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Question regarding the M-16/Ar-15 production

2K views 12 replies 10 participants last post by  The Machinist 
#1 ·
I was just watching a bunch of old tales of the guns videos and I currently own a smith and wesson sport and am very familiar with how it works. What I'm wondering is how easy is it for an Ar to be mass produced in a time of war? Does it take a bunch of hard to produce machines to in turn produce it or is it almost as easy as the ppsh-41 and Ak's where they were very easy to mass produce because of simplicity?
 
#2 ·
Colt has some of the best metalworking equipment around in their IL plant ..... almost all industry standard ..... the specialization is in the tooling/fixturing along with assembly line .... it's the same across the board with the other gun manufacturers ..... for WW2 the easiest industry to change over to gun manufacture was the typewriter industry ....
 
#3 ·
The need to mass produce weapons is lessened in a country with a permanent, relatively large, volunteer army. Most of the time countries have had to gear up to mass produce weapons was to arm huge conscript armies that didn't exist until the country decided it was going to war.
 
#4 ·
Something like the ppsh-41 is like apples and oranges when it comes to manufacture. They were designed with ease of manufacture in mind, same as something like a sten gun, the minimum number parts that needed machining or could be done on a lathe vs mill. Stens were often made in bicycle shops. We have all seen the pics of the shovel AK, and people in places like India and Pakistan still hand make weapons.

But the major components of an AR-15 are machined out of solid aluminum forgings. So your looking at a milling machine minimum. The AR-180 was designed to be produced under nearly the same conditions as a PPSH. Or by nations with less developed industry, vs buying AR-15s.
 
#5 ·
Okay well perhaps I phrased that wrong. I'm wondering if it is easier and more cost effective for us to pump out an ar-15 vs an older guns or did we sacrifice the ability to make a cheaper gun to make a more precise gun? Did it cost more in manpower and labor to build an M1 garand than it did to machine ar-15 parts?

Edit: I'm sorry if my ignorance on this topic seems juvinile, I'm just curious if there was any other factors in choosing the ar-15 (m16 and all its varients) besides that most engagements were within 300 yards so it didn't need to have a bullet with 1000 yards capability, it was lighter, and you could carry more bullets for the same amount of weight.
 
#10 ·
M1 garand, M1 carbine were difficult to produce due to the machining required for the receiver. I remember reading the switch from the machined MG34 to the stamped MG42 saved more than half the man hours. The cost to build a Sten for example was something like $6, the simplified MKIII version took all of 5 man hours from start to finish, vs something like a thompson. It cost $200 to buy a thompson in 1926, or about half the cost of a model t, so you can imagine quite a bit of work went into building one. Slow production hampered the Thompson for a long time, and why they simplified the design with the M1. Funny how there were 3 different guns all with the same designation.

The M-16 is made the way it is due to the use of aluminum. A pretty big step in those days. But you cant stamp an M-16 out of sheet aluminum, an AR receiver is considerably thicker than the steel used in an AK or other weapons of the time. The AR-180 was designed around using existing readily available stocks of square tubing, just cut it to length, machine out the open sections, weld in the barrel trunnion.

There was a bit of politics involved in adopting the more expensive to produce AR-15 over the much cheaper AR-18. That and the AR-18 had a folding stock, along with piston gas system. Also far less susceptible to dust and dirt.
 
#11 ·
Excellent Answers Already Given And Thank You

Nothing to add; just clarify a bit. American industry always has had perhaps too much say so in weapon designs. Notice that our military does NOT make its own stuff? There is a reason for this. The Military Industrial Complex. Why have it KISS when instead you have all the bells and whistles for ten times the price?

If you want more, like already said better, (thank you) do some research on the infamous M16 rifle. Lots of brave men died next to their jammed early AR15, (M16) rifles. The powerful people responsible for all of the deaths escaped any punishment. Sad, but true. Fifty years later and the M4 is still giving concerns.

Armalite recognized all the potential high teck M16 production problems and then designed and built the rare AR18. I'm holding mine in my lap as I type this. The true American AK47. Actually a better rifle than the M16, despite its clunky, crude, welded appearance. All NFA rules apply. HB of CJ (old coot)

(hundreds of AR15 builds and unknown thousands of co done M16 rebuilds, but long ago and far away and nobody cares today anyhow including me so there you have it in a nut shell. Our industry seems to be over high teck, in my opinion. This may bite us in the posterior in the future? Dunno fur sures. Maybe)
 
#12 ·
I've toured both pistol and AR rifle manufacturing plants. In both plants computerized machines do the work at high speed. Generally there are about 2 to 4 machines that drill, lathe and cut blanks to size until they fit the specifications for the desired firearm. Most of these machines can turn out one section of a firearm in about 10 minutes or so. That finished part of the firearm goes to inspection and then to assembly where it is matched up to other parts. So in less than 6 minutes an experienced assembler can put together a complete rifle or handgun from brand new parts. Now multiply the assembly line by about 6 assemblers and you have a group of people who can make 360 guns an hour. Over a 24 hour period that means a small group of 6 people working on all 3 shifts can produce 1080 firearms. At the end of a week, 7 days, that group could produce 7560 guns. Not bad for American ingenuity and its use of computer controlled milling machines and lathes.
 
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