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Old 07-24-2019, 09:06 PM
ForgedInTheFlame ForgedInTheFlame is offline
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A slap jack.

The old school dirty harry LEO types know what I'm talking about.

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Old 07-27-2019, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by 3Jfamily View Post
I like my 4 cell MagLite....I mean..it's just a flashlight, right?

of course you can always add aftermarket bezels and end caps....
When I was a Deputy Sheriff, I was called to a fight in progress at a local conveyance store.

I met the two combatants running out and stopped them in the vestibule.

The first one was being chased by the second and I shoved him at another deputy.

The primary assailant was in pursuit of the victim and I caught him and put him up against the wall.

I had a Kel light in my left hand . We didn't carry batons then.

When I reached around his waist to search him, he spun and attempted to hit me.

I shoved him off balance and shifted my Kel light to my right hand.

I had it ready to strike him and I told him, "( son I will hurt you)"

He Surrendered !

My training officer asked me , where I was going to hit him and I told him I intended to strike him right between the eyes.

He told me that was not legal that I should always strike the collar bone.

I asked him how to best accomplish breaking the collar bone?

He said swing it to strike him between the eyes and he would move his head to one side to avoid the blow and I would hit his collar bone.

I asked , "what if he doesn't move his head in time".

My wise training officer said, "Then your report will say, "you were attempting to strike the collar bone!"

The Kel light is a deadly weapon.
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Old 07-28-2019, 08:22 AM
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Default Should I get

Should I get my wife pepper spray?

She walks through a dark parking lot at work.

This is how I answered that question.

No!

Get her a good insulated coffee cup.

Have her fill it with boiling water in the breakroom just before she leaves work.

The top should be loose.

When a stranger approaches her asking for , directions, help, a light or a dollar, she has the option of throwing the boiling water in his face and running at any stage of the interaction, right up to when he grabs her.

Most women are not willing to stop someone from approaching them because they are not sure that person is a threat. Women are too polite.

The best weapon is the one you will use !

Pepper spray requires the user to order someone to stop before they get in grabbing range of the user.

A knife required a deliberate repeated stab into the assailant, (something most men are not willing to do).

However any woman alive can throw a drink in a man's face once he grabs them and he never sees it coming.
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Old 12-14-2019, 12:01 PM
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For home defense or close quarter situations I like 12g shells loaded with rock salt.
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Old 12-14-2019, 01:42 PM
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For home defense or close quarter situations I like 12g shells loaded with rock salt.
Agreed.

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Old 12-14-2019, 01:45 PM
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LAUGHTER
. . .

Scene from The Last Boyscout, where our intrepid hero disarms the villain by telling "Fat jokes" . . .
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Old 12-15-2019, 03:01 AM
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now i realise all members here like the idea of blasting people away, but over in europe they frown upon that. heres how we would consider the original question of non leathal defence

from a distance 10 yards or more, its either chemical or visual or physical. so pepper sprays and deliver devices can be as simple as a childs super soaker water shooter and a mix of tabasco and water. 30,000 lumins will stop someone dead in their tracks too, shine the light direct to the face and leg it when they cant see. a system of flood lights could be set up as a fixed device too. physical can be anything you can pick up and throw or have thrown

close up i love the co2 fire extinguisher, damages the eyes and throat, when its empty you can hit them on the head with it

theres many reasons to not blast the bad guy away, as well as many to do so. but asking that sort of question on a usa based site is only going to get bullets as an answer. the rest of the world does not allow for the usa style of home slaughtering criminals and shooting.

justified responce and reasonable force dont exist yet in the usa, but it is starting to show in the courts with the gungho shooters you have. But do every where else it does get a legal footing, less leathal ways to stop a situation has to be looked at and discussed, even if here its never going to be taken seriously
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Old 12-15-2019, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hedgerowpete View Post
now i realise all members here like the idea of blasting people away, but over in europe they frown upon that. heres how we would consider the original question of non leathal defence

from a distance 10 yards or more, its either chemical or visual or physical. so pepper sprays and deliver devices can be as simple as a childs super soaker water shooter and a mix of tabasco and water. 30,000 lumins will stop someone dead in their tracks too, shine the light direct to the face and leg it when they cant see. a system of flood lights could be set up as a fixed device too. physical can be anything you can pick up and throw or have thrown

close up i love the co2 fire extinguisher, damages the eyes and throat, when its empty you can hit them on the head with it

theres many reasons to not blast the bad guy away, as well as many to do so. but asking that sort of question on a usa based site is only going to get bullets as an answer. the rest of the world does not allow for the usa style of home slaughtering criminals and shooting.

justified responce and reasonable force dont exist yet in the usa, but it is starting to show in the courts with the gungho shooters you have. But do every where else it does get a legal footing, less leathal ways to stop a situation has to be looked at and discussed, even if here its never going to be taken seriously
Justified response and reasonable force do exist in the USA. We are a country
of states, and each state is slightly different. Within each state there can also
be differences. In New York City the gun restrictions are very real, plus you
are not even able to legally carry a decent sized pocket knife to defend yourself.

If we look at what happened to George Zimmerman when he made the legal
and Justified shooting of Trevon Martin, we see that although it may be legal
to kill some one, it should be a very last resort to be avoided because that
piece of scum's family, and the media will make your life a living hell.

For the most part, the British have had to do without pistols for self defense
for many years and could bring a lot of ingenuity to this thread.
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Old 12-15-2019, 02:27 PM
ForgedInTheFlame ForgedInTheFlame is offline
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Originally Posted by hedgerowpete View Post
now i realise all members here like the idea of blasting people away, but over in europe they frown upon that. heres how we would consider the original question of non leathal defence

from a distance 10 yards or more, its either chemical or visual or physical. so pepper sprays and deliver devices can be as simple as a childs super soaker water shooter and a mix of tabasco and water. 30,000 lumins will stop someone dead in their tracks too, shine the light direct to the face and leg it when they cant see. a system of flood lights could be set up as a fixed device too. physical can be anything you can pick up and throw or have thrown

close up i love the co2 fire extinguisher, damages the eyes and throat, when its empty you can hit them on the head with it

theres many reasons to not blast the bad guy away, as well as many to do so. but asking that sort of question on a usa based site is only going to get bullets as an answer. the rest of the world does not allow for the usa style of home slaughtering criminals and shooting.

justified responce and reasonable force dont exist yet in the usa, but it is starting to show in the courts with the gungho shooters you have. But do every where else it does get a legal footing, less leathal ways to stop a situation has to be looked at and discussed, even if here its never going to be taken seriously
It's unsurprising someone who was born into, and groomed as a subject of a kingdom does not understand freedom in the way someone who who raised embracing the values and concept of the constitution and the pledge of allegiance, will.

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Old 12-15-2019, 04:46 PM
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It's unsurprising someone who was born into, and groomed as a subject of a kingdom does not understand freedom in the way someone who who raised embracing the values and concept of the constitution and the pledge of allegiance, will.
Technically speaking, there is only ONE NATION that has a republican form, where people do directly exercise sovereignty, and the government is NOT their master, but servant... unless they consent otherwise.

Ironically, not 1 in 100,000 Americans can accurately define the republican form, its source and origin.

However, since you cannot legally hold the government accountable for failure to protect, your only other option to secure your sacred right to life is to be armed and capable of using them.

NO American government promises to protect all the people. All they will do is prosecute AFTER THE FACT.

As to the confusion over the "people's right to bear arms" mentioned in the second amendment, only shows how clever lawyers can be.

Based on the Declaration of Independence, all men are created equal (before the law) and have Creator endowed rights that governments were instituted to secure. Only by consent of the governed, can they do anything more. However, consent, as a citizen, waives / surrendered endowed rights because of mandatory civic duties - like militia duty - the obligation to train, fight, and die, on command. (Which parallels the Founders' pledge of their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor to secure the rights of all Americans.)

On one hand, PEOPLE do have the right to bear arms. On the other hand, militiamen can be REGULATED in the manner in which they bear arms. Coincidentally, when you read the original statutes, they always leave trap doors and exclusions so the law in question cannot 'accidentally' violate rights of the PEOPLE (who retained them). But if you're a consenting citizen, you're s.o.l.

The most EFFECTIVE weapon is the power to say "NO!" (withdraw consent).
If you cannot say "NO" look for evidence of consent put into the public record.
And if FRAUD was used to gain that consent, you have the right to denounce the fraud, and vitiate any and all compacts, agreements, judgments, even court rulings.

Of course, once you leave, you cannot use that excuse to escape a second time. . . going back into a burning barn has no excuse.
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Old 12-16-2019, 01:26 AM
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I saw a slo-mo video of a cop shooting a fat drunk with a 12ga beanbag round. The bag hit the guy in his massive gut, and ripples spread out all over his front like when you throw a brick into a pond. After the guy hit the ground, he puked up booze and crapped himself. The guy must have weighed 400lbs, but after the beanbag he lost any inclination to resist.
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Old 12-16-2019, 02:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Truck Vet View Post
Justified response and reasonable force do exist in the USA. We are a country
of states, and each state is slightly different. Within each state there can also
be differences. In New York City the gun restrictions are very real, plus you
are not even able to legally carry a decent sized pocket knife to defend yourself.

If we look at what happened to George Zimmerman when he made the legal
and Justified shooting of Trevon Martin, we see that although it may be legal
to kill some one, it should be a very last resort to be avoided because that
piece of scum's family, and the media will make your life a living hell.

For the most part, the British have had to do without pistols for self defense
for many years and could bring a lot of ingenuity to this thread.
I had not heard about Trevon Martin, we dont get floods of USA shootings we dont listen anymore, theres so many. In europe and not just the UK there are many cases every year where a ligitimate defence shooting has happened but they are not advertised in the news papers, but there are many that are for the wrong reasons. innnnn the europe side of life if the force used to defend your self is justified and reasonable they your right to defend is upheld. its when you go way past that right to defend then the laws turn against you.

watch any usa based video marked karma or ex vet and the set up is the same,bad guy walks into resurant with a gun, holdsup resturant till, ex vet comes along and starts blasting away. everyone cheers, right up to the point when the criminal turns to run awaay is classed as self defence, as soon as the criminal starts to run away, from that point he is not a risk to life nor is he dangerous, from that moment that the ex vet keeps blasting away the laws turn and he is now charged with manslaughter as he is shooting at a defenceless person.
because of this we have worked our defense systems to cover our selves as well as to defend.

if i have aa big kitchen knife by my bed and i stab a burglar in the middle of the night attacking me, thats premeditated, ie the knife was upstairs, as such its manslaughter not defence, have a co2 fire extinguisher up stairs in case of house fires and you just happen to smash the guys face to a pulp and the dog bites his backside and eats him, well thats self defence and justified
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Old 12-16-2019, 09:02 PM
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I was gonna suggest a paper sheet as non lethal but Epstein ruined it for everyone.
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Old 12-16-2019, 09:08 PM
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I had not heard about Trevon Martin, we dont get floods of USA shootings we dont listen anymore, theres so many. In europe and not just the UK there are many cases every year where a ligitimate defence shooting has happened but they are not advertised in the news papers, but there are many that are for the wrong reasons. innnnn the europe side of life if the force used to defend your self is justified and reasonable they your right to defend is upheld. its when you go way past that right to defend then the laws turn against you.



watch any usa based video marked karma or ex vet and the set up is the same,bad guy walks into resurant with a gun, holdsup resturant till, ex vet comes along and starts blasting away. everyone cheers, right up to the point when the criminal turns to run awaay is classed as self defence, as soon as the criminal starts to run away, from that point he is not a risk to life nor is he dangerous, from that moment that the ex vet keeps blasting away the laws turn and he is now charged with manslaughter as he is shooting at a defenceless person.

because of this we have worked our defense systems to cover our selves as well as to defend.



if i have aa big kitchen knife by my bed and i stab a burglar in the middle of the night attacking me, thats premeditated, ie the knife was upstairs, as such its manslaughter not defence, have a co2 fire extinguisher up stairs in case of house fires and you just happen to smash the guys face to a pulp and the dog bites his backside and eats him, well thats self defence and justified
Trevon Martin was killed in cold blood.

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Old 12-17-2019, 03:07 AM
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Trevon Martin was killed in cold blood.

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i can see your point of view. in europe as the laws on defence are so tight and so strict and extreamly easily bite you we work under differnt guide lines.

pardon the old cliche, but we see americians blasting away at each other all the time on the you tube channels, we stopped looking. its not down to us not having guns, after all france is as well armed in hand guns as the states are. its we try to be a bit more civilised and less gung ho with them. Blasting criminals in your house with a shotgun in the uk is going to cause a lot of paperwork and disrupt the tea drinking, where as if you batter them with a 20lb co2 fire extinguisher after freezing their face off, wont, in fact i am such the co2 method has biscuits in the interview at the police station

with this original posters question in mind lets go a different way;

in europe as we are more likely to be charged with manslaughter because of defending our selves we prefere to keep the scumbags alive not dead. You also have to remember that certain items are very difficult to explain.

if say you meet Mr. scumbag in your house and you just happen to have a cricket bat to hand (baseball bat is the same) and you happen to bonk the burglar on the head in self defence, your already into premeditated asualt. no one accidentally happens to have a cricket bat in the bedroom so its premeditated, as its premeditated its not self defence, if its not self defence then its asualt with a weapon and then the charges come at you.

note to self, all ways meet your burglar in the games room first!!!!!

a 15kilo co2 fire extinguisher is a totally acceptable item to have in a bedroom as its a justified reason and item to escape from a house fire.

Big carving knife in the kids bedroom,,,,,,, NO
Battered to death with the kids XBOX, no problems

Now in a kitchen theres alot of room to work this both ways. say you go to the back door because you hear breaking glass. you meet Mr ratbag in the kitchen.
neither of you have a weapon,
Mr ratbag turns to run,
you chase after him, rugby tackle him in the back garden, and hog tie him with duct tape, the law would say as he was running away he was of no threat to you, there fore the use of force by me on him has to be limited as there is no risk to me. the rugby tackle might cause a scramble on the floor, there might be aan albow in the face or two, but as we are not fighting but grappling and i am trying to restrain him you cant round house kick him ten times in the face as you have started the fight not mr. ratbag

you see where we are going with this? you have to balance and justify the risk to you against the violence used, if theres no risk, then there should be no violence.

heres a very famous one from last year in the uk.

old guy and his wife sat at home, two guys kick in the back door, the guy defends his elderly ill wife by goingg face to face, the young scumbag gets into he old guys face and starts to threaten the old wife and the home owner with violence, a screwdriver he brought with him

The old guy picks up courage to grapple with the ratbag, the first thing to hand in this case a screw driver, single stab to the ratbag and down he goes .........................dead

no charges were done no criminal case, nothing, as the ratbag had a massive rap sheet and was known for violence, even though the home owner did not know that, the reaction to defend was justified, the amount of force used was also justified, a single puncture wound. the fact the twat died of it is his own fault
if he had stabed him five times or ten times that changes the charges as its past self defence after roughly three stabs

google - Richard Osborn-Brooks, discovered two intruders at his house in Hither Green, south-east London 2018

now heres the total opposite and an extreamly famous case in the UK,
google- tony martin, norfolk 1999
this guy is famous, he shot a scumbag, its perfectly legal to do so, the reason he did prison time was simply he shot the kid in the back as he was running away, blown his head off face first and he would have got away with it, in the back there was no risk or harm, disproportional violence against a non violent attacker is mansaulghter
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Old 12-17-2019, 04:08 AM
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Narwhal tusk.
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Old 12-18-2019, 01:25 AM
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Narwhal tusk.
if only he had grabbed a co2 fire extinguisher than a water one, its wouldhave made a massive difference,

but any of those three guys are heros, first up for standing up against the aggressor, that takes balls to do that.

but look at the weapons used the extinguisher and tusk are both distance weapons, in use either of them puts a safety error between you and him, the tusk and water drives the guys in the opposite direction he wants and it also challenages him with his idea that he is superman or what ever twerp he wants to be,

they are challenaging him physically but also mentally, he started that day with a god complex in his head, untouchable, evil, unstoppable, super star,weapons master and so forth, they all do, the smack head trying to mug you the burglar picking on the old aged person as they are soft. untill they meet resistance, the shock of their bubble bursting to most is more terrifing than you being attacked, in their dumb arsed head everyone lays down at their feet to die, they had not allowed for someone kicking them in the balls or someone with a 200 year old narlwall tusk happening to walk by.

one of the funnier ones in the uk, was a ISIS terrorist, his guy fills a car up with a monster homemade bomb and drives to Glasgow air port, i am sure in his head hehad millions dieing and planes blowing up and lots of bruce willis stuff going on. what happens is this idiot drives intot he front door of the airport and gets stuck.

happily he sits there, the car is on fire, the bomb is not quite working as planned and his virgins are waitng.

what did not go through his mind isbeing dragged out of the burning car and have the bejeasus kicked out of him by the locals for p***ing them off, it was sooooooooooooooooooooooooo funny watching the guy on an interview later on after beating this guy up
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Old 12-18-2019, 01:43 AM
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lets get back to improsside weapons and non leathal ideas,

heres one that wont work
laser sighted high power sniper rifles
if i did the laser sight in the states most people would not believe you . in fact most would call your bluff over it, great in the movies but not very real life situation.

and for all the same reasons it wont work in europe either, no one here has laser power sights on sniper rifles causually walking down the street, okay they do exist but so incredable rare no one would take you seriously

now a narlwall tusk on the other hand is brilliant!!!!!!!!!!!!!

so your improvised weapon needs to still have the threat factor a visable factor and weapon factor.

a broom is great, it gives distance beteen you and them, it has enough strength in it to prop and push and not snap, you can jab with it and block with it and its also able to take a weapon blow with out breaking,

so lasers no, brooms yes.

where does that lead us??
simple, buy a decent broom handle, get the larger 1" diameter ones not the 3/4" ones. buy strong wood not plastic pole, invest in the items around the house that can be used to assist

remember the film The Shinning?? felt like keeping a knife in the bath room just incase, sorry thats premeditated manslaughter again, you might just squeack past with a pair of scissors.

but if there had been a fire lighter or ciggy lighter and an aerosol can and she had flame thrower burnt off Jacks face the film would have ended there and then

how many people keep a ciggy lighter in the bathroom, or large scissors or a strong thick nail file?
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Old 12-18-2019, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by hedgerowpete View Post
lets get back to improsside weapons and non leathal ideas,

heres one that wont work
laser sighted high power sniper rifles
if i did the laser sight in the states most people would not believe you . in fact most would call your bluff over it, great in the movies but not very real life situation.

and for all the same reasons it wont work in europe either, no one here has laser power sights on sniper rifles causually walking down the street, okay they do exist but so incredable rare no one would take you seriously

now a narlwall tusk on the other hand is brilliant!!!!!!!!!!!!!

so your improvised weapon needs to still have the threat factor a visable factor and weapon factor.

a broom is great, it gives distance beteen you and them, it has enough strength in it to prop and push and not snap, you can jab with it and block with it and its also able to take a weapon blow with out breaking,

so lasers no, brooms yes.

where does that lead us??
simple, buy a decent broom handle, get the larger 1" diameter ones not the 3/4" ones. buy strong wood not plastic pole, invest in the items around the house that can be used to assist

remember the film The Shinning?? felt like keeping a knife in the bath room just incase, sorry thats premeditated manslaughter again, you might just squeack past with a pair of scissors.

but if there had been a fire lighter or ciggy lighter and an aerosol can and she had flame thrower burnt off Jacks face the film would have ended there and then

how many people keep a ciggy lighter in the bathroom, or large scissors or a strong thick nail file?
I occasionally happen to wear a belt with a big buckle...

We all know why martial arts became so popular in the East? Because peasants were not allowed to carry weapons, but bandits (and warlords) were definitely around.

Chinese funny weapons? Stick and chain for cropping, long stick for the broom, etc.

Karate (i.e. empty-hand)? Protection techniques for empty hand farmers in feudal Japan, where only samurai and soldiers are armed

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Old 12-18-2019, 08:57 AM
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Folks who retained their Creator endowed right to life, can defend their life and private property with deadly force against all trespassers. Unfortunately most folks volunteered out of the republican form where it was perfectly legal to enforce "PRIVATE PROPERTY - NO TRESPASSING - TRESPASSERS WILL BE SHOT."

One of those pesky 'sovereign prerogatives' from the common law...
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