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Old 05-01-2019, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by sarco2000 View Post
I definitely see the value in shooting steel, both in terms of economics and of making sure your gun can shoot whatever you feed it. If Tula is the worst kind of ammo, then I prefer to have a gun that can shoot Tula. Because a gun that can shoot Tula can probably shoot anything I put into it.

Just like my 1911. I'd rather have a loose gun that can shoot anything, than a tight bastard that is picky about ammo.

While I haven't tested every AR with Tula yet, with one of my ARs, that's nearly the only type of ammo that goes through it. It shoots it fine, I don't have to collect the brass to reload later, it's cheap, and I don't remember ever cleaning that particular AR. Maybe someday I will but in the mean time, it sounds good to me! I can't see any reason to plink with anything else, unless I can reload brass cheaper, which I probably can, but it takes time and doesn't save much money.

It does smell like ammonia for some reason. I don't stock up on it but I've been thinking about doing just that.

I haven't shot any Tula in my AR-308 yet but I will, just to see. In particular, if I can find some of this 165g soft point. The gel test was pretty damn good. You could literally use this for hunting ammo.

A Silver Surprise: .308 Win TulAmmo 165gr Soft Point Gel Test - YouTube
I have used that load hunting hogs before, and thru my M14S rifle.

The good news. It can kill hogs. Since my M14s and AKs are my go to boomsticks, I have put enough of it thru both types to know that they function while firing it....( I am one who agrees that long term shtf weapons be able to fire a very large selection of different factory loads, and why I spent over a decade running as many different loads as I could get through the " beater M14S, M1A A1 bush rifle, and now my LRB M14S tanker and M25 tanker.



The not so good news.....

Very inconsistent regarding terminal effects, velocity from one round to the next, powder charge, etc......

The above adversely affects any thing resembling consistent accuracy.

Very " dirty" as residue build up happens in much less time.

Had 2 squibs ( 7.62x39mm) ....so won't use it in my AK types either.

Would not use it thru any AR unless it was some emergency where that was the only fodder. I stick to brass cased fodder with all 5.56mm firearms except the AK/ Galil. ( Same reasons why others who posted why they stick with brass cases.)

Other metal cased fodder such as MFS and Golden Tiger are fed into the AK types. Even my latest AK pistol is not at all picky.

11B
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Old 05-01-2019, 12:16 PM
Potawami II Potawami II is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harbinger1972 View Post
Only steel case I don't like is the .308 by brown bear. Hard primers on them.
Have had trouble with it in my FAL and Marlin.

Have heard the zinc coating on silver bear will cause failure to eject because of the coating sticking in the chamber but no first hand experience.
Stuck in my 30-06 semi auto in the second 4 round mag. I won't buy it anymore an sold all of what I had.
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Old 05-01-2019, 01:39 PM
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I shoot steel and brass in all my AR’s. Really the only problem I have had with the cheaper steel ammo, especially Tula is it is dirtier and I have to make sure I clean the guns regularly to prevent heavy buildup. Other than that I run steel in Colts, Stag, S&W, Ruger, and PSA’s.
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Old 05-02-2019, 04:48 AM
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I have to buy a case or two of steel every so often, otherwise my son will come home from college and pilfer my brass ammo I've found it under-powered, but perfectly fine for back-yard/range training. I would only get it when on sale as the cost difference isn't really that much anymore. Besides, having a few cases makes great barter material to those who didn't stock up; that's where the value of steel case 5.56 really comes in

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Old 05-02-2019, 08:22 AM
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15 - 18 years ago I did test on a non-chrome lined Rock River ban era carbine and steel cased ammo. Over the course of a year - shot 3000rds of steel cased ammo through the gun without cleaning. 50 - 50 Wolf Poly and Lacquer cased ammo. It finally start hanging up on Silver Bear.

I currently have only 3 AR15's. 2 PSA Pistols and 1 Windham Carbine. The PSA pistols eat lacquer cased commie ammo perfectly.

The Windham works just fine with it but I was intentionally (for a time) trying to not shoot steel cased ammo through it. Goal at the time was to keep that gun un-sodden by that dirty Commie ammo.

That goal didn't last long...
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Old 05-02-2019, 08:32 AM
justin22885 justin22885 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckhunter View Post
I shoot steel and brass in all my AR’s. Really the only problem I have had with the cheaper steel ammo, especially Tula is it is dirtier and I have to make sure I clean the guns regularly to prevent heavy buildup. Other than that I run steel in Colts, Stag, S&W, Ruger, and PSA’s.
tulammo is so bad, ive had it cause problems with AKs as well, and some of the cheaper wolf stuff.. not all steel case ammo is created equal and i settled on one specific round from one specific brand i use in all 7.62x39 weapons.. im sure if someone shopped around enough, with all the steel thats out there they could find one consistent enough, with the necessary characteristics to work well and consistently in an AR

which steel ammo have you found to work best in your ARs?

if i could find a steel cased 5.56 round that A, was consistent enough through an AR (which means good QC and the right power to get ample pressure to the gas system), B, wasn't anemic like tulammo and a lot of other steel cased ammo only getting 2900fps from a 16" barrel with 55 grain bullets, and C, was still cheap enough to save money in the long run.. yeah, i'd go with steel in an AR
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Old 05-02-2019, 01:44 PM
danthe727man danthe727man is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad, 2nd View Post
General rule of steel in an AR (from attending, helping with or observing dozens and dozens of training classes)

Works fine in low volume\slow paced fire.

When the guns heat up your issues crop up.
which also happens with Ak's. Just look at some of Iraqveterans8888 videos on youtube. He did a meltdown video with an AK and had to stop because some of the coatings on the round gunked up the firing pin.
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Old 05-02-2019, 07:34 PM
Revmgt Revmgt is offline
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A while back I read an article about rifles with fluted chambers, I believe one of the rifles used was an AR15. The idea was a small amount of the pressure would be forced back alongside the case, helping the extraction. Was supposed to help steel cased ammo function more reliably but if you shot brass cased ammo it ruined the casings and they couldn’t be used for reloading afterwards.

Also heard if you leave the steel cased ammo in a hot chamber the lacquer melted and locked the round in the chamber, requiring a long rod and a hammer to get it out.
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Old 05-02-2019, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Everything I've heard and read, it's not the lacquer; especially since not every steel case is lacquer coated.
This is correct. It's a matter of the elasticity difference between brass and steel.
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Old 05-02-2019, 09:39 PM
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Will it work yes , would i use it yes if I had too and there was no other choice. Watch the rate of fire with steel in order to keep the chamber from melting the lacquer. JMHO and S/FI!
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Old 05-03-2019, 01:39 AM
JLeeS1983 JLeeS1983 is offline
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It takes a really high temperature to melt the lacquer. A lot of problems come from the fact the steel case ammo takes longer to cool down, which results in the case still being expanded when trying to eject causing it to stick in the chamber. Brass cools faster allowing it to contract faster. The only problem I ever had from shooting steel was in my Bushmaster where the feed ramps had a burr that would catch the jacket and build up and stop the bullet from chambering. The jacket seemed softer than federal or winchester, but once the burr was removed didn't have a problem.
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Old 05-03-2019, 06:38 AM
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if there was any problem with the material and coatings used in steel cased ammunition the problem would exist and persist when used through the AK.. theres no way youre getting a chamber "loose" enough to compensate for it without causing a slew of problems all its own and many AKs have chambers with tolerances no looser than the M4, there are other issues at play
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Old 05-09-2019, 11:39 AM
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Default Ability to Shoot Steel Case Ammo in AR

Quote:
Originally Posted by recklessdriver View Post
Tula is garbage and not worth it. Poly wolf is decent but it will need a good scrubbing after 500 rounds.


Agree here.

I have never had issues running steel case WPA through my BCMs (probably 1-2k rounds) or 6920 (6,000+ of WPA). I rarely use steel case in anything other than AKs and my 6920 though. It all runs dirty and can gunk up an AR chamber and action very easily with fouling and coatings. You’ll have to clean your AR for sure after even a short range session with Russian steel case ammo.

Tula is garbage across the spectrum IMO.

The bi-metal jackets on Tula or Wolf will wear your barrels quite a bit faster than copper.

Luckygunner did a torture test on steel vs brass a while back in some Bushy ARs.

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/bra...el-cased-ammo/

Edit: I now see pretty much everyone in this thread referenced the Luckygunner link.
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Old 05-09-2019, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danthe727man View Post
which also happens with Ak's. Just look at some of Iraqveterans8888 videos on youtube. He did a meltdown video with an AK and had to stop because some of the coatings on the round gunked up the firing pin.
We have put multiple 75rd drum mags thru Aks ( Chicom, Polish, Egyptian, Romanian) while conducting tests to see how they stacked up against out RPK types, and didnt have any problems using Wolf or MFS ammo.I was not there, but it is easy to mis diagnose the culprit if using a weapon that was saturated in cosmoline and improperly cleaned prior. ( Found this out years ago with the AK and SKS.)

Note: Unlike the AR, AK chambers stay much cooler as well.

Note: MFS does not have any coating over cases as they are a zinc blend and do not require anything to avoid corrosion. So.....it is an incorrect statement if saying that ALL metal cased fodder is coated.

Had all sorts of problems with Tula however.

11B
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Old 05-10-2019, 06:39 PM
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If you shoot steel, shoot steel. If you shoot brass, shoot brass. That's basically the nuts and bolts of it.

The problems arise when you are shooting steel-cased ammo and then switch over to brass without cleaning the rifle. Steel is more rigid than brass and allows gas/debris to go around it and deposit on the chamber wall. Then you run brass in the chamber and it expands to the chamber walls when fired. In doing so it sticks to the debris/lacquer/etc left by the steel cased ammo and becomes a FTE.

I always test my rifle with steel cased ammo but have made the decision to use only brass cased ammo after the initial functional tests. The price difference right now is minimal.

There are plenty of tests out there (the Lucky Gunner one linked upthread is a good one) that illustrate that with higher prices of brass-cased ammo you can shoot steel-cased ammo, replace the barrel and extractor and still be ahead. I don't think that's the case currently but I haven't put pen to paper.
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Old 05-11-2019, 09:44 AM
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I don't believe in shooting cheap low quality ammo, especially for defensive purposes so shooting crap ammo never enters into my equation. I have a good supply of bonded L.E. ammo. Really if you aren't paying $1 per round you aren't properly prepared. For me it comes down to knowing that my family is worth the extra expense.
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Old 05-11-2019, 10:58 AM
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I tend to use brass cased ammo exclusively, although I do have steel cased ammo set back as a hedge against extreme ammo shortages or for trade to those who didn't have the foresight to stock up when they had the chance.


The only upside to steel cased ammo is that it is less expensive than brass cased ammo. Other than its lower cost, I cannot find a single instance where it excels over brass. Besides brass cased 5.56/.223 ammo is not all that expensive to begin with. So other than saving a few bucks up front there really is no benefit to using steel cased ammo.


In the short term it may cost me a bit more money to stock up on brass cased ammo, yet in the long run I avoid the potential headaches often associated with using steel case ammo.
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Old 05-12-2019, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightvisionary View Post
I don't believe in shooting cheap low quality ammo, especially for defensive purposes so shooting crap ammo never enters into my equation. I have a good supply of bonded L.E. ammo. Really if you aren't paying $1 per round you aren't properly prepared. For me it comes down to knowing that my family is worth the extra expense.
Or reload your own , now I am no expert re-loader but thank goodness I have 3 buddies that are 2 are Veterans and 1 civilian.
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Old 05-12-2019, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by TENNGRIZZ View Post
Or reload your own , now I am no expert re-loader but thank goodness I have 3 buddies that are 2 are Veterans and 1 civilian.
Yep. You don't need to pay $1/rd. Today I'm going to test shoot some Speer Gold Dot .308 150g and 168g for just over 50 cents per round (not including brass), compared to 85c/rd at SGAmmo for ready-to-shoot ammo.


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Old 05-13-2019, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightvisionary View Post
I don't believe in shooting cheap low quality ammo, especially for defensive purposes so shooting crap ammo never enters into my equation. I have a good supply of bonded L.E. ammo. Really if you aren't paying $1 per round you aren't properly prepared. For me it comes down to knowing that my family is worth the extra expense.
How do you practice on a regular basis at $1/round? How do you stock enough ammunition at $1/round for survival purposes? I guess if you are wealthy and money is not a barrier then maybe your plan makes sense (for you).
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