .22 pistols. It is barely accurate enough for combat training on silhouette targets. As a kid I could shoot my Whamo slingshot more precisely than this!

Gun Bbl.Length Sights
Ammo Avg. ES(Ins.) [email protected]*

1942 Colt Woodsman 4-1/2" irons
CCI Std. (USA) 1.5"
CCI Blazer (USA) 2.0"
Eley Std (UK) 1.25"

1942 High Standard Model B, 6/3/4" irons
"Sterile Package Brown Box" FMJ Ball M24 2.0"
Canuck (1965) HP 2.2"
CCI Blazer (USA) 1.85"
Eley Standard (UK) 1.5"

HS Victor 5-1/2" irons
Eley Std. (UK) 1.0"
Eley Sport (Mexico) 1.3"

HS Sentinel R107 revolver 4" irons
CCI Std. (USA) 2.6"*
Eley Std. (UK) 2.3"*
Eley Sport (Mexico) 2.3"*
CCI Blaser (USA) 2.3"*
Winchester Super-X (USA) 2.7*

HS Sentinel R103 revolver 6" irons
Eley Sport (Mexico) 2"*
CCI Blaser (USA) 2.2"*
Winchester Super-X (USA) 2.5"*

Ruger MkI 6-7/8" 4X Leupold
CCI Std. (USA) 1.5"
CCI Blazer (USA) 2"
Eley Sport (Mexico) 1.1"

Ruger Mk.III 5-1/2" 4X Leupold
Eley Std. (UK) 1.25"
Eley Sport (Mexico) 1.25"

Walther P22 3.5" irons
CCI Std. (USA) 4"
CCI Blazer (USA) 5"+

Beretta 70S 6" irons
Eley Std. (UK) 2"

Colt OM revolver 6" irons
Eley Std. (UK) 2" **
Eley Sport (Mexico) 2"**
CCI Blaser (USA) 2"**

I haven't seen anything in new offerings of .22 handguns which is going to make me replace my old Colts or High Standards. If you search you can still find a “shooter grade” Colt Woodsman, Huntsman or Challenger on GunBroker for around $700. A High Standard Model A, B, GB, D, H-B, or H-D in similar VG to Exc. condition will sell for $200 less than a Colt. The High Standard Model B uses the same magazines as the pre-war Colt Woodsman. It is similarly trim, light and accurate, if you are serious about finding a .22 pistol for your survival ruck.

Every vintage Colt or High Standard .22 auto pistol I've shot, if not abused, shoots just these. A used High Standard costs less than a new Ruger. A good used Colt costs less than buying the Ruger and then having it ""tricked out" by a gunsmith. The classic trapper's .22 autos are sure handy in the ruck and worth EVERY penny!

Surprisingly, an inexpensive .22 revolver may shoot as well as an expensive one. If you can find one of the H&R Sportsman, High Standard Double-Nine or Sentinel 9-shot .22 revolvers, tight and in good mechanical condition, and cheap (less than $200) don't pass it up. You may be pleasantly surprised. Test fire it by cutting the corner out of a Kraft paper grocery bag, poke the muzzle out and fire a cylinder load through it double-action. Inspect the bag to see if any lead fragments cut holes when exiting the sides of the bag. If not, it's a keeper. Clean it well, and shoot GREASED or WAXED, UNPLATED ammo in it. Avoid plated, dry-lubed bullets in revolvers, because they lead up the forcing cone and cylinder throats, destroying accuracy.

Ordinary CCI Standard Velocity, CCI Subsonic Hollow-Point and Eley Sport are the best bang for the buck. Some batches of CCI Blazer high velocity and Mini-Mag shoot OK, but you need to test. The CCI Subsonic HP is the only standard velocity round I have found which expands reliably in my 4-1/2" Woodsman. Getting expansion from .22 revolvers is problematic because the cylinder gap reduces velocity and any cylinder misalignment causes asymmetrical scrubbing which accentuates initial yaw as the bullet leaves the muzzle.

In water-jug tests I have found that the same bullets which expand well from the 4-1/2" Woodsman do not from revolvers. In revolvers you are better off with solids. High velocity is OK if you can find a batch of unplated stuff that is accurate. I use the Hanned SGB die to clip the noses off to make flat points, which are more effective.

About 25 years ago I went through a succession of S&W .22 Kit Guns and K-22 revolvers. I didn't find any that would average consistently less than 2" at 25 yards hand held off handbags. A few were better than that on the Ransom Rest, but Dad's Woodsman put them all to shame when fired off sandbags.

So practice with your .22 handgun frequently from a field position, using the sights you've got. Use a Para cord lanyard to steady it unless you can get Mr. Wabbit to stay STILL while you settle the gun in your Ransom rest, yeah, right? 8-)
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