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Old 06-27-2019, 11:02 AM
V. Berlioz V. Berlioz is offline
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Originally Posted by omegaman13 View Post
People get hung upon the multiple hit capability. If you get hit by more than 6 M80 (or any type of round really) you're going to wish you were dead.... regardless of whether it penetrated or not.
I'm afraid that's also far from the truth. Military and NIJ Standards alike test for what is called backface signature on the plate. This is the indentation made by the plate onto a standardized backing medium. The US Military and NIJ have agreed for quite some time that the upper limit is 44mm for every shot in a multi-hit test. This ensures that all shots will only deliver an acceptable amount of Behind Armor Blunt Trauma to the guy wearing the plate.

The shattering effect of a ceramic works as a means to capture energy, but well-designed Level III ceramic plates only shatter in a limited sub-2" area by design. This is to ensure that the plates will meet the six fair hit requirement of the Level III test. Some plates, like Cercom's CER-EMH, can do ten with tighter shot spacing. Others can do twelve or even twenty. In a similar regard, here's a paper I like to cite discussing behind armor blunt trauma.

https://jramc.bmj.com/content/jramc/147/1/87.full.pdf

Here's a quote from it in reference to 1996-era body armor.
"• the BABT injury potential of defeated
high-energy bullets (i.e. 12.7mm calibre)
was significant
;
that of 7.62 mm bullets was largely
dependent on the armour design
;
there was no evidence of significant BABT
injury from 5.56 mm military bullets.
"

Many years have passed since then and technology has only improved. Armor design means everything, especially in the multi-hit arena. Here's a picture of a "LIBA" plate that was worn by an IDF Commando operating in the Golan Heights in 2002. https://imgur.com/HkvWT35

He was struck fifteen times by AK fire and only had a small bruise to show for it.
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Old 06-27-2019, 11:22 AM
V. Berlioz V. Berlioz is offline
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I also have a problem with a company selling body armor as “bulletproof”.
In the historical sense, the term bulletproof does not actually mean what most people think it means, which is that a bulletproof item is totally immune to any bullet. See Bashford Dean's 1920 "Helmets and Body Armor in Modern Warfare", a PDF of which is available here: http://www.muraditutti.it/biblioteca...rn-Warfare.pdf

Historically, "proof" means that a piece of armor has been tested and thus proven against a certain type of threat. Thus, historical armor typically fell into things like "half-proof" or "proof" categories, the former less protective than the latter. Threat Levels, like NIJ Level III and NIJ Level IV, are modern counterparts to these historical levels of proof. All that bulletproof actually means is that the item is advertised as proven against a certain threat, rendering it an acceptable term... technically.
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Old 06-27-2019, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Nomad, 2nd View Post
We were told we'd get new SAPI'S BEFORE deployment.... So we beat the shot out of them at 29 palms.

We weren't.

Pretty good number of our boys took x39, x54, and flack to the plates.
All held up.

Not saying yours didn't do what you say it did.... But I'll wear ceramics without comcern.

If they take a hit (round) That's why I've got like 9 sets....
I will wear a ceramic all day (still do sometimes) but I can get it replaced. Once the SHTF, that wont be an option for long.

For the individual that doesn't wear it now, but wants it in the preps, I still recommend steel. The mention of taking multiple hits doesn't take into account that it may get hit multiple times over multiple engagements. Speaking post-SHTF, just because it took a round doesn't mean I am leaving it at home the next time I have to go into danger. If it isn't shattered, I can wear it again. This is especially true if I couldn't afford to buy multiple replacements before the SHTF.
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Old 06-30-2019, 08:03 AM
vashshadow vashshadow is offline
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So as someone on a budget looking for steel plates which way should I go level 3 or level 3+? I mean sure i could try and save up more and get the lightweight 3+ but in my area I'm not sure if 3+ would be needed.
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Old 06-30-2019, 12:43 PM
V. Berlioz V. Berlioz is offline
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So as someone on a budget looking for steel plates which way should I go level 3 or level 3+? I mean sure i could try and save up more and get the lightweight 3+ but in my area I'm not sure if 3+ would be needed.
III+ is not an official rating and varies from manufacturer to manufacturer. For steel plates, it usually means protection from M193 up to 3,100-3,150 FPS. If you have any .223 presence in your area, then you may want to seriously consider the III+.

Do consider saving up for ceramic plates though. Spall and inconsistent performance are not steel problems that just going up to III+ will solve.
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Old 07-02-2019, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vashshadow View Post
So as someone on a budget looking for steel plates which way should I go level 3 or level 3+? I mean sure i could try and save up more and get the lightweight 3+ but in my area I'm not sure if 3+ would be needed.
The truth of the matter is, you just don't know. Or you could step out the door in the most expensive ceramic armor available, and get hit by a car or a meteorite or lightning. Or, you could take a shot right between the eyes, for that matter. You can't prepare for every single possible scenario, and body armor is one of those things that you may never end up needing. In other words, if you are on a strict budget, don't let the up-charge from Level III to III+ break the bank and prevent you from affording other critical items. On the other hand, if you're pretty well squared away with other purchases, even a marginal upgrade might prove to be worth it somewhere down the road.

I had already chosen IIIA for concealable protection against more mundane, realistic threats in locations I routinely go to. Once the opportunity presented itself, I added a plate carrier with Level III+ steel plates for post-SHTF scenarios in which concealment is no longer a concern and I anticipate any opposition to be at least as well-armed as I am. However, the cost of going up to ceramic plates was going to be problematic, so I opted to save money by sticking with steel, and putting a little bit more towards additional threat protection. Either way, I can't afford spare plates, at least not until some other needs are addressed.

Just remember this saying: Perfect is the enemy of good.
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Old 07-02-2019, 07:03 PM
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Just FYI, CATI armor has a 25% off code for the fourth. Use code "1776" . A set of level 3 plates and a condor sentry carrier comes out to 92 bucks. It's a stellar deal. A higher level carrier (I think it's the condor mopc) with front, back, and side plates comes out to just under 150. I'm not a rep for them or anything, just figured I'd pass it along, as it's the lowest I've ever seen the sentry kit go.

Spartan armor is 20% off site wide as well, but they are a bit pricier than most to begin with.
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Old 09-30-2019, 08:53 PM
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Default Level IV Body Armor

I found this through the interwebs today. Thought I would pass it along.
Level IV body armor 10"x12" ceramic plates for $135 each. I do not have any affiliation with this company. Website says they are made in Centerville, Iowa.
I'm planning on ordering some soon.
http://rmadefense.com/product/level-...te-model-1155/
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Old 10-01-2019, 12:14 AM
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ran across those plates a few weeks ago, looks good
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Old 10-01-2019, 05:53 AM
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I'd do some serious analysis on likely threats in your area, before dropping any coin on Lvl IV. Level III STs will cover the vast majority of likely threats for most of us, and will save you a ton of weight.

I own some LVl IV, but only because my PD issued them. I haven't used them, ever. I default to my personal III Sts.
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Old 10-01-2019, 04:32 PM
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If you're actually training in Level IV plates, you're more likely to die from a heat stroke or blow out your knees...just for some extremely low probability of being shot by AP ammo? No thanks.

I want the lightest Level III+ plates that will stop 855. I have no desire to wear 16+pounds of armor.

ROCK6
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Old 10-01-2019, 05:06 PM
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I picked up a set of AR500 Level III buy one and get one free recently. 65 bucks per set plus tax/shipping. I have numerous sets of III, III+, and IV ceramics and steel and several carriers. Lots of setups for stationary or mobile.

One has to assess factors such as ability and needs (e.g. mobile versus stationary defense). Since .3006 and AP ammo (5.45) exists everywhere, it's impossible to "predict your threats."

Also, how much coverage is needed/considered?

More reasonable to predict your needs on stationary (heavy/better) versus mobile (light weight with some sacrifices).

But the 8 lb x 2 plates for 16 lbs are not significantly more than the 3lb x 2 plates for 6 lbs. A net savings of 10 lbs spread among the upper body isn't "knee blow out" category for an adult in good health.

The long-term advantages of steel are cost (buy more or different armor or equipment, such as a helmet with the costs savings), durability (multi-hit, drop damage proof), and longevity (steel is forever, versus ceramics and polymers which break down in a decade or two). Considering there's at least some likelihood of body armor bans, longevity is a serious consideration.

Again, 10 more pounds of armor is negligible IMO given the durability, longevity, and costs considerations.
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Old 10-01-2019, 05:49 PM
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Eh... NM point buying plate for SHTF unless your getting level IV!
I have some ceramic and just bought some high quality steel from spartan.
The ceramic is better for weight but also have to think about the fact that your probably going to break a rib if you get shot and its going to knock you down and you'll be out of the fight. Ceramic works for the army cause they have more plates and lots of back up.
I'd say go with quality steel even though its heavier. That said I do have 2 sets of ceramic.
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Old 10-01-2019, 06:13 PM
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I already have steel plates. I'm getting these too.
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Old 10-01-2019, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leadcounsel View Post
I picked up a set of AR500 Level III buy one and get one free recently. 65 bucks per set plus tax/shipping.
Where'd you find that????

Asking for a friend.
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Old 10-01-2019, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Surviving Suburbia View Post
Where'd you find that????

Asking for a friend.
Last month's promo. Might still be going on. Wait time was about a month.
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Old 10-01-2019, 11:00 PM
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Those buy one get one free plates were flat plates. Not even single curve. No thanks.
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Old 10-01-2019, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by AK_guy View Post
Those buy one get one free plates were flat plates. Not even single curve. No thanks.
False. I had the option of flat or curve.

I chose flat. I prefer flat plates for my rear plates anyway, so I swapped out some curved rear plates on other sets with flat plates. Worked out great! 4 Level III AR500 plates for around $40 each with shipping and tax. VERY happy...
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Old 10-02-2019, 09:20 AM
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FWIW, the BOGO sale being discussed appears to have ended
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Old 01-30-2020, 12:05 PM
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Default Plate Carrier - About That Time

Need to get a plate carrier and looking for something minimal, that I can throw on under a jacket.

Looking at the Crye Precision JPC. Pretty minimal and the front pouch houses 3 mags, eliminating the need for another pouch on the front.

As for plates, was looking at RMA. Seem reasonable priced and gets decent reviews.

Any advice would be appreciated. I plan on never wearing and in the event I do, won’t be often. Thanks
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