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Old 05-05-2017, 01:20 AM
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Solar plexus strike, brachial plexus strikes, knee to the groin, throat punch whatever it takes.

But I am in a position that I can't back down, if it comes to a confrontation then all bets are off and any tool at my disposal will be employed be it the Taser, baton, pepper spray, empty hands or worst case my weapon. But you have to train in order to be able to handle the situation.

For us force up to and including deadly force is authorized to gain compliance or control a violent confrontation.

They can and do huff and puff as much as they want but in the end I will control the scene and the situation.
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Old 05-06-2017, 11:10 PM
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One of the defensive stances used at a former agency was a boxed stance. Almost a neutral stance with feet approximately shoulder width apart, lead leg only about a half step forward of the rear. The hands are held in front of you, slightly extended. Like a person who is trying to reason with another but is ready to push away. This was used as an on garde stance. If/when someone move close enough to touch, and we were giving verbal commands then we were allowed to go to hands on as necessary.
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Old 05-11-2017, 06:27 PM
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Where is that police officer when you need him most......

If you find yourself being confronted do not escalate the situation rather get out of it. You have nothing to prove or to lose.

Going to court to justify your actions will cost money or even imprisonment.

Best is to get some oriental training on how to keep your cool and maintain a clear mind.
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Old 05-12-2017, 05:40 PM
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Well, I think this is a great example for the "what if" game. First, being in a position like that means that you'd better be aware of the risks and think about how far you're willing to take things, right from the start.

Not saying you SHOULDN'T take a weapon if you believe you must be in a situation like this, but realize that if you do, that weapon represents an escalation as well as a defense. Once you've drawn a weapon like a gun, you've elevated things to a life or death level. It depends on whether someone else may reasonably be seen to have done so FIRST for you not to get into trouble. In this case, I'd say since there was only some chest bumping, etc. that the police likely viewed the journalist as the aggressor since he took things to that life or death level, albeit temporarily.

For me some of these questions come down to, what am I willing to possibly have to take a life for? If it's my car or my wallet....they can have them. I wouldn't want to live with having taken a life just for what's in my wallet or for my car that I have insurance on. Now, if I truly feel my life is threatened or that of another, bad mistake on their part. I'm willing to do whatever I have to do to make them not a threat. If that's them running away, great. If not...I'll live with what they make me do.

I don't think this kind of thing is thought of enough, especially by people who carry guns. I always hear the talk of "If someone tries THIS on me, well I have my gun" for example and I wonder how many regular people would TRULY sit comfortably the rest of their lives if they ended up killing someone just to defend say their wallet. Even if you witness say the quickie mart being held up and robbed and you intervene and have to end up shooting the armed robber....was that worth it? It's an individual question but one that I think people should consider whenever they consider carrying a weapon of any type. True, it's vastly more likely that you'll never experience a situation in which you'd have to think about using it, but I feel it's imminently worth it to consider just what you'd do in certain situations and where you're willing to take things. Always with an eye to how your conscience would make you feel later.

The first time you take a human life is a surreal experience, even in war. There's a sense that you can't go back (and you can't) and it is weighty. It's hard to explain but its weighty even when it was "your life or theirs." And it should be. I think more folk should really think about that before they put themselves in situations where they might have to resort to violence and especially before they consider carrying a deadly weapon. Also consider that it in some ways becomes easier to take life they more you do it. That can and does lead some people to lose their moral compass and act in ways they'd never have imagined before. So think about that too before you put your foot down on the first step of that road.
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Old 07-28-2017, 05:23 PM
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First guy dry humping the preacher would have met the south end of the stick crash against his face. Followed by more of the same until he backed off or fell down.
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Old 08-28-2017, 04:42 PM
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I try to carry myself in a way that discourages people from thinking I'm a pushover.

If some pencil neck was in my face as in the first vid, I'd first give a nasty look and curt verbal warning. If he ignored that, knee to the groin followed by swift jab to the solar plexus. If his trap was still flapping as he knelt to the ground in pain, I'd introduce the bottom if his jaw or his NOSE very rudely to my knee.
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Old 08-28-2017, 05:13 PM
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What is wrong with breaking a nose or landing a punch to the eye socket? It ALWAYS worked for me. It takes the fight outa most and leaves them in a bad way of seeing anything. If they are close enough to lay a hand on you the fight shoulda already been started by you. I recon I'm old an not a sporty as the younger MMA crowd. Hit hard an get gone.
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Old 11-24-2017, 12:41 PM
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I've come to the conclusion that me going to a protest like that would end badly. So I don't go to them.

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Old 11-24-2017, 03:38 PM
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I always go with the two warning system.

1. 'You need to back off'
2. 'Back off. I won't say it again'
3. Wait until they move forward again & punch them in the throat when they do. Use their forward movement against them/to your advantage.

Once they hit the ground, I take two steps backwards. I never hit people when they are down.
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Old 11-30-2017, 01:22 AM
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Default Depends on circumstances

I'm responding to this just on basis of bare facts described in text of original post, not necessarily in context of a protest as shown in videos.

Real problem here is it could be a sucker-punch set up, or an attempt to create a pretense to fight. It's also just bullying, or could be used to try to leverage you into agreeing to things, so it's something we have to try not to live with, if we can.

When somebody gets right in your face, you could have enough reason to fight, or in other context, just a nonviolent response. When we're in more of a SHTF situation or a semi-SHTF situation, we'll more often have to treat it with a strong response. For now, I think we all know that at most times and places, this act isn't really "for real," and shouldn't really call for violence. People shouldn't really be able to get away with being this physical with you, maybe, but for whatever reason, we're now used to letting people do it. We've all seen it a lot of times before and know it doesn't really that much mean a physical fight is about to start. And therefore I don't think you should count too much on being able to stay out of trouble with the law or whatever if you hit first.

So, at least the most basic answer I can give you is:
1) If context is it's not necessarily time for violence, then quickly make more room, so you're in less danger. If the person persists with another hostile physical act after you use your footwork to get a few feet to the back or to the side, that changes the context a little.
2) If, on the other hand, the context is one where you can't take this risk, then you hit them. Or if you don't want to hit them from that position, you quickly make more room, and then quickly do whatever you have to do next- whether it's attack, get away, defend a third person, or whatever.

Try not to freeze. You shouldn't get too flat-footed in that position. The person's putting you in a dangerous position, and perhaps creating a situation where they're likely to get more and more angry.

Another very basic thing to say is don't just leave it like it is. Make space, attack, say something to defuse the situation, get help, or do a combination of these. If it doesn't work at first, keep at it.

As far as moves, think typical non-martial-arts response of shove to chest actually has a lot of problems. It's maybe something you should only do when you feel really pretty confident of it and when you think the person needs to get that instead of just a talk to get them to start to appreciate things. It's more like getting a kid growing into manhood under control, or something like, that than a real move for a fight. You might disagree, but when it surprisingly earns you some knocked-out teeth when you're sucker punched, you might decide it wasn't worth it to shove another guy's chest. If you instead did something as simple and straight-outta-grade-school as bear-hugged him, and waited for your friends to then help you deal with him, then at least you'd have had his arms under control.

Another bad decision, I think, is a just-turn-and-walk-away kind of thing, once someone's taking it to this level with you. That's a little not really defensive enough, especially for a SHTF or pre-SHTF context. It's your right to solve the problem without putting yourself in such a vulnerable position like that. That split-second when you take your eyes off him or start to turn your back might even be what the person is looking for- like the butthead tricks of the trade. "Ok, this guy is going to talk to me for a second at most, then he's going to turn away, and I'm going to get the perfect shot at a sucker punch."

If the context is that it's really not a fight and you really can guess it's pretty much just for show, then a turn-and-walk-away could be fine. But I think that's pretty much not what we're talking about, and not really a SHTF kind of thing. You know, like a coach giving a kid a woodshed chewing-out is similar body language, but it's not supposed to be a fight. Plenty of people may do something a little like this when they think they're not really doing something that hostile, just stern. Also- You have to be careful of being that guy, the guy who thinks it's not a big deal to try to make an impression by going nearly chest to chest, because a person from another culture may think you've given him a great pretense at a justification to lash out physically at you.

Anyway, good basic martial arts problem for everyone to learn about.

Think for SHTF, basic precaution may be don't let people, or rather strangers or new people, stand close to you. Even talk to everyone from 5 feet, 10 feet, 20 feet. May sound medieval, but. . . You just don't agree to it. Like a cop, say "Stop there," and if you have to, you just explain that you're only going to talk from that distance and no closer, non-negotiable.

Also has to do with rest of context. If you have a few trusted people with you, it's less dangerous to allow someone a little closer, maybe.
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Old 11-30-2017, 01:37 AM
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Have to role-play this one a lot, at least by yourself in your mind, so you don't freeze.

Also, have to practice trying to have presence of mind leading up to the specific moment, just like you'd maybe rehearse in your head or make notes about dealing with a contractor or financial service or whatever about something a little complicated before you actually meet with them.

If it looks like you may get into a problem with a guy, start thinking about what you're going to do. If it looks like he might be starting to go chest to chest, say to yourself in your head, "Ok, this is what I do in this situation. . ."

It's like your pepper spray- it's got to be in the same pocket, same way every time. Not upside down or pointed backwards. Sometimes when you get out of the car in a parking lot somewhere, you should just drill grabbing it and feeling you got the correct grip. At home, every once in a while you should practice drawing it two or three times, maybe deliberately and not super-fast, or at least at first. Same thing as getting your sight picture.
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Old 11-30-2017, 01:49 AM
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Think when SHTF, there may be a lot of forgotten medieval kinda stuff about dealing with people we're going to discover, really defensive or streetwise kind of stuff that's going to go beyond just how you do your kicks and strikes, etc. It'll be stuff we'd never do today, and yet after SHTF, we'd never do without it. At least until things calm down, which they hopefully will.
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Old 11-30-2017, 02:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apok View Post
This has happened to me in the lockup where I work twice.

Put your hands up in front of you and say "get back!"

If they continue walking into your hands push 2 fingers into the area of the throat where the collar bones join. Push in and down hard.

They'll cease moving forward or drop straight down. Do it to yourself now and you'll feel how uncomfortable it is. They have a clear choice then that they'll have to escalate to continue.

They're welcome to try.
Pretty good answer, I'm not sure if it's right move when they have a lot of height on you, though- or a tall and very heavy guy.

What kind of guys were you faced with, and did you actually use the move on them?
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Old 11-30-2017, 02:16 AM
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There's been a huge trend of acid attacks in Europe (naturally, mainstream news media not totally interested in it), so maybe especially for future, have to be careful of these sucker attack kind of situations. One day, may not just be a slap or a punch that the person has in store for you.
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Old 11-30-2017, 06:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim from 28DaysLater View Post
Pretty good answer, I'm not sure if it's right move when they have a lot of height on you, though- or a tall and very heavy guy.

What kind of guys were you faced with, and did you actually use the move on them?
Yeah I've used it on regular petty criminals who are trying to get in your face and act like tough guys, but haven't worked up the courage to actually take a swing yet.

It's not a fight finisher, but it can be used as a takedown if you have a way of stopping them moving backwards away from the pressure. If you force them backwards against a wall then push down, their knees will buckle or if you have hold of their arm, you can force then down and nail them to the floor with it. Of course they can just grab your fingers, but it's still effective when done with intent.

Even without the takedown it interrupts their OODA loop and forces them to make a decision to get physical or backdown. If they're just being passive aggressive or percieve that you have a clear advantage, then they will backdown. The OP video is a good example as the 'baddie' is being passive aggressive and doesn't want to be seen to strike first. I wouldn't use it unless I was happy I could take the guy if he swings.

It's a lower force option and is camera friendly though so has its uses.
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Old 11-30-2017, 06:47 AM
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if they are that close a throw generally will put them on the ground and is not generally viewed as aggressive as your not striking them.

from there create space, if they get up and try to close do whatever is needed
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Old 12-03-2017, 01:01 PM
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Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by hudson69 View Post
One of the defensive stances used at a former agency was a boxed stance. Almost a neutral stance with feet approximately shoulder width apart, lead leg only about a half step forward of the rear. The hands are held in front of you, slightly extended. Like a person who is trying to reason with another but is ready to push away. This was used as an on garde stance. If/when someone move close enough to touch, and we were giving verbal commands then we were allowed to go to hands on as necessary.
Assume "Interview position"

Verbal command "Back Off!"

Distraction, Break Contact, quick peak to side yell "Partner, KNIFE!"

When subject glances away back off to seek distance and cover, if threat persists you are now ready to go hands on and either have drawn and extended baton or have gun out, "Show me your hands!!"
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Old 04-09-2018, 10:41 PM
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Good reading on managing distance:

Geoff Thompsons book entitled "The Fence"

Linky
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Old 07-01-2019, 08:03 AM
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Default Social v/s Asocial Violence

Quote:
Originally Posted by KravMagoo View Post
This is pretty common when a street dispute happens, and someone gets right up to your face, almost bumping chest. How would you handle this w/o being perceived as the aggressor or co-aggressor?

Aside from the obvious of just retreating and running, but also consider that this could be apart of your job, therefore, livelihood. If this is is how you feed your family, then you really can't just run away as a Reporter, Preacher, etc. And/or, it could be your conviction in life.

It can also be an inconvenience issue. Like if you're out with your family going to diner. Would you just turn, run and get into your car to drive home should some toughguy gets up in your face, chest to chest, every time?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vk_x4Bm98Rw#t=01m55

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_0MQdpBIF0
Social Violence is what you are describing. Take your family and walk away!
If you win, you lose. It is very difficult to convince a jury it was self defense when you could have walked away! Where the hell are you repeatedly taking your family anyway ?

Asocial violence is when you are attacked by someone and you have no control or opportunity to avoid the assault. You can defend your self in a court of law successfully most of the time but it may still cost you a lot of money. George Zimmerman !

Always avoid violence if possible.
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