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Old 06-25-2019, 03:13 PM
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Israel Putnam Israel Putnam is offline
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Originally Posted by Revmgt View Post
They made it lighter so when it breaks and you have to throw it at the bad guy you get better distance
So they’re moving into the lighter weight but higher velocity camp?
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Old 06-25-2019, 03:20 PM
Klbsa Klbsa is offline
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I have owned a Hi-point .45 JHP Pistol and it was AWESOME. Super accurate, reliable.

I won’t get another hi- point until they make a 10mm pistol..... I will pair it with the 10mm carbine.
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Old 06-25-2019, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Tactical Lever View Post
I can assure you that I'm not wealthy, nor a brand snob, and I love some cheap guns, and lower priced optics.

But some junk is best left on the shelf. And there is a ton of stuff out there now that is really affordable and not total crap. Just about all the manufacturers make an "entry level" gun. Probably going to have plastic sights, a horrible trigger, look like it was pried from a mis-matched play dough mould from E-bay. But most of them are likely to be reliable, and built OK.

But I wouldn't touch a Hi Point, Kel-Tec, Seacamp, or Charter Arms. Or Savage Axis (mainly too much work to make it "nice"). Or the now Henry produced AR-7 survival rifle, because it's not made to last.

I'd take a look at the S&W M&P 1st gen if you can live with the not as good as the 2nd gen trigger. Or maybe a Ruger SR9. I think there's a less expensive "American" or something now. As well as S&W SD9VE which is a pretty cheap gun.

And the Turkish guns are an outstanding value also. At least some of them. You can pick up a Sarsilmaz with nitrided (?) slide, stainless barrel, highly polished feed ramp, and all around nicely made for probably $50 more than the Kel-Tec.

Also there are used and surplus. Like old Rossi revolvers, or a surplus Tokarev TT-33. Built like a tank, triggers probably like steering one, and crude sights, but built to last. Available cheap, and fits in most 1911 holsters.
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Originally Posted by justin22885 View Post
or for the same price as a hi point you get a star BM.. same caliber, same barrel length, same capacity, with the ergos and styling of a 1911, great trigger, and great reliability
Agreed with these. For a defensive gun, I'd go with either affordable new 2nd hand market (Ruger, SW, etc.), or extremely affordable surplus (Star, Tokarev) before I'd even consider a HiPoint.

For the same price as a HP I'd rather have a Star or Tokarev that I need to fix - parts are available or can be fabricated. Those were designed for battle and actually adopted by professionals at some point.

As for the nonsense that "Glocks are ugly." Only dumb people believe that. They are gorgeous in their near perfect design. Streamlined. Trigger safety. Minimalist. And, nearly copied by everyone that makes a polymer due to their extreme innovations in materials and designs.
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Old 06-25-2019, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Disturbed70 View Post
If you are talking about a pistol, I'll call BS on that all day long. A silver dollar is 1.5 inches across. Even the best match-grade 1911's that can reliably shoot a group that size at 25 yds are extremely rare, and they aren't doing it with Tula ammo. The X-ring on a B8 target is 1.695 inches across...about 0.2 inches larger than a silver dollar. The number of human beings alive that can reliably shoot 100 10x at 25 yds, with a handgun, is miniscule. NONE of them are doing it with a HiPoint, and NONE of them are doing it with Tula ammo.


Considering that I regularly shoot 1 inch pasters at 10 yds, with a stock Glock, and many of the shooters in the class were doing the same, I can assure you it wasn't the shooters.
One shot groups.
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Old 06-25-2019, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by leadcounsel View Post
Agreed with these. For a defensive gun, I'd go with either affordable new 2nd hand market (Ruger, SW, etc.), or extremely affordable surplus (Star, Tokarev) before I'd even consider a HiPoint.

For the same price as a HP I'd rather have a Star or Tokarev that I need to fix - parts are available or can be fabricated. Those were designed for battle and actually adopted by professionals at some point.

As for the nonsense that "Glocks are ugly." Only dumb people believe that. They are gorgeous in their near perfect design. Streamlined. Trigger safety. Minimalist. And, nearly copied by everyone that makes a polymer due to their extreme innovations in materials and designs.
The Star was used by the Spanish civil guard, basically the national police.
I think some African countries bought some.
Not exactly a battle pistol.

I can design a tank for combat made out of cardboard but that doesn’t mean it will hold up to battle.

With the cost of domestic current production pistols so low, choosing an obsolete surplus pistol OR LowPointe for self defense or prepping is just a poor choice imo.

Like Justin, you may be a master gunsmith who can fabricate springs and barrels but the kind of buyer who is even considering a LowPointe is most certainly not.
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Old 06-25-2019, 06:16 PM
Tactical Lever Tactical Lever is offline
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Originally Posted by Israel Putnam View Post
So they’re moving into the lighter weight but higher velocity camp?
And another reason to dislike them!
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Old 06-25-2019, 06:34 PM
Tactical Lever Tactical Lever is offline
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Have not heard great things about Star pistols, or Llama, but I would probably consider a Llama 1911 as it could probably be upgraded a little if is was cheap enough.

Forgot to mention Norinco. Some of them are quite good. Made in all different factories, so a little research on the one you like might be in order. The pistols seem to be mostly pretty good. The 1911 is a little unrefined, but decent, and I like the M93 Woodsmen copy, even though it has a bit of a weak firing pin strike (which the Colts also had, I learned), and the CZ 85B copy is a very decent gun IMO. I believe it's the NZ 85B. At least mine is pretty good.

Canik pistols are also very highly regarded, and not priced very high for what you get.

I'll also mention that some of the CZ clones aren't exactly "clones", and some stuff might not switch over if that's a concern. But my Norc, and Sar based on the CZ 75 platform both take Mec Gar mags with zero issues.
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Old 06-25-2019, 06:40 PM
Tactical Lever Tactical Lever is offline
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Also consider Jericho, and Girsan, for affordable pistols. I've considered a Girsan Berretta 92 Compact copy. They sound pretty decent.

Also, there is a large number of used police or military surplus Berrettas out there for reasonable price also.

Last edited by Tactical Lever; 06-25-2019 at 06:51 PM.. Reason: Accidentally included an expensive one!
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Old 06-25-2019, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Israel Putnam View Post
The Star was used by the Spanish civil guard, basically the national police.
I think some African countries bought some.
Not exactly a battle pistol.

I can design a tank for combat made out of cardboard but that doesn’t mean it will hold up to battle.

With the cost of domestic current production pistols so low, choosing an obsolete surplus pistol OR LowPointe for self defense or prepping is just a poor choice imo.

Like Justin, you may be a master gunsmith who can fabricate springs and barrels but the kind of buyer who is even considering a LowPointe is most certainly not.
Self defense is the most realistic form of battle most of us will ever see. That generally involves a gun you carry regularly and train with. Adopted by a major LEO or civil guard is 'battle' ready in my view. It's a pistol for a professional force for a 1st world nation. Good enough for me.

If your SW MP breaks, you buy parts or send it for repair. Both are inconvenient with some costs involved.

If your Star breaks or needs a part, you search for a few hours, buy the part, or have one fabricated by any machinist. I've had to search for a bit but located magazines for two different Star pistols, had to have a small safety pin fabricated for a Star pistol (price was I believe FREE), and had to search and replaced a misplaced/missing slide lock lever on a different Star. Inconvenient, but hardly a show stopper.

Both are about the same in terms of practical or impractical in the real world or even in an imaginary PSHTF world.

And, in the end, they are far better guns at "disposable" $200 gun prices than HPs.

The Stars are a very high quality pistol and design. If one is really worried, buy a spare set of parts in advance. They are mainly steel. Worst needing replacement may be a few springs and a firing pin. Buy or have a few fabricated. Problem solved.
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Old 06-25-2019, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Tactical Lever View Post
Have not heard great things about Star pistols, or Llama, but I would probably consider a Llama 1911 as it could probably be upgraded a little if is was cheap enough.
Eh, that just demonstrates your lack of knowledge.

Star was a major arms manufacturer for about 7-9 decades in the 1900s and only failed due to global market and arms dealer forces against their fortunes.

During their time, they designed or improved upon and manufactured dozens of extremely high quality arms that armed the Spanish military and other forces.

They are low priced now, but sought after by collectors due to their high quality and ergonomics.

And they look attractive. Often featured in major Hollywood movies like Jules' Star in Pulp Fiction, and other films.

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Star_1911_Series
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Old 06-25-2019, 08:18 PM
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I’ll have a “S” engraved on mine, just before the Y.
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Old 06-25-2019, 08:36 PM
Potawami II Potawami II is offline
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Originally Posted by Israel Putnam View Post
The Yeet thing is just as idiotic as the "rock out with your Glock out" phrase that I'm glad to see has pretty much died.
Yup. I actually like Hi Points. They feel right and balance right, but anybody that would buy a gun called a "Yeet Cannon" would suck a ****. Fine for them if that's what they want, but I will pass.
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Old 06-25-2019, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Klbsa View Post
I have owned a Hi-point .45 JHP Pistol and it was AWESOME. Super accurate, reliable.

I won’t get another hi- point until they make a 10mm pistol..... I will pair it with the 10mm carbine.
I have read the 10mm has scary recoil in a handgun.
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Old 06-25-2019, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by leadcounsel View Post
Eh, that just demonstrates your lack of knowledge.

Star was a major arms manufacturer for about 7-9 decades in the 1900s and only failed due to global market and arms dealer forces against their fortunes.

During their time, they designed or improved upon and manufactured dozens of extremely high quality arms that armed the Spanish military and other forces.

They are low priced now, but sought after by collectors due to their high quality and ergonomics.

And they look attractive. Often featured in major Hollywood movies like Jules' Star in Pulp Fiction, and other films.

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Star_1911_Series
Didn't some Rhodesian officer kill 10 Cuban soldiers in a firefight using his Star BM9 pistol? I seem to recall reading that somewhere.
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Old 06-25-2019, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by YeetSquatch View Post
I have read the 10mm has scary recoil in a handgun.
Yeah, umm no.
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Old 06-26-2019, 06:03 AM
Tactical Lever Tactical Lever is offline
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Originally Posted by leadcounsel View Post
Eh, that just demonstrates your lack of knowledge.

Star was a major arms manufacturer for about 7-9 decades in the 1900s and only failed due to global market and arms dealer forces against their fortunes.

During their time, they designed or improved upon and manufactured dozens of extremely high quality arms that armed the Spanish military and other forces.

They are low priced now, but sought after by collectors due to their high quality and ergonomics.

And they look attractive. Often featured in major Hollywood movies like Jules' Star in Pulp Fiction, and other films.

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Star_1911_Series
Just what I heard about them, or maybe what I recall hearing? From what I can gather, it's not accurate to call them a 1911 due to a few key features including the firing mechanism. Sounds like the main draw was that they were close enough in looks to stand in for a 1911, but chambered in 9mm, which worked better with the blanks available at the time.

I don't see any ergonomic advantage to anything else out there, but they do sound like decent guns.
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Old 06-27-2019, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by YeetSquatch View Post
That poor accuracy sounds like the shooter not the gun. My buddy JB welded a burris fastfire red dot onto his hi point 9mm and that thing will shoot silver dollar sized groups at 25 yds with Tula 9mm ammo all day long. Once you master the trigger its a lazer beam
This post makes me weep with joy. It is the most entertaining thing I've read on a gun forum in YEARS.
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Old 06-27-2019, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by YeetSquatch View Post
I prolly won't be able to afford the HK version but the HI Point YEET Cannon should be in my price range. I think this will be a super good option to stock deep and cheap for emergencies or even everyday carry. I figure for under a $800 a guy could get about a half dozen Yeet Cannons for every family member.

https://youtu.be/1uVohIqOT88
Geesh! We have thugs and gamers, naming guns now?!?

Cha-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a dude! Check it! Yeet Cannon! Cha-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a!

(Reaches limit of attention span) Have you played the new (insert name of most recent and popular video game)?!?
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Old 06-27-2019, 11:09 PM
YeetSquatch YeetSquatch is offline
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Geesh! We have thugs and gamers, naming guns now?!?

Cha-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a dude! Check it! Yeet Cannon! Cha-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a!

(Reaches limit of attention span) Have you played the new (insert name of most recent and popular video game)?!?
Millenial first person shooter gamers like me are the best hope for saving the 2nd Amendment in the U.S. From what I have read hunting and gun ownership among younger generations was on the decline. It's games like the Battlefield and Call of Duty franchises that have fueled much of the interest in modern firearms among people my age. Those old corrupt guys at the NRA aren't going to do anything so it's up to us gamers to take the 2nd amendment into the 21st Century.
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Old 06-28-2019, 01:09 AM
Disturbed70 Disturbed70 is offline
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Originally Posted by Deadmeat99 View Post
This post makes me weep with joy. It is the most entertaining thing I've read on a gun forum in YEARS.
I personally want to hear more about this mythical HiPoint that will hold 1.5 inch groups at 25 yds, shooting Tulammo (which shoots 2.5 inch groups at 25 yds, at best, from a rest). It intrigues me. Especially since apparently all you need is some JB weld, a Burris Fastfire, and a knowledge of how to work the trigger correctly, to get it done. You'd think guys like Leatham and Miculek would be all over this combo.
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