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Old 10-22-2019, 12:19 PM
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Default 15 gals of gas for a cigarette?



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People in Venezuela are getting their gas cheap...but is a cigarette cheap down there? This is what socialism and communism often brings. If the communist Dems get in office, will this be coming to a city near you?
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Old 10-22-2019, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albertjohnson View Post
https://apnews.com/0e1a2d6d0e5c41059737e54978ba3551

People in Venezuela are getting their gas cheap...but is a cigarette cheap down there? This is what socialism and communism often brings. If the communist Dems get in office, will this be coming to a city near you?
Both cigarettes and petroleum products will be banned if the Demmies come to power so it's a pointless question to ask.
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Old 10-22-2019, 07:21 PM
William Ashley William Ashley is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albertjohnson View Post
https://apnews.com/0e1a2d6d0e5c41059737e54978ba3551

People in Venezuela are getting their gas cheap...but is a cigarette cheap down there? This is what socialism and communism often brings. If the communist Dems get in office, will this be coming to a city near you?


You don't get how the Venezuelan economy works. It is mostly black market down there.

Also gas supply is cheap at face value but availability varies so it is about "Supply" not about cost.

Venezuela has "supply issues" the cost thing is too complex because people are buying with USD down there and they are inflated prices. Meanwhie the USD is being filtered to allow people to migrate out.

Its complex to fully understand but your assessment is all wrong as the government is not the only source for cigarettes.

People have barter and USD economies down there for trade the Bolivar is only used.

Gasoline is free no cost, but only when available, it is tipped based service so the people running the gas station live on tips
or gifts of people who are getting gas.


The government is not where people are buying from because the government has limited supply. It is smuggled stuff that is being sold for money. The government is supplying on ration cards because no one can afford to buy stuff with their legal salaries.


You don't get it.

People arn't earning salaries enough to buy goods down there, it is a totally different system. People are living on government rations and whatever they can barter for, or buy in USD on the blackmarket. Your assessment is nonsense.


All people need is some tobacco seeds to grow and make their own cigarettes te real issue is that people arn't being self suffiicent and that is why the black market is rebuilding the economy offering an alternative to govenrment price controls.


Its really sickness that the propaganda wants to paint the state as contorlling all aspects of peoples livelihood when all it takes is people producting their own goods and trading as VENEZUELA HAS 0 INCOME TAX. They just need to make it to have it. They are living on give aways from the government -- that isnt bad government, it is more than your government does for you.

My government is fine with me living in a tent in some woods starving to death, they offer no direct services to feed me or house me. What does your government do for you?

Venzeula doesnt tax its citizens.. .how much are you taxed by your government..

which one is the bad model?

reality check.

Which one is more socialist the government that taxes 50% of their citizens wealth or the one that taxes none and gives 50% of the governments wealth?

Venezuela is the one that gives rather than takes from its citizens.



Look to 1945 Tokyo to understand the economics in play in part. It is a black market economy.
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Old 10-23-2019, 08:09 AM
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William is right when he states that gas costs very little when it's available, so smart people hoard it and trade it when it's not available. Venezuela has some of the world's largest oil reserves, thus the reason they were the richest country in S America until they adopted a socialist economy. Gov't run production means it's produced inefficiently which causes shortage. Gov't price fixing means there's no free market to counter the effects of under-production, so chronic shortages are the norm despite low prices.

My grandfather spend the last year of WWII working on a prison farm near Gdansk, Poland after being captured at Anzio. They received Red Cross care packages from time to time and each package contained a pack of cigarettes. The people who didn't smoke were well nourished & clothes because they were able to trade their cigarettes for food and clothing.

People who smoke/dip are seriously disadvantaged. It's no secret that it's harmful and the addiction is ridiculously powerful. Powerful enough that smokers are willing to trade necessities for it. Addiction and a survivalist mindset don't go together.
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Old 10-23-2019, 08:39 AM
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Just make sure it's not a lit cigarette when you do the trade.
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Old 10-23-2019, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
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Which one is more socialist the government that taxes 50% of their citizens wealth or the one that taxes none and gives 50% of the governments wealth?

Venezuela is the one that gives rather than takes from its citizens.
You're missing the point.

You claim that Venezuela doesn't take from their citizens just because they don't have an income tax. I wonder if all those farmers and store owners who had their livelihoods nationalized would agree with your logic.

There's a very clear correlation between Venezuela being a prosperous society when they practiced free market economics and a spiral into poverty when socialists came to power and started nationalizing everything. A black market economy is a universal result of a gov't run economy because gov't run economies don't work. The black market economy is simply an underground free market that has to operate on a small scale when gov't doesn't allow it. Here in the US, the same concept can be applied to things like the drug trade and prostitution.
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Old 10-23-2019, 09:37 PM
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Well said Not_PC. He DID miss the point. . . as do all socialists.

I feel for the Venezuelan people; good people misled and done wrong.
They're trying to do the same thing in the USA. "Those that don't know their history …"
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Old 10-23-2019, 10:54 PM
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My two cents...

"You're missing the point.

You claim that Venezuela doesn't take from their citizens just because they don't have an income tax. I wonder if all those farmers and store owners who had their livelihoods nationalized would agree with your logic.

There's a very clear correlation between Venezuela being a prosperous society when they practiced free market economics and a spiral into poverty when socialists came to power and started nationalizing everything."

You left out...

The reason the socialists were put in power is the Socialists made promises to the less fortunate. They told the poor the reason they were poor was not their fault and shifted the blame onto the rich and the foreign corporations taking their country's wealth. Upon achieving power the confiscation of foreign assets, wealth redistribution and nationalization took place.

And surprise, surprise, surprise the wealth was squandered and things are far far worse for everyone; let me repeat that; for eveyone. The poor are starving, the middle class that stayed are starving, and the rich either left or lost their business to confiscation. Takers only know how to take, not make.
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Old 10-24-2019, 11:12 AM
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I honestly wonder if William Ashley is trolling for giggles or he honestly believes what he's typing. I don't care enough to spend the time reading through his post history.

All socialists miss the point, but he's doing it in a different way. Entitled socialists here usually try to distance Venezuela from their ideology by saying "Venezuela is terrible because it's a dictatorship, not because it's socialist". They fail to understand that all socialist countries morph into dictatorships because that's inevitable when you give a gov't that much control. It's really dumb to say "I hate Trump, and I want a more powerful gov't that controls healthcare, education & the economy".

If he's not a troll, he's the first leftist I've encountered that tries to argue that Venezuela has a good gov't. It's pretty much the lamest argument I've encountered in a long time. Even Sean Penn, Bernie Sanders & Michael Moore no longer praise Venezuela.

The only good thing about Venezuela (& N Korea) is they're doing a bang-up job at preventing obesity.
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