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Old 08-29-2012, 08:11 PM
ZZ7 ZZ7 is offline
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I train with many of the local sheriffs and PD. Some of these guys are C and a couple even B level boxers. They COULD deliver a KO in an eye blink...and a couple of the muay Thai guys have legs so fast it's a sight to behold... But non of them can strike doing a takedown of a suspect or the cell phone video will earn whoever they hit serious $$$ for abuse of force.
This is why being a cop doesn't make them good fighters. PD's don't train cops to duke it out with people...raining elbows and knees to their faces until it's all a bloody mess....due to lawsuits, etc. Most aren't even allowed to employ choke holds, which is why they train Aikido for wrist locks, takedowns, etc. that leaves less marks and looks less violent on candid cameras. Aikido sucks vs. trained fighters, but great vs. drunks and their lawyers. Cops rarely needs to actually fight 1 on 1, because they have guns, tasers, batons, backup, dogs, radio, etc. It's like spending a lot of time & effort to train soldiers how to kill with their bare hands....what for? They have M4's and grenades.

While cops face real dangers of death due to weapons, etc. on the streets...it still doesn't make them good fighters compared to MMA fighters. Which is why there are many cops in BJJ schools because what the PD teaches them for grappling, sucks in comparison. There are many cops in MMA and TMA, because it all supplements the skills necessary for their profession.

A cop's life consists mostly of patrolling and doing paperwork. Even when they were in training, it mostly was about learning the laws, regulations, testings, weapons, etc.....not all about H2H. After Police Academy, they rarely spend time training to fight. That's why when their dept. have funding, they bring in MA experts to teach classes, etc.

While an MMA fighter, it's ALL about H2H fighting. Training religiously every week for years on end. A pro fighter trains about 30-40 hours per week. Hobbyists, maybe 6-10. Amateurs would vary 15-40 maybe. This is a hell of a lot of training. How would any cop or soldier rival such in H2H, unless they themselves, train as a fighter.
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Old 08-31-2012, 02:02 PM
ARCS ARCS is offline
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I couldn't agree more with the last post. I admire mma fighters for their skill and dedication to training. They are top notch athletes in many cases. The problem is that most people (including cops) don't have the time (& available $$) to train on the same level as a serious amature, semi pro, or pro mma fighter. Needless to say I respect the abilities of most mma fighters greatly. However, it does rub me wrong when so many times you get some mma guys in forums such a this that are convinced mma is the only thing that will work for self defense and then they proceed to bash any and all other types of training and the people who practice something other than mma. Most people don't need to "win" a fight. They need to recognize dangers, avoid situations which increase the likelyhood of needing fighting skills, and finally when all else fails they need easy to remember basic self defense combatives that can be used during a high stress adrenaline dump. Remember they don't need a "win" they just need to escape and survive an attack.
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Old 09-02-2012, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by ARCS View Post
However, it does rub me wrong when so many times you get some mma guys in forums such a this that are convinced mma is the only thing that will work for self defense and then they proceed to bash any and all other types of training and the people who practice something other than mma.
No, it's always the other way around. It is your side that usually tries to tell me that what you train is real for the streets while MMA is merely a sport with rules... and somehow....(this is the craziest part).... MMA fighters are forced to abide by such MMA rules on the streets and therefore not as effective. In general, your side implies that you're more lethal and more capable than a trained & experienced MMA fighter in street fights. How would this not start arguments?

I never said poking eyes, grabbing nutsacks, etc... doesn't work. I just contend that I'd rather punch someone in the face to knock them out because that's what I'm trained AND experienced to do. Once their unconscious body is lying on the cement....I can chose to either walk away or kill them. Because that's the bottom line. If I knock you out or have you in a choke hold....on the streets....I literally, at this moment, OWN your LIFE. How is this not real?

Here's an excellent commentary by Joe Rogan on MMA, Krav Maga and Self Defense. And Rogan is a 2nd dan in TKD, was national champ in TKD for 2 years, used to run a TKD school, etc. Then transitioned to Kickboxing then BJJ then MMA. Just got his Black Belt in BJJ after 12+ years.

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Old 09-06-2012, 12:36 AM
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I would do a little research but then find something akin to Krav. It is a good system, simple and to the point but there are others out there as well and a lot of people are still trying to cash in on the Krav "craze."

You mentioned not running or something like that; I would reconsider that and work on getting an exercise routine of some kind. There are people out there who will say "I will just go to gun" or "I have mad MMA skills" but being fit helps you in all areas.

My .02 only
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Old 09-06-2012, 04:56 AM
Jakester33 Jakester33 is offline
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Old thread but but I can admit that both camps have some merit , I for obvious reasons would recomend not fighting but if your forced into it , The basics are easy , Don't lose.

There is just no way to remove the human intangibles from a fight , I have a background In Judo but my height and weight matter more than my training . I am old school and I prefer a specifc body type to even work as a cop .. ( I'm old and freshly retired , so my preduice is a mute point ) ...

Ive seen fancy kicks and and the recipients just laugh them off , Ive watched arms bars applied wrong and the applier get his ass kicked before I could break them up and I have seen several MMA fighters ( self proclaimed or not ) Cry like a baby in the back seat of my car and in some cases , I have comfoted them while they were strapped to an EMS gourney ... We just won't reach on this topic ...

As for , " A cop's life consists mostly of patrolling and doing paperwork. Even when they were in training, it mostly was about learning the laws, regulations, testings, weapons, etc.....not all about H2H. After Police Academy, they rarely spend time training to fight. That's why when their dept. have funding, they bring in MA experts to teach classes, etc

I know you mean no harm but when saying these things and your just defending your view point but isn't it more likely that some people are just better at fighting than others . There are a dozon men I could name off the top of my head that i never want to fight , But none on that list are MMa fighters .. Maybe you are just that special .. Your the next best thing and I should be afraid ... I guess I am just not seeing the big picture . I have been to TIS events in Atlanta , Clevland , Chicago and wasted taxpayer money on hotel rooms for training classes but as you so proudly point out .. The Martial arts instructors have nothing to teach that has ever really been of use . ( If It was about points and there was an audience and rules , It would all apply , otherwise , we get told , Don't resist the instructor and get a free contental breakfast the next morning )

The truth is , You can't learn to fight by giving $200 to a man who's selloing a video and other than cops who do it weekly or MMA fighters who train hours on end , It's just not going to happen . You can drain your wallet and spend a thousand hours on trying to bulk up , get faster and get the edge but the people who do fight , They don't want the badge of honor ...

I feel like a heel every time , The adrenaline wears off and then your just another thug whether your right or wrong , I washed blood out of my clothes after the kids were asleep and nothing about fighting ever seemd as cool to me as it does to so called MMA fighters. My kids never liked knowing I was in the hospital but to the people in MMA , I guess they like the idea that thier kids think they are a hard ass . ( Again , thats why I say it's a sport , You wnat people to know your a superhero )

To the OP ... save your money and your time , Just stay fit and ignore everything you heard on this thread ....
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Old 09-06-2012, 10:10 AM
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Kick then in the nutz twice while they are still talking, then run like heck.
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Old 09-06-2012, 05:57 PM
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Self defense training is like insurance. You have to have it but you hope you never have to use it.
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Old 09-08-2012, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by real wowwee View Post
Average middle aged man here. I haven't traded licks with anyone since junior high. I don't look too bad off ( 6ft, 190) but my aerobics are pathetic and I don't do much exercise. Running off isn't much of an option. Ideally if I got into a confrontation I'd like to know a few techniques to either defend myself well enough they go away or get in a cheap but effective shot that would put them down and let me walk away. Of course I am making the assumption it is more or less a one on one situation like a mugging or dealing with a smart ass feeling his oats.

HELP! Not asking for leaping ninja stuff just maybe enough not to take a beating and offer enough deterrent to dampen ardor and hopefully walk away.
As a fellow in the same boat I chose pepper spray.

Joints and bones don't seem as elastic or resiliant as they used too so i simply refuse to get physical. Still got a wrist healing from three years ago fighting off a mentally handicapped guy that ran out of meds and turned violent.
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Old 09-08-2012, 01:13 AM
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I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but learn how to fall. Sounds dumb, but if you are knocked down you don't want the ground to break you. It is a very basic thing that can save your bum, and not just in a fight.

Its called break falling in Jujutsu.

http://www.ultimatejujitsu.com/learn...reakfall.shtml

http://www.ultimatejujitsu.com/learn...reakfall.shtml

http://www.ultimatejujitsu.com/learn...reakfall.shtml

Just to give an idea, I recommend finding a Dojo, these hurt if you F' it up, plan on being sore after practicing.
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Old 09-10-2012, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakester33 View Post
Ive seen fancy kicks and and the recipients just laugh them off , Ive watched arms bars applied wrong and the applier get his ass kicked before I could break them up and I have seen several MMA fighters ( self proclaimed or not ) Cry like a baby in the back seat of my car and in some cases , I have comfoted them while they were strapped to an EMS gourney ... We just won't reach on this topic ...
Someone who say they're an MMA fighter doesn't necessarily mean anything. It only takes 1 fight in the cage/ring to become an MMA fighter and that one fight could be a loss....and they quit for good from the sport afterward but can still call themselves an MMA fighter.

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I know you mean no harm but when saying these things and your just defending your view point but isn't it more likely that some people are just better at fighting than others . There are a dozon men I could name off the top of my head that i never want to fight , But none on that list are MMa fighters .. Maybe you are just that special .. Your the next best thing and I should be afraid ... I guess I am just not seeing the big picture . I have been to TIS events in Atlanta , Clevland , Chicago and wasted taxpayer money on hotel rooms for training classes but as you so proudly point out .. The Martial arts instructors have nothing to teach that has ever really been of use . ( If It was about points and there was an audience and rules , It would all apply , otherwise , we get told , Don't resist the instructor and get a free contental breakfast the next morning )
That's nice, but the point is...the Police Dept. don't primarily focus on training cops to fight H2H. Cops have non-lethal, less lethal and lethal weapons at their disposal. While H2H fighting is the only thing that an MMA fighter trains.... 12-40 hours a week ranging from hobbyist to full time Pro MMA fighters. Don't even pretend that the average, overweight, fatty cop even trains anywhere close to this and especially not highly physical, H2H fight training.

This explains why cops comes to our MMA gym to supplement their H2H training, specifically Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu because the Police Dept.'s training just plain sucks in comparison for H2H training....which also explains why these cops, when new to our gym, gets their ass whopped just like any run of the mill White belt and nothing special. And yes, there are well trained MMA fighters who are cops in major metro areas with 10-20+ years on the force at our gym that will attest to this....along with attesting that it wasn't the Police Dept. the made them good H2H fighters, but rather their MMA training.
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Old 09-10-2012, 02:15 PM
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http://youtu.be/DG8zCbkiK-w
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Old 09-10-2012, 05:41 PM
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Sorry it is not the moves list that makes the difference. I know a lot of people think this but unfortunatly not true.


Did you just try to catch a kick with your face in one of those?
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Old 09-11-2012, 04:36 AM
ZZ7 ZZ7 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dontbuypotteryfromme View Post
Sorry it is not the moves list that makes the difference. I know a lot of people think this but unfortunatly not true.

ARCS Self Defense - YouTube

Did you just try to catch a kick with your face in one of those?

Them satellite ears are a bigger liability though. Miss the Thai Plum, just grab the ears on the way out.

There's a recent video of an MMA fighter vs. an untrained street thug on the net...where the MMA fighter starts soccer kicking the guy's head while he's down. I want to post it but there's porn on the hosting site so I'll get in trouble. I can't rip the video neither.

And he calls that his "training facility"....looks a lot like a staircase leading down to the basement/nut slapping headquarters. Isn't that the first thing they teach women in anti-rape class....is to not go to some creepy dude's rape den in the first place?
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Old 09-11-2012, 04:54 AM
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Originally Posted by el drewto View Post
are you prepared to chomp off a mans testicles and spit them in his face?
om nom nom nom.
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