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Old 08-22-2019, 10:39 PM
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Default Nitride barrels ,opinions



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I have always been a chrome bore guy.To me an ar15 should be Chrome bore based upon what happened without the originally specified chrome components in Vietnam .If shtf for any length of time the weapon would be exposed to humid damp conditions.It appears from what I have read unless you plan on doing mag dump galore which will cause off gassing if the nitride .Nitride is better barrel protection from the elements then Chrome and holds up better then phosphate,Parkerized or Cericoat for the exterior barrel finish because it bonds into the steel .What are your thoughts and experiences about this.Is nitride hype or a great finish for shtf or teotwawki.
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Old 08-22-2019, 11:07 PM
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Nitriding is used in the cylinders of aircraft engines, as I recall it hardens the walls and makes them resist wear. It isn’t a plating it’s penetrates the steel.
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Old 08-23-2019, 12:09 AM
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Chromed barrels weren’t the issue, the chambers were.
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Old 08-23-2019, 12:25 AM
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True ,I should have clarified that better I assumed when I mentioned specified components ,which also included the bolt and key I covered that .My bad
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Old 08-23-2019, 03:37 AM
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I use melanite (a nitride treatment) parts for all the ARs I build. I think it’s superior treatment to chrome in terms of wear and parkerizing in terms of finish protection.
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Old 08-23-2019, 07:13 AM
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Just considering barrel life, chrome will last twice as long.
About 40k plus rounds chrome
About 20k plus rounds for nitride
Based on the cost, there is not a huge difference, but in survival situations, it may be harder to swap out a barrel.
I have both, and I will use both
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Old 08-23-2019, 08:06 AM
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Do most preppers own enough rounds for a specific firearm to shoot the barrel out?

20-40K rounds is A LOT for a non competition shooter. Most people shoot much less than 1000 rounds a year let alone 1000 rounds in the same firearm. That would be 20-30+ years of ammo before there would be a need for a barrel change.

Wouldn't firing pins, bolts and extractors be a larger concern.
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Old 08-23-2019, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0002S View Post
Do most preppers own enough rounds for a specific firearm to shoot the barrel out?

20-40K rounds is A LOT for a non competition shooter. Most people shoot much less than 1000 rounds a year let alone 1000 rounds in the same firearm. That would be 20-30+ years of ammo before there would be a need for a barrel change.

Wouldn't firing pins, bolts and extractors be a larger concern.
IF I were to start pulling everything into a few containers thanks to the recent garage cleanup, I have every bit of 20K sticks of .223 brass if not more. As a competition shooter, I will shoot 5K rounds per year out of my service rifle. Where I, as a competitive shooter see degradation in accuracy, is at the long lines (500/600) with the specialty bullets. They start to wander a bit. Even on the 200/300 yard lines groups won't hold as tight when a stainless steel barrel (Krieger, Douglas, etc.) starts getting up around 6500+ rounds. Granted, there are a lot of variables to consider such as how hot the loads are and powder selection. For the non-competitive shooter, a 1-1/2-2MOA group may be sufficient. When results are frequently decided by scores and quite often X-counts, anything greater than 1MOA and a top shooter is looking at a barrel replacement.

Back on point, the average prepper here is not going to notice the difference and with my prepper hat on, I've a couple of melonite govt. profile barrels for just that purpose. The XTC service rifles will be pressed into a slightly different role.

As far as the consumable parts you list, I'm good there as well.
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Old 08-23-2019, 10:38 AM
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Chrome lined is better for a barrel, IMO
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Old 08-23-2019, 12:36 PM
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I don't have any A/R's but all of the barrels are chrome-lined on my AK's, however, most people will never fire enough rounds to shoot out a barrel even though they may have the ammo because a lot of people stock pile ammo for a lifetime of shooting (myself included) in the event that people who haven't stocked-up panic buy and create a shortage, or, the communists pass more infringements on the 2nd amendment regarding ammo.

...and, it would be nothing short of a miracle that anyone would be able to go through enough ammo to shoot out a barrel whether its chrome-lined or melonited in a SHTF type scenario as they would likely parish long before that was even a possibility.
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Old 08-23-2019, 01:48 PM
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Round counts before accuracy degradation for most, isn't going to be as vastly different between nitride and chrome lining, as is commonly thought. Most testing has revolved around extreme full auto military use. That kind of use breaks other things as well. Many believe they require exactly what the US Mil has. While we can learn a lot from "Mil Spec", everything they do doesn't necessarily translate to best for your needs, YMMV.

Several barrel manufacturers that do both, are seeing much more similar performance between the two. Quality of manufacturing and process, is probably far more important to barrel life.

Quote:
Historically the decision between finish options has been dictated by a choice between durability or accuracy potential. Thanks to modern advancements in barrel finish technology offered by Criterion Barrels, picking one or the other will no longer be necessary.

Criterion Barrels

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Which is more accurate?

Both can be precise, but Nitride will always be more accurate all things being equal. Nitride “locks in” the bore, chrome will add material to it. Chrome providers have gotten very good at this over the years, the adhesion of chrome is not perfect and there will be a small degradation in accuracy, though it may not be noticed. This is mitigated somewhat by those electropolishing, but one cannot perfectly plate chrome.

Which will give me a longer barrel life?

Assuming both are 4150 steels and shot semi-auto (even spirited semi auto), we have found both have very similar round counts before we see degradation of accuracy. If firing cyclic full-auto fire through extreme duty cycles, chrome will have an advantage.

Which has better corrosion resistance?

Nitride, but given enough time and exposure, Nitride will corrode as well. Nitriding barrels provides a massive gain in corrosion resistance, but no process is 100% rust-proof. Faxon always recommends the barrel is cleaned and dried as needed. A little oil doesn’t hurt, either.

Faxon Barrels
A replacement barrel, or even a complete upper, can be purchased for around the price of a case of ammo. If you haven't worked that into your budget, you likely haven't put away enough ammo to wear out anything either.

For the uses that are being discussed on this forum, I think it's a moot point. Either will serve just fine.


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Old 08-23-2019, 08:24 PM
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Most of what I have read says that nitride is better in terms of accuracy and barrel life as it’s not a coating which can effect accuracy and is harder/tougher than chrome.
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Old 08-24-2019, 01:10 AM
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Yeah, I think a lot of folks here are operating off of somewhat outdated info. I think the general consensus is that the current nitriding capabilities are as successful at corrosion resistance, more predictable accuracy potential and typically cheaper price. Chrome lined only shows its potential over nitride in high rates (think belt fed, SAW) applications.

I have no aversion to chrome lining. I have a sub-MOA CL barrel, several nitride barrels, a stainless barrel, etc - I just feel that anything you can throw at that barrel, nitride will handle it 98% of the time and be a lot cheaper doing so.

https://faxonfirearms.com/blog/frequ...-chrome-lined/

https://www.shootingillustrated.com/...rrel-finishes/

And remember, chrome lined or nitride doesn't matter if the barrel is rifled and crowned poorly, if it's inaccurate you won't be shooting it much regardless
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Old 08-27-2019, 02:02 PM
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i prefer nitride for the simplicity of cleaning/maintenance.

ive had BCGs that were phosphate with chrome lining before in addition to chrome lined and phosphate barrels... the nitride does better at corrosion resistance than phosphate and is easier to clean than chrome IMO. ive slowly started to convert all of my bolts to nitride or nickel boron.
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Old 08-31-2019, 05:39 PM
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Have both in the AK types and both in the M14 types.

Chrome lined is easier to maintain / keep clean, withstands extreme conditions to a higher degree, and holds its accuracy as round count pushes past 25k in my experience with Criterion 18.5 inch M14 tubes vs the other.

Note: Both rifles built to the same exact specifications. Also note that the Criterion cl tube has well over 75k thru it now, while the other just recently hit 26k, and Criterion utilizes a different method for thier CL tubes compared to the 1960s technology.

Similar with the AK types I have, only the treated AK pistol tube is more accurate than the CL Romanian rifle tube.
Note: Both are not identical builds whatsoever, and both were bought used, so can't say for certain as to exact rd count.

Can't say how stainless stacks up from 1st hand...as mine is a bolt gun and will never see a documented round count like the M14s have now.

As far as Im concerned with it.........

Extreme corrosion resistance in a wide range environments, and ease of cleaning goes to CL.

Accuracy = A tie when all else is equal. .....although the CL tube above mentioned was a bit more consistent across the board after 25k.

Lower cost goes to the treated tubes.

My opinion based on research as well as data obtained first hand.......

Nitride treated tubes get the nod for precision competition/ range toy/ a rifle that will be used to a more moderate degree.
Chrome lined gets the nod for a field rifle that will see use vs the worst mother nature has to offer, heavy volume shooting, etc......

Note: I don't specialize in metallurgy. More of a life long end user.

Photos below offered to show legitimacy. Im not a salesman for either.btw. ...and we have a very large budget for ammo here along with plenty of help putting thousands of rounds downrange.

Left to right

1. Both M14 types mentioned. ( Very old photo)
2. Both AK types mentioned above
3. My issued M4A1 from work along with one of my M249 LMGs. ( Your tax dollars paid for both along with the ammo....so thanks.)
If big green makes a massive switch, then I MIGHT consider it in regards to my personal M14s that see alot of use.

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