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Old 02-12-2019, 12:42 PM
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INresponse INresponse is offline
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The statistics speak for themselves but in 18 years as a patrol officer I handled fatal accidents with people wearing seat belts and with people not wearing seat belts. Once 3 out of 4 people wearing seat belts in the same full size car were killed on impact. This was a 1990's era full size car that was broadsided. Once a man wearing a seat belt pulled out in front of a truck in his full size, full frame Cadillac and was killed on impact. I recall two people walking away from an accident with only bruises after their old, small compact car was crushed. Plenty of others both with and without seat belts. I never wrote a seat belt ticket to an adult unless they knocked their noggin' on the dash or windshield in an accident (because I couldn't hide the evidence and department policy required me to write the ticket when investigating an accident, not because I cared about their choice not to wear the seat belt)

(My rhetorical questions. Odds are my occasional opportunities to visit the forum will not allow me to debate this much but I hope to will make a point.)

Why does the government demand adults wear a seat belt when the government allows people to ride motorcycles, or worse to ride bicycles on busy roadways? Why in many states does the government allow adults to ride motorcycles without a helmet but demands seat belt tickets for adults inside a car? Motorcycles and bicycles, involved in an accident with a motor vehicle, are far more dangerous and fatal than accidents with people inside a car so why does the government demand safety in a car and allow the unprotected driving of a motorcycle?

If adults choose to take the risk that is a decision they make for their personal safety. Tabulate the facts, share the facts, but allow adults to choose for themselves. Freedom of choice? Isn't that all the rage these days?
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Old 02-12-2019, 01:25 PM
GG42 GG42 is offline
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The trouble with this sort of statistics is that it generic. People must decide for themselves what is better in their circumstances. For example, where I live, most serious accidents result either from falling off a mountain road or being thrown in a river. In the first instance wearing the belt would not help, in the second the chances of survival are greater without a belt on.
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Old 02-12-2019, 02:40 PM
ajole ajole is offline
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Originally Posted by INresponse View Post
Why does the government demand adults wear a seat belt when the government allows people to ride motorcycles, or worse to ride bicycles on busy roadways? Why in many states does the government allow adults to ride motorcycles without a helmet but demands seat belt tickets for adults inside a car? Motorcycles and bicycles, involved in an accident with a motor vehicle, are far more dangerous and fatal than accidents with people inside a car so why does the government demand safety in a car and allow the unprotected driving of a motorcycle?

If adults choose to take the risk that is a decision they make for their personal safety. Tabulate the facts, share the facts, but allow adults to choose for themselves. Freedom of choice? Isn't that all the rage these days?
I agree. I ride motorcycles, I generally use a helmet, I only don't when I am riding near home, at low speeds. Yes, I know, more accidents close to home, and low speed doesn't matter when you hit things with your noggin. But I'm in a rural place, low traffic density, no blind curves or boy racers around, I'll take the risk.


I generally, but not always, wear a seat belt. Again, if I am heading out of town, they go on.
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Old 02-12-2019, 03:04 PM
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Stupid nanny state law driven by insurance companies. That is all it is. Insurance companies don't want bikers wearing helmets. It is cheaper if they die than if they live with very expensive to treat injuries. That explains the no helmet laws. Same for the seat belt laws. Then again, I don't believe car insurance should be a legal requirement.
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Old 02-12-2019, 03:22 PM
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Stupid nanny state law driven by insurance companies. That is all it is. Insurance companies don't want bikers wearing helmets. It is cheaper if they die than if they live with very expensive to treat injuries. That explains the no helmet laws. Same for the seat belt laws. Then again, I don't believe car insurance should be a legal requirement.
I would agree, IF, medicare social security etc. was eliminated. Can't expect nanny state to not have a say when they are paying for and managing it.

Let it fall on the family or charity.
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Old 02-12-2019, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by GG42 View Post
The trouble with this sort of statistics is that it generic. People must decide for themselves what is better in their circumstances. For example, where I live, most serious accidents result either from falling off a mountain road or being thrown in a river. In the first instance wearing the belt would not help, in the second the chances of survival are greater without a belt on.
Unless you get knocked out by being thrown around due to not wearing the belt, and drown regardless, while the belted person is awake and able to open the belt and get out...

Lots of what if's....
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Old 02-13-2019, 04:01 PM
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It sounds a whole lot like an anti-vax argument... "I reject this thing that consistently shows statistically significant benefits due to statistically insignificant what-if scenarios that I am afraid of."

I wear my seat belt every time. It even feels weird if I don't. Doesn't matter if I'm bouncing around at 10 MPH on a dirt road or going 70 MPH on the highway...if I roll or hit something, I want to stay planted right in my seat until the vehicle stops moving.

I ride a motorcycle and wear my helmet, gloves, boots, and full-body protective gear every time. Doesn't matter if I'm just running circles at the camp ground, just down the street from my house, or running all-out on the highway. Again, I want as much to protect me as is possible. I've personally put all of this to use: two road falls due to winter conditions and innumerable falls off-road with no injury worse than a sprained ankle or bruises. Compare that to a close friend of mine that didn't wear his gear and fell on his dirt bike about half a mile from home at 10 MPH...he broke his leg and was stuck out of work for 6 months while he healed and went through physical therapy.
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Old 02-13-2019, 06:36 PM
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Paratransit system says no belt no ride. They will not transport you until they hear the click. Some of the drivers fasten the belt behind them. That's going to be a real mess when they get into a wreck.

One client riding the service in a wheelchair, paralyzed from the neck down. Used to be "normal" but didn't wear her belt in her personal car, got thrown, broke her neck, paralyzed, can't even feed or toilet herself.

My Dad was in a bad wreck before they had belts, and got thrown. He broke his leg pretty bad. He always used to make us wear our belts before it was even "done". They would do the safety class in school and I would be yawning and looking out the window, wondering who would be dumb enough to ride without a belt.
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Old 02-14-2019, 02:42 PM
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I tipped over a plow truck on Monday. I was buckled up because the roads were a sheet of ice. With the seat belt on and the arm rest down it was a very gentle ride. If I haden't been buckled up I am sure I would have been hurt, if nothing else from the 6 foot fall from one side of the truck to the other and out the open passenger window. I usually don't buckle up when plowing because of the stretch to reach all the controls and to see out the passenger window on intersections that aren't 90 degrees. Since then I have made it a habit to buckle up and re buckle up after I need to stretch to see an intersection.
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Old 02-14-2019, 04:23 PM
Potawami II Potawami II is online now
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Eight years ago a teenage driver ran a stop sign when I had the cruise set at 55mph. No time for the brake he was just there. I hit the back end of that minivan hard enough that as my truck hopped a curb sideways I was watching a tire roll across a bar parking lot and wondering who's it was (his). Blew out the back glass on the minivan along with the glass on that side behind the front door. Spun him around so hard that the ass end hit a s-10 and when in tried to back up after the front tire fell off. Yup hard enough to bend two frames.

It was myself my 6 months pregnant wife and our daughter in the truck. My wife spent the rest of the day and the night in the hospital hooked up to moniters, but every thing was ok and none of us were hurt. I'll keep wearing my seat belt as will my family.
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Old 02-14-2019, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Potawami II View Post
Eight years ago a teenage driver ran a stop sign when I had the cruise set at 55mph. No time for the brake he was just there. I hit the back end of that minivan hard enough that as my truck hopped a curb sideways I was watching a tire roll across a bar parking lot and wondering who's it was (his). Blew out the back glass on the minivan along with the glass on that side behind the front door. Spun him around so hard that the ass end hit a s-10 and when in tried to back up after the front tire fell off. Yup hard enough to bend two frames.

It was myself my 6 months pregnant wife and our daughter in the truck. My wife spent the rest of the day and the night in the hospital hooked up to moniters, but every thing was ok and none of us were hurt. I'll keep wearing my seat belt as will my family.
I am thankful you and your's are all safe.
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Old 06-22-2019, 10:56 PM
JoeD1973 JoeD1973 is offline
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Originally Posted by TraderBob View Post
I can't tell you the number of times I've been given a ticket for not wearing a seatbelt in my 60 Plymouth Valiant, and have to go to court to have it dismissed because it was never equipped with them.
Most of my vehicles are older and didn't come with them, especially my trucks.
Wow. I have yet to experience the seat belt ticket thing in my vehicles.

Lot of people here in this thread making black and white statements, but I suspect that most aren't aware that seat belts/lap belts weren't mandatory till 1968.

I drive older vehicles myself, as much as for what they have to offer, and what isn't forced upon them.

I can decide for myself as to what safety items I do (or don't) want to add.
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Old 06-22-2019, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by INresponse View Post
If adults choose to take the risk that is a decision they make for their personal safety. Tabulate the facts, share the facts, but allow adults to choose for themselves. Freedom of choice? Isn't that all the rage these days?
I am not advocating that we kill stupid people but I say we remove the warning labels and let Darwin have his chance.
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Old 06-23-2019, 04:49 AM
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Originally Posted by SeaBeeDaddy View Post
I would agree, IF, medicare social security etc. was eliminated. Can't expect nanny state to not have a say when they are paying for and managing it.

Let it fall on the family or charity.

I think the same should work for thugs and gangsters that put themselves in bad situations. If you get shot while messing around with stuff you shouldnt be, YOU pay the bill upfront (show financial responsibility) or dont get fixed. Leave em laying in the street. We all know NONE of these MF'ers pay their bill and go around bragging about how many times they have been shot.
I guarantee you that these folks that do foolish things skateboarding, cycling, driving, etc would not be near as brave if they knew they would have to live life crippled if they cant afford medical.
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Old 06-23-2019, 05:09 AM
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I don't like seat belts, but wear them because of the law.
On my truck the shoulder harness rubs on my neck at the jugular vein.

Restraining someone in a crash by grabbing their jugular vein with a sharp strip of fiberglass would not be my first choice, but I am not a GM engineer. Seems like some sort of ear clamp might be better.

On my car the seat belt fails to retract when I get out of the car and gets caught by the door when closing it if I don't notice it and help the belt retract.

I actually cut the seat belts out of my first vehicle, a '67 Mustang. Safest thing is not to wreck. People try to wreck into me all the time. Today a woman pulled right without signalling or looking and almost got me but I was too fast for her. Better luck next time!

I think they should pass a law and make women drivers illegal, because statistically, they are more dangerous than not wearing a seat belt. I also think they should require seat belts on motorcycles. (why do they get a free pass?) and we should have to wear helmets to drive a car. Fair is fair people!

My dad used to say the best way to reduce traffic accidents is to install a sharpened spike on the center of the steering wheel pointed at your chest. People would pay more attention then.
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Old 06-23-2019, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by A_SonofLiberty View Post
I don't believe car insurance should be a legal requirement.
Collision and comprehensive to protect your car are not now required by law. The finance copy requires them as a contractual condition for approval of the loan.

Liability insurance to protect the property of others from damage you cause most assuredly should be required by law. The majority of drivers have proven they are not responsible enough to buy it were it not a requirement. The number of FMFR tickets I have written in my time in a patrol car bear witness to that.

(Failed to Maintain Financial Responsibility)
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Old 06-23-2019, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by PalmettoTree View Post
Look folks I am 71. No matter how I die it will not be a tragedy.
I don't think that is the issue.

I worry about the youngsters who choose to follow your cool, but deadly, advice.
__________________

Time to repeal the 17th.
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Old 06-23-2019, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by TRyan View Post
We should make another law. That'll fix the problem!
Agree with this sentiment, but also support consistently wearing a seatbelt.
We all do prep and self defense stuff to increase our chances of surviving an incident or event but then some justify not using a device that increases our chances of survival in a crash. We’re way more likely to have a car accident than need to use our gun for self defense but we’ll drill for hours a week to get ready to protect ourselves.
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Old 06-23-2019, 08:44 AM
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To those who don't wear....... why don't you???
I wear 100% of the time
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Old 06-23-2019, 08:50 AM
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I don't think that is the issue.

I worry about the youngsters who choose to follow your cool, but deadly, advice.
All my children and grandchildren use their seatbelts, booster seats, and sit in the correct place religiously.
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