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Old 12-28-2017, 07:29 AM
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Default Buckshot Testing



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The pictures should be sufficient. No holes were covered with placement of boxes or writing or box-ends. Keep an eye to the edges as some pellets barely nipped the target. All grid is 1". Three shots were fired for each loading at 25 yards, and their actual velocities were recorded. Velocities were recorded at 1m from the muzzle, so as to provide accurate readings on the load of shot, rather than the further distances used for pistol and rifle.


*No, there was no mix-up with the Remington ammunition and velocities. I dunno what to say. Blame Big Green's QA/QC. Weird.












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Old 12-28-2017, 08:07 AM
богдан богдан is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unobtanium View Post
Would you like to see a video, or pictures and text?
I think for a lot of people who have misconceptions about shotguns, it would not be bad to do a test at say 30m (100ft) 20m (65ft) 10m (30ft)5m (16ft)
3m (10ft)


and do side by side comparison with not only the shot patterns but how those patterns open up at different distances prolly using a shorter barrel and a standard 28 in barrel and not even just buck shot could also do other loads as well

would be my thoughts if I were going to do something like that..

pictures and text is probably the most easily digestable format
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Old 12-28-2017, 08:28 AM
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Pictures and text. I hope this is for the mini shells!
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Old 12-28-2017, 08:31 AM
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This is the most comprehensive testing I have seen. No mini-shells.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...arious-rounds/
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Old 12-28-2017, 08:33 AM
sixtus sixtus is offline
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Pictures and text. I like buckshot reviews, not enough of them.
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Old 12-28-2017, 08:45 AM
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It will be pictures and text, then. 25 yards, comparison from an 18.5" cylinder bore shotgun. Tested:

Flite control 9 pellet 1325fps
Fc 8 pellet 1145fps
Fc #1
Hornady black versatite 00 1600fps
Remington LE 9 pellet 1325
Remington LE 9 pellet Low Recoil

To test these loads also at different distances would be extremely time and ammo consuming. I will test the tightest and loosest patterning loads at 15, and 35 yards, however , so the viewer can see how a mere 10 yards one way or another can change things.
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Old 12-28-2017, 10:01 AM
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"The Truth About Buckshot" - American Rifleman October, 1982

This article summarizes the results of firing approximately 500 patterns with Remington Express 12-ga. buffered buckshot loads, without shot wrapper from Model 870 shotguns. Firings were conducted by NRA Technical Staff, with assistance from the FBI Firearms Unit at the FBI Academy, Quantico, VA using test materials provided by Remington. The article published in American Rifleman was oriented towards deer hunting for political reasons. Ten patterns each were fired at 25 and 40 yards, from cylinder, improved cylinder, modified and full choked barrels. The cylinder and IC barrels were both 20 inches. The modified and full choked barrels were standard field barrels of 26" and 28", respectively.

While modified and full 20 inch police and military barrels were also tested also, those results were not included in the published article, because of the desire to maintain a "sporting" focus. Other than an insignificant drop in velocity, results with the shorter, more tightly choked barrels was not materially different from the common sporting-length barrels.

The same Remington 870 receiver was fired repeatedly interchanging the four different barrels.

Patterns were fired against a 48" square plate of AR500 steel 3/8" thick, photographed and the oiled pigment rebrushed between shots. Pellet hits were plotted in relation to a clear plastic overlay having a 30" outer circle, positioned to contain the greatest number of pellets, with a 21.2" inner circle, the 30" circle and inner ring being quartered into eight equal-area fields. The 21.2" inner circle approximates the major torso area of an Army "E" or FBI silhouette. Pellets striking inside the inner ring have a greater probability of striking vital organs, whereas those on the fringe outside the inner circle, within the 30" outer ring are more likely to cause non-life threatening wounds to the extremities.

A 100% pattern in which all pellets strike within the 30" ring may be ineffective unless the center of the pattern surrounding the aiming point contains more than three hits. The combination of soft buckshot, unbuffered loads and tight chokes increased pellet deformation which can result in "doughnut" shaped patterns having weak centers. WW2, Korean and Vietnam-era Army experience indicates that fewer than three pellet hits of 00 buckshot do not produce instant incapacitation, unless one or more of those pellets strike vital areas of the head, neck, or chest. With random distribution of as few as three pellets in the 21.2" circle, hitting a vital spot depends mostly on luck and random variations of chance. More hits are better!

A single 00 pellet at a range of 30 yards has a kinetic energy of about 120 ft.-lbs. Three pellet hits produce 360 ft.-lbs., which approximates the kinetic energy of a single round of .45 cal. M1911 Ball ammunition fired from the service pistol. More than three pellet hits, when their combined effect is distributed over the body, produce greater shock to the nervous and vascular systems and vital organs struck than a single projectile hit having the same kinetic energy.

For law enforcement and military purposes 4 or more hits is considered "adequate" performance, producing a high probability of instant incapacitation. Any shotgun-ammo combination reliably producing 5 hits with 00 at realistic combat ranges from 25 to 40 yards is said to provide "good" performance. More than 5 hits is considered "excellent."

The standard Remington Express 9-pellet buffered load of 00 buck with no shot sleeve, fired from an 870 cylinder bore 20" riot gun averages 8.9 hits in the 30" circle and 7.1 in the 21.2" inner ring at 25 yards. This falls off to 7.5 and 3.3 hits at 40 yards.

Repeating the test using a 20-inch improved cylinder barrel, all nine pellets strike in the 30" circle and 8.6 in the 21.2" inner ring at 25 yards. Repeating the test again, at 40 yards, the IC barrel produced 8.0 and 4.4 hits, respectively. For civilian home defense purposes the 20" improved cylinder "Brushmaster" or "Deer" barrels with rifle sights give dependable performance.

For combat use the 12-pellet "short-magnum" load of 00 buck is a better choice in 2-3/4" chambered guns, if you can tolerate additional recoil. Even though the pattern percentages produced are lower, you can expect one additional pellet hit inside the inner ring.

If you wish to maximize pellet count to optimize pattern density, while still having adequate penetration to defeat interior walls or auto glass, the 20-pellet "short magnum" load of No.1 buck is probably the best choice. No.1 buckshot weigh 40 grains each, producing 103 ft.-lbs. at the muzzle, 69 ft.-lbs. at 30 yards and 61-ft.-lbs. at 40 yards. It takes nearly twice as many pellet hits with No.1 to produce the same kinetic energy as half the number of 00, so 6 pellet hits are marginal, 8 "adequate" and ten or more "good" performance.

No. 4 buck weigh only 20.7 grains each, and have 81 ft. lbs. of energy per pellet at the muzzle, 45 ft. lbs. at 30 yards and 41 ft. lbs. at 40 yards. Experience has shown that despite excellent pattern density, their penetration is inadequate, except perhaps for interior guard use where risk of collateral damage must be minimized.

The entire article is worth reading if you are curious about how other loads and chokes performed, but the above gives you what we really need to know. While modern "pattern control" buckshot loads provide tighter patterns, the results in this article, while dated, give a realistic expectation of performance using more common standard buckshot loads and guns.
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Old 12-28-2017, 10:07 AM
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I will suggest again you all check out the testing I linked above.
There is no better source of information with abundant pictures
Once you see it, the choices become very clear
Do yourself a favor
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Old 12-28-2017, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Swilling View Post
I will suggest again you all check out the testing I linked above.
There is no better source of information with abundant pictures
Once you see it, the choices become very clear
Do yourself a favor
From what I understand, the gel used was not used at the correct temp, and penetration will be exaggerated.
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Old 12-28-2017, 11:58 AM
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Even if that is true, then factor in the temperature issue. Looking at patterns is only useful if the individual has the same gun and choke. We can see what works in your gun. As a general matter anything with a Flite Control wad will perform best. This has been proven beyond any doubt. Terminal performance is a different issue from patterns.
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Old 12-28-2017, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Swilling View Post
Even if that is true, then factor in the temperature issue. Looking at patterns is only useful if the individual has the same gun and choke. We can see what works in your gun. As a general matter anything with a Flite Control wad will perform best. This has been proven beyond any doubt. Terminal performance is a different issue from patterns.
Pretty much anything #1 and larger buckshot will work well, and #3 and #4 buckshot is a marginal performer.
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Old 12-28-2017, 12:28 PM
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I test a few #1 buck every time I load a couple of boxes. Because they are configured for HD use, I pattern at 10, 15 and 20 yds. out of an 18.5" cylinder barrel. I doubt if many pellets would be on the paper at 35 yds but next time out, I will check it out.
Thanks for the test data.
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Old 12-28-2017, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
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I test a few #1 buck every time I load a couple of boxes. Because they are configured for HD use, I pattern at 10, 15 and 20 yds. out of an 18.5" cylinder barrel. I doubt if many pellets would be on the paper at 35 yds but next time out, I will check it out.
Thanks for the test data.
The #1 load prints a good bit on paper at 35 yards, but I chose the full-power 9-pellet 00 because I measured by percentage of payload, and it had the highest on paper at 25 yards, hence it got tested at 35, and it did not disappoint, placing 77.7% of the payload within a 8" radius of POA.
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Old 12-28-2017, 03:42 PM
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When I was working up buckshot loads I was able to use several different shot gun and choke options. I was impressed at the advantage the new shot gun had over my old stand by shot guns. I had one that had the forcing cone lenghtened which worked better than just the standard barrel.

Most buckshot is loaded to a hope an a prayer magnum powder charge. I found by using older loading manuals before the "magnum" craze got me better patterning results. I used modern powder an stayed at the bottom of the load data and worked up. I was looking for optimal pattern at 35 yards. I got what I wanted in a load. Buck shot is still a close in deal for best results. After 35/40 yards a rifle is the better choice.

Good work on the pattern testing Unobtanium.
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Old 12-29-2017, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unobtanium View Post
It will be pictures and text, then. 25 yards, comparison from an 18.5" cylinder bore shotgun. Tested:

Flite control 9 pellet 1325fps
Fc 8 pellet 1145fps
Fc #1
Hornady black versatite 00 1600fps
Remington LE 9 pellet 1325
Remington LE 9 pellet Low Recoil

To test these loads also at different distances would be extremely time and ammo consuming. I will test the tightest and loosest patterning loads at 15, and 35 yards, however , so the viewer can see how a mere 10 yards one way or another can change things.
Thanks for the great effort and great information. I like the ammo choices, I have to pick up the Hornadys you used. I have the Federal #1 Flite Control shot on order.

I've been reading about the lower velocity loads and how tighter the patterns are at greater distances. I will be going to the range once it warms up a bit and start doing my own comparisons.
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Old 12-30-2017, 06:25 AM
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Great testing. Slightly off tangent but 00 is favored for hogs here, too much past 40 yards and they start slipping through the pattern. Apart from that we use SSG, which is a UK size between your #2 and 3 buck, half the weight of 00, about 27 grains each. These produce better saturation on target and still kill okay at range, I found individual pellets in this size outpenetrated 22LR HV on pine boards for interests sake. Also had good results with US winchester loads of 4 buck as well, admittedly magnum loads of about 41 pellets and closer range. Frankly I would not like to be hit with any buck size. Any plans to test heavy magnum and other buck sizes?
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Old 12-30-2017, 07:09 AM
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Back a number of years ago, we were shooting shotguns on an instructor course and one of our class was using a cylinder bore 870 and Federal F127 00 9 pellet Double Ought. At 25 yards the entire pattern was less than 6" in diameter. Still have a box and if the weather is nice tomorrow I might try an pattern a round and photo it for you'all
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Old 12-30-2017, 09:17 AM
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I reload some 12 gauge shells mostly 2-3/4 buck and ball and 3-1/2 what I call triple ball there is a company in fla. that makes them for sale has well. triple ball is 3 60 cal round balls stacked on top of each other and out of a older Mossberg 835 made on a 590 frame they are devastating out to 70 yards. my home defense loads are #4 buck.
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Old 12-30-2017, 09:25 AM
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That is the Dixie Slugs Tri-Ball
Around 1,000 grains of destruction
Consider that at the Linebaugh Seminar using wet newspaper in the "Bone Box"
00 Buckshot penetrated 8 to 9 inches
The Tri-Ball went 27 inches
Unfortunately James Gates, the owner and genius behind Dixie Slugs passed this year
He will be missed
He posted the recipie for the Tri-Ball load and it requires careful construction of the load column
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Old 12-31-2017, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Swilling View Post
That is the Dixie Slugs Tri-Ball
Around 1,000 grains of destruction
Consider that at the Linebaugh Seminar using wet newspaper in the "Bone Box"
00 Buckshot penetrated 8 to 9 inches
The Tri-Ball went 27 inches
Unfortunately James Gates, the owner and genius behind Dixie Slugs passed this year
He will be missed
He posted the recipie for the Tri-Ball load and it requires careful construction of the load column
Thats a shame. I remember conversing with james by email on his 12ga terminator big game slugs in the 2000's. .
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