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Old 07-02-2015, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mefunkymxw View Post
dont believe that i saw anything marked S or TS with any sub classifications like NOFORN or anything else when i looked at the article and pictures.... as a result what the author posted was conjecture, not classified material.

that would be like me saying that i think hillary clinton was running weapons in Libya.... just cuz i said it doesnt mean i disclosed classified information since its conjecture/hearsay.

its the daily mail, not wikileaks or anything.
I know. The daily mail link is fine, the website it used for its information posted information that is illegal for civilian distribution.

I was thinking the OP posted the source website, he didn't so he's fine.
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Old 07-02-2015, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Deadmeat99 View Post
UNCLASSIFIED FOUO is not "classified".
It's marked FOUO, Lockheed proprietary, and export controlled. Its not meant to be posted on the internet for the world to see.
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Old 07-02-2015, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by 9111315 View Post
It is marked for official use only and also noted as prohibited by export restrictions.

Considering how much we are spending on this program, I would them all test reports, good, bad, or indifferent would be classified.

At this point, in the age of Snowden, what difference does it make.
first off FOUO is specifically UNCLASS as in U/FOUO so there isnt much consequence if spilled... it might cause whoever spilled it some heartburn, but there was no violation of an NDA since NDAs dont apply to unclassified docs. the person mishandled information sure, but they did not mishandle classified information.

secondly i did not even see those markings on anything on the site... it literally just looked like any other blog article ive ever seen....
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Old 07-02-2015, 12:18 PM
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It's marked FOUO, Lockheed proprietary, and export controlled. Its not meant to be posted on the internet for the world to see.
it isnt meant to, but the better question is who didnt want it release if its not government marked as in U/FOUO....

also where are you guys seeing these markings???

depending on U/FOUO (or in some cases SBU) spillage, there might not even be a consequence.... if its PII or heath related data there might be costs to the government in terms of credit monitoring and other countermeasures, but if its technical information, i dont think its really punishable for members of the media who promulgate the information... the guy who spilled, the info might have to retake his Annual DoD Cybersecurity and PII training if government, but if contractor i guess it would be up to the IP owners.
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Old 07-02-2015, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mefunkymxw View Post
it isnt meant to, but the better question is who didnt want it release if its not government marked as in U/FOUO....

also where are you guys seeing these markings???
It's on the original source website which I'm not linking to. Also it's marked FOUO that's all that's needed. Unclassified or not, the FOUO marking without being Dist. A means it is not allowed for civilian distribution.
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Old 07-02-2015, 12:20 PM
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Top and bottom of every page.
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Old 07-02-2015, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9111315 View Post
Top and bottom of every page.
im not seeing any of that in the link robot posted.
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Old 07-02-2015, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Sinlessorrow View Post
It's on the original source website which I'm not linking to. Also it's marked FOUO that's all that's needed. Unclassified or not, the FOUO marking without being Dist. A means it is not allowed for civilian distribution.
it also means there is no consequence if spilled. otherwise it would be classified differently.
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Old 07-02-2015, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mefunkymxw View Post
im not seeing any of that in the link robot posted.
It's not, that was my bad.

Daily mail is quoting an official document posted on some backwoods blog site. The document in question is not allowed for distribution.
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Old 07-02-2015, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
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It's not, that was my bad.

Daily mail is quoting an official document posted on some backwoods blog site. The document in question is not allowed for distribution.
its also not going to be legally pursued in a federal court... civil maybe.... assuming they identify the leaker.
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Old 07-02-2015, 12:31 PM
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its also not going to be legally pursued in a federal court... civil maybe.... assuming they identify the leaker.
Should be easy enough. The authors name is listed and the leaker was the test pilot according to the blog. Also it's export controlled, think ITAR and what happens if you breach that.
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Old 07-02-2015, 12:36 PM
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Should be easy enough. The authors name is listed and the leaker was the test pilot according to the blog.
lol... well i guess its up to them to prove it now.... ya know the whole innocent until proven guilty... and then even after that they will have to ensure that he was under an NDA specifically for the U/FOUO info that was released, and even then they (read the governement) isnt going to really punish a pilot they spent years training and otherwise investing in for spilling non-Privacy Act relevant information.... that is unless LM goes after him hard for intellectual property issues in a civil court... which i doubt will happen.
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Old 07-02-2015, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
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Should be easy enough. The authors name is listed and the leaker was the test pilot according to the blog. Also it's export controlled, think ITAR and what happens if you breach that.
the journalist is not under an NDA...
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Old 07-02-2015, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
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im not seeing any of that in the link robot posted.
Try post #9
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Old 07-02-2015, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
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Try post #9
well thats deadmeats problem now isnt it.
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Old 07-02-2015, 02:12 PM
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You're welcome. Let me know whenever you need help with your reading comprehension.
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Old 07-02-2015, 02:21 PM
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The Jap Zero was the demon dogfighter of it's day. How well did it do against the tactics used by American pilots flying Wildcats? A notoriously "inferior" airplane. Never mind the slow-rolling early P-38s it fought against up to 1944.
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Old 07-02-2015, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George Newbill View Post
Basically the F-35 will fire first and down the older generation aircraft before they get a shot off. The test was stilted as in combat the F-35s would not be caught off guard. Yes if caught the F-35 would have to turn and run. Unless the F-16 was very close the F-35 could escape turn and re-engage. Now the pilots know the strengths and weaknesses of their respective aircraft and I suspect that they will pick approaches and tactics to maximise their chances of coming home to Mommy.

Part of the problem is that the F-35 isn't a fighter, it is a multi-role craft. Which means sometimes it will have to bull in through fighter cover to attack a target.


US loses simulated air war with China:
http://www.whiteoutpress.com/article...air-war-china/

https://medium.com/war-is-boring/fd-...e-5c95d45f86a5


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Old Coach View Post
The Jap Zero was the demon dogfighter of it's day. How well did it do against the tactics used by American pilots flying Wildcats? A notoriously "inferior" airplane.
I'm not sure what you are arguing. The Zero kicked ass and utterly dominated us 1v1, at least until 1944, at which point it only had a slight advantage over our fighters. Then I believe it fell behind around 1945. Of course, during most of the war our "tactics" were to produce a **** ton of planes and overwhelm them.
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Old 07-02-2015, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinlessorrow View Post
It's marked FOUO, Lockheed proprietary, and export controlled. Its not meant to be posted on the internet for the world to see.
When the evidence is so clear I suppose the only choice is to attack the source. The F35 is a budget-busting POS that is worse at everything than the airframes it's replacing.

PS: Better stop posting in the numerous night vision device threads on this forum, that stuff's all export-controlled you know.
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Old 07-02-2015, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
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I'm not sure what you are arguing. The Zero kicked ass and utterly dominated us 1v1, at least until 1944, at which point it only had a slight advantage over our fighters. Then I believe it fell behind around 1945. Of course, during most of the war our "tactics" were to produce a **** ton of planes and overwhelm them.
Early in the pacific war, the Japanese had all the advantages. Better fighter planes, more planes, better (more experienced) pilots, and they were on offense. Still, american tactics allowed our pilots flying the F4F Wildcat to give as good as they got.
The kill ratio for the Wildcat was around 4:1.

Then two things happened, Midway and Guadalcanal.

When the Japanese lost four large carriers at Midway (June 1942) they also lost the cream of their Naval Aviators. They were never able to replace them.

When the Japanese lost the battle of Guadalcanal (1942-43) they lost the cream of the Army infantryman, land based Army Pilots, and many of their best surface combat commanders.

After 1942, the US kill ratio for the pacific war, jumped from 4:1 to 18:1.
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