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Old 09-13-2010, 08:49 PM
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Default How safe is where you live or where you want to live?



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How safe is where you live?

I not going to get into the inherent safety of an area based on natural factors, such as proximity to major fault lines, etc.

Of much more concern to me is people.

Religion
Race and Ancestry
Population Density
Climate

Population Density

The average number of people in the United States per square miles is 79.6. From some places that is extremely low as in the bigger cities, but I think it would be prudent to choose to live in a place where the population density was no more than the national average.

The sad truth is that most people do not prepare, and the percentage of people who don’t prepare would IMO be higher in areas where there were more people. People who lived in areas with a lower population density would probably be more inclined to be self reliant in the first place, and since there would be less people there as well, I think this makes living in an area of low population density doubly advantageous.

US Population Density in 2000


Another link for this is…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US...on-density.gif


Race and Ancestry


The hard truth is that you will be more accepted in a place if you are like most of the people who already live there. In essence, you will appear less “out of place”.

Some groups are more tolerant than others, but generally speaking, you wouldn’t want to find yourself in an area dominated by one race or group and not belong to that group when there was no more rule of law.

If you need an example, imagine being in South Central Los Angeles during the Rodney King riots.

Largest Ancestry 2000







Religion

Religious affiliation is not IMO the big thing it used to be. Today, Christians generally tolerate each other, but it is still useful to know the prevailing affiliation of an area you choose to live in.

On a side note, I am intrigued by the Mormons. Their religious teachings included being prepared, and coupled with the low population density of the areas they are most prevalent in, makes certain parts of the west very appealing to me.

Leading Church Bodies 2000



http://www.valpo.edu/geomet/pics/geo...rch_bodies.gif



Climate

Lastly, let’s consider climate, specifically the average low and high temperature. My reason for this is because during a SHTF event, people will migrate.

Millions upon millions of people from the Northern states will descend upon the Southern US like locusts when the power, and by extension, heat goes out.

By the same token, millions of Californians would flee southern California when the power goes out and the area returns to what it naturally is, a desert.

There is no good national map that I could find for this, but if you go here…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...ical_divisions

…and click on a specific state, you will be able to access the average high and low temperatures, as well as average rainfall, snowfall, etc.





Other factors to consider are…

Proximity to major transportation hubs such as the interstate system…
Population growth rates for the state you are interested in…
Proximity to international borders, especially the southern border…
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Old 09-13-2010, 09:00 PM
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High population density
Can't blend racially
Can fake blending in religiously
Dangerous climate
Much too close to major transportation hubs and international borders
Insanely high population growth rate


Do I win?
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Old 09-13-2010, 09:04 PM
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High population density
Can't blend racially
Can fake blending in religiously
Dangerous climate
Much too close to major transportation hubs and international borders
Insanely high population growth rate


Do I win?

If the object of winning is to die first in a SHTF event then yes you win.

Congratulations.
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Old 09-13-2010, 11:26 PM
thirdeagle thirdeagle is offline
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I'm currently in the Bitterroot Valley of SW Montana. Most every one looks like me and talks like me, so blending is no problem. The winters are cold and the summer are dry (and sometimes hot). The growing season is short but the availability of wild game more than makes up for any gardening deficit. The nearest "big" city is 45 miles north and the Canadian border is ~4hrs away. There is little crime although the economy in the valley continues to suffer creating an ever growing divide between the "haves" and "have nots." There is a significant Mormon population, as well as Catholic and Baptist. We are, by and large, a conservative population. However, there is a deep sense of individualism and independence in the valley. I think that leads to a lot of the self-sufficiency needed to get by out here.
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Old 09-14-2010, 12:19 AM
Mule Skinner Mule Skinner is offline
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Default Subsistence

I think location safety has to include notions of being able to make a subsistence living there. Some empty places are that way because there is too little water, or the soil won't sustain agriculture. Likewise cold weather is tolerable if you have a warm house, so heating fuel -- wood -- is important.
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Old 09-14-2010, 10:47 AM
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95.4% of people around here look much like me.

The winters here are cold and summers are mild. The growing season is short, though we have never had a shortage of water. Some crops grow very well here. Most of the state is forested, and loaded with game.

We have very little crime.

The population density is below 10 per square mile.

We have some Catholics, some Baptists, and some Methodists.

Conservatives mostly strong trends toward individualism and independence.
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Old 09-14-2010, 12:10 PM
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I use the property (and violent) crime stats on this site http://www.bestplaces.net/tools/ to evaluate possible BOL outside of areas that I know personally.
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Old 09-14-2010, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by countryboy123 View Post
If the object of winning is to die first in a SHTF event then yes you win.

Congratulations.
Yippee!!!!
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Old 09-14-2010, 12:28 PM
Averageguy209 Averageguy209 is offline
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where im at now Not good where i want to be great
here stockton ca
there northeastish texas
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Old 09-14-2010, 12:30 PM
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I use the property (and violent) crime stats on this site http://www.bestplaces.net/tools/ to evaluate possible BOL outside of areas that I know personally.
Thanks.

I find so many of those types of statistic sites to be misleading.

I am in a state with one big city. It has half of the state's population, and corresponding high cost-of-living and high taxes. The rest of the state is mostly rural, low cost and low wage. But when you average it all together you end up with a very skewed result.

In my town the average household income is one minimum-wage-earner supporting a family. Many people pay less than $300/year in property taxes. Few of us have a have enough income to even begin paying income taxes.

Folks are generally 'poor', but in an area where poor is okay and where poor can still raise a family.

In my extensive travels, I have not seen a cheaper place to build a home and live within the USA.

How many places in the US can folks flip burgers and be able to buy a home and support a family?

But for some reason these places rarely show up on statistical websites.
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Old 09-14-2010, 03:58 PM
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95.4% of people around here look much like me.

The winters here are cold and summers are mild. The growing season is short, though we have never had a shortage of water. Some crops grow very well here. Most of the state is forested, and loaded with game.

We have very little crime.

The population density is below 10 per square mile.

We have some Catholics, some Baptists, and some Methodists.

Conservatives mostly strong trends toward individualism and independence.


Maine appears to be pretty much the only really decent place east of the Mississippi river.

I don't know if I could handle the winters there, but for someone who was used to it and could survive it, it would be a blessing as it would keep out the riffraff....
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Old 09-14-2010, 04:22 PM
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Maine appears to be pretty much the only really decent place east of the Mississippi river.

I don't know if I could handle the winters there, but for someone who was used to it and could survive it, it would be a blessing as it would keep out the riffraff....
Much of the area West of the Mississippi is subject to drought. I have farmed in drought regions, no thanks. My Father is still trying to farm in Missouri. Fortunately he has a pension income to support his farm.

We are above the snow-belt. East of the Great Lakes is a region of heavy snow dumps: Chicago, Buffalo, NYC, Boston all get heavy snow dumps. They are within the snow-belt. We live North of that belt.

I really do not see the snow as a hurdle. How many people honestly produce crops during the winter?

Winter is when travel really opens up. Most of Maine is most accessible during winter. In the summers you have to fly-in, but in the winter you can sled anywhere.

Yes it gets 'cold' we burn through about 3 1/2 cords of wood each year. At an average cost of $150/cord.
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Old 09-14-2010, 04:38 PM
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There is a certain logical argument in favor of selecting a "marginal" location for your BOL. ForestBeeKeeper's BIL being a fine example.
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Old 09-14-2010, 04:56 PM
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There is a certain logical argument in favor of selecting a "marginal" location for your BOL. ForestBeeKeeper's BIL being a fine example.
Thanks

I think that so long as I can grow all I need. Then how long the growing season is does not matter. There are varieties of corn that do not grow here, but there are other varieties that do.

I just got 2 peach trees at an end-of-season sale. I will have to keep them as potted plants, moving them indoors each fall, but so long as they produce I dont care. We already have lemons and figs, that come indoors during the winter.

Crime is low.

Taxes are low.

Land prices are low.

The forests are filled with critters, and most of the state is forested.

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Old 09-14-2010, 05:05 PM
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Hey countryboy Good Post!! Got me to thinking, about the prison population located close by, That would be my main concern.
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Old 09-14-2010, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by ForestBeekeeper View Post
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I think that so long as I can grow all I need. Then how long the growing season is does not matter. There are varieties of corn that do not grow here, but there are other varieties that do.

I just got 2 peach trees at an end-of-season sale. I will have to keep them as potted plants, moving them indoors each fall, but so long as they produce I dont care. We already have lemons and figs, that come indoors during the winter.

Crime is low.

Taxes are low.

Land prices are low.

The forests are filled with critters, and most of the state is forested.

Largely due to your posts in the past I have started looking into Maine. I am amazed at the land deals available. Washington County Maine, which is "down east" has very low population density, has a 120-160 day growing season and is in hardiness zone 5 (close to zone 6 on some coastal regions).
It is 67 miles from Bangor, ME (Pop 31,000), 196 miles away from Portland, ME (pop:50,000) and 369 miles away from Boston area (2+ Million). I think this region offers fantastic BOL potential. 20-40+ Acres for 20K+.

Plus, any property you buy will have plenty of trees on it to heat your house in the winter. If you can't afford the wood, just get a used chainsaw and start cutting.

EDIT: Oh and get "Reliance peach" trees, they are good to hardiness zone 4.
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Old 09-14-2010, 05:25 PM
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Largely due to your posts in the past I have started looking into Maine. I am amazed at the land deals available. Washington County Maine, which is "down east" has very low population density, has a 120-160 day growing season and is in hardiness zone 5 (close to zone 6 on some coastal regions).
It is 67 miles from Bangor, ME (Pop 31,000), 196 miles away from Portland, ME (pop:50,000) and 369 miles away from Boston area (2+ Million). I think this region offers fantastic BOL potential. 20-40+ Acres for 20K+.

Plus, any property you buy will have plenty of trees on it to heat your house in the winter. If you can't afford the wood, just get a used chainsaw and start cutting.

EDIT: Oh and get "Reliance peach" trees, they are good to hardiness zone 4.
There is a farmer [I have attended his workshops of grafting] who earns his living producing peaches in Maine.

He is along the coast though, and he has a different climate than what I have here. For this county peaches must be sheltered from the wind or else brought indoors.

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Old 09-14-2010, 06:08 PM
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I feel pretty safe here in Vermont.
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Old 09-14-2010, 06:20 PM
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very little, to no, violent crime where I live now......... my proposed BOL has little to no also, but is further north so that is the concern
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Old 09-14-2010, 06:25 PM
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I feel pretty safe here in Vermont.

I know the NE US is a big place but I cant help wondering where all the yokels from New York will go when power goes out and they have no heat or no air conditioning. There are also a lot of other big (by my standards at least) cities in the general area.

I'm sure most will go south if they can, but some will surely come up your way. Most would be just garden variety sheeple, but wherever the sheeple go the wolves follow. It wouldn't take them long to set up shop wherever they settled.
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