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Old 12-30-2016, 01:57 PM
macruadhi macruadhi is offline
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Originally Posted by dyingslower View Post
Now that everyone has convinced themselves all about how EMP will do them no harm -- after all they *RESEARCHED* it on the Internet, I feel much better. All these Ph.D candidates and all these Engineers right here on this list that found what they wanted to believe on the internet. Then pat each other on the back for being so smart.

Wow. Just wow....

Obviously, such competence cannot be argued with. I know i can't. Even though an "EMP simulation laboratory" does not and cannot exist, we'll believe an article that tells us what we want to hear. Okay. Go ahead. Appears to be the facts showed up too late.

Who, me? Oh, I just design EMP hardening for nuclear-capable aircraft, that's all. I've been in the EMP disciplines since the early 1980s and then into Lightning Strike concerns for aircraft since long before Al Gore invented the internet. But that might not compete with a farmer.

There are no "EMP simulation laboratories". Anyone that bases their 'research' on that is in error, or selling something. There are some capable HIRF installations, but that is far from the same thing. Part of the big problem that we've always struggled with is that EMP cannot be adequately nor accurately 'simulated' without nuclear detonation. You might could imagine how the neighbors would complain.

Your 'internet research' may not have revealed that pesky little point. Our data is good, but it basically stopped in the 60s. Because it was 'nuclear', it was pooh-poohed for 2 solid decades. Now, all of a sudden, it's a concern and unsurprisingly, few know anything about it.

Anything with a PN junction is susceptible to EMP. The more populated the PN junctions, and the smaller the junction area, the more susceptible the item is. Rather than waste the time of such informed internet "researchers" <chuckle>, I'll let you explain to each other what that means. And then pat each other on the back some more.

Believe as you will. My guess is you'll be stealing what you want soon enough because the world didn't work out the way you were told. You're setting yourself up for banditry. That's fine. Not my business. But no need setting up someone else that comes asking.

A 300 I6 Ford has electronic ignition. The PN junction in the Hall Effect sensor (under the distributor cap) will probably be toasted. The linear components (resistors, caps) in the control board will not.

Wait... probably oughta go 'research' that on the internet - although i doubt it's on the internet what with all the Mr. Wizard types out there. Don't just take the word of someone that's been in it and been paid for the expertise. Take the word of someone that's been paid to write a story about it. That's REAL research.


DS
I won't argue with your expertise on the subject, however, you really do need to work on your diplomacy.
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Old 12-31-2016, 10:14 AM
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Here is my side of the EMP

If it happens.... where will you get gas or diesel ? I believe those will be hard to find.
And if you are the only one with a working vehicle..... how long before someone takes it and your stockpile of fuel.
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Old 01-01-2017, 03:29 PM
dyingslower dyingslower is offline
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Originally Posted by macruadhi View Post
I won't argue with your expertise on the subject, however, you really do need to work on your diplomacy.
Have to admit you're right. Asperger's. ADHD. Age. Impatience. All. None. Maybe I'm just a jerk, though I'd like to think it's unintentional.

I will. I'll work on it a bit more.

Thanks.

DS
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Old 01-01-2017, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by dyingslower View Post
Have to admit you're right. Asperger's. ADHD. Age. Impatience. All. None. Maybe I'm just a jerk, though I'd like to think it's unintentional.

I will. I'll work on it a bit more.

Thanks.

DS
I didn't think you where that harsh.

I'd like to hear more from you on the subject. A lot of people seem to quote the same EMP report, but I have always had my questions and doubts about some of the findings....
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Old 01-01-2017, 09:12 PM
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^^^^what Metcalf said.
Any time you want to add to the EMP info, will be graciously taken in. I would love to find a way to make a type of faraday cave for an automobile. I have wondered if there was a way to shield it, either by turning metallic surface components a certain way, using metal conduit to run the vehicles wires, or something else.
Please feel free to give more info. Me, I am a bit blunt, even quite a jerk, when it comes to certain subjects. I Tend to let ER roll and it can be obnoxious of me. Though I usually laugh about it later.
I like brutally honest, sometimes it is the only way to say something.
Please continue to add to this. I own everything from a '74 CJ to a '14 Cherokee. Throw in the "Dirty Ho" and TJL and I have 4 vehicles. I live in the sticks, have a farm, and would like to make rounds with one of them or the tractor if possible.
So, me
Being the selfish arse that I am, I ask for MOAR!


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Old 01-02-2017, 01:45 AM
macruadhi macruadhi is offline
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Originally Posted by dyingslower View Post
Have to admit you're right. Asperger's. ADHD. Age. Impatience. All. None. Maybe I'm just a jerk, though I'd like to think it's unintentional.

I will. I'll work on it a bit more.

Thanks.

DS
Hope I didn't offend, the "real" me wants to jump to conclusions and fly off the handle when people write (spew) things that are outright wrong (Colloidal silver, for example) and just plain be nasty whenever I read hogwash on here. Then I realise that we're not having a conversation in person.

Anyway, thanks for your post, hope it helps someone here.
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Old 09-04-2017, 05:56 PM
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The idea of having an EMP proof truck and/or the necessary parts to fix it after an EMP event also means we will have stored fuel, at least enough to reach our Bug Out Location. In my case, 10 hours drive away. This drive would happen the day after the event. Before all hell breaks loose.

So having an EMP ready truck and or the parts and instructions to repair it (replace the ECM, fuel pump, alternator, ignition, etc.) that I had stored in a faraday cage does make absolute sense.
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Old 06-26-2019, 06:56 AM
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The biggest problem most vehicles might experience as the result of an EMP is the ability to get fuel, you'll run out of gas. The power grid is still susceptible to things like a solar flare. So If we do experience an EMP the fuel pumps at the gas stations may not work.
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Old 06-26-2019, 08:11 PM
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The biggest problem most vehicles might experience as the result of an EMP is the ability to get fuel, you'll run out of gas. The power grid is still susceptible to things like a solar flare. So If we do experience an EMP the fuel pumps at the gas stations may not work.
If you are one of the small percentage of vehicles that is still running, setting aside any very valid security concerns, there will be about 275 million vehicles in the USA that could be dead. If they are dead, there will be fuel in the tanks.

Say the average tank is 20 gallons and half full, giving you 10 gallons per car (which is a bit optimistic given the gas tank habits of most of the people I meet ). That is still 2,750,000,000 gallons of fuel available in the USA in vehicles. That doesn't take into account any business storage or anything.
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Old 06-26-2019, 09:59 PM
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Better safe than sorry especially if your Bol is far away
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Old 06-26-2019, 11:19 PM
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The problem with semiconductors is that the PN junctions are susceptible to flashover when subjected to high voltages. Consider that a transistor that operates a relay can be damaged by reverse EMF when the relay is de-energized. The current caused by the field collapse isn't a problem, but the voltage is. There are ways to trap the pulse, but how many vehicles incorporate filters into their electronic components?
If the SHTF, will replacement ECUs be readily available, because most aren't repairable?
On the other hand, the old points, distributor, condenser ignition systems can be replaced as long as you have parts to scrounge. If you were in a pinch, you could take the points out of a lawnmower and adapt them to be used in a car. The only difference is the number of lobes on the distributor shaft. You wouldn't have to be a genius to fabricate a distributor cap and rotor button, but adapting an ECU from one vehicle to another would be real work.
A decent plan might be to find an old motor and tranny like a Chevy 250 six and keep it in case the ignition system on your modern truck blows up. It's not difficult for anyone who can weld and run a band saw to put that engine into about any truck that's 2WD, and it wouldn't be impossible to put it into most 4WD vehicles.
Of course, anyone who claims to be a prepper who can't weld isn't really a prepper.
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Old 06-26-2019, 11:29 PM
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Anything that burned out points would burn wires as well so it would be a lot bigger issue than just replacing the points and coil. Points are nothing more than a heavy duty switch after all, nothing in there more sensitive than the wires than run to it.
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Old 06-27-2019, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Aerindel View Post
Anything that burned out points would burn wires as well so it would be a lot bigger issue than just replacing the points and coil. Points are nothing more than a heavy duty switch after all, nothing in there more sensitive than the wires than run to it.
Agree. The points should be very durable. The condenser would be by bigger worry in that system to me, but in general should be more durable than modern options by far.

That said, some spare parts are usually a good idea for most older vehicles anyways. All those parts basically fit in the palm of your hand and only cost a few bucks.
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Old 06-27-2019, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randolphrowzeebragg View Post
The problem with semiconductors is that the PN junctions are susceptible to flashover when subjected to high voltages. Consider that a transistor that operates a relay can be damaged by reverse EMF when the relay is de-energized. The current caused by the field collapse isn't a problem, but the voltage is. There are ways to trap the pulse, but how many vehicles incorporate filters into their electronic components?
If the SHTF, will replacement ECUs be readily available, because most aren't repairable?
On the other hand, the old points, distributor, condenser ignition systems can be replaced as long as you have parts to scrounge. If you were in a pinch, you could take the points out of a lawnmower and adapt them to be used in a car. The only they haven’t used points in lawnmowers in about 38 years....good luck finding thatdifference is the number of lobes on the distributor shaft. You wouldn't have to be a genius to fabricate a distributor cap and rotor button, but adapting an ECU from one vehicle to another would be real work. i doubt you have the ability to do it....from previous posts
A decent plan might be to find an old motor and tranny like a Chevy 250 six and keep it in case the ignition system on your modern truck blows up. It's not difficult for anyone who can weld and run a band saw to put that engine into about any truck that's 2WD, and it wouldn't be impossible to put it into most 4WD vehicles.
Of course, anyone who claims to be a prepper who can't weld isn't really a prepper.
Hmm....after an emp....you have a band saw and welder....
Lol

Total BS
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Old 06-27-2019, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Goodwrench708 View Post
Hmm....after an emp....you have a band saw and welder....
Lol

Total BS
Most band saws either use universal or standard squirrel cage motors, which are heavily insulated because of heat and safety requirements. The rotors in universal motors are also shielded by powerful magnets that make up the stator. The wires that make up the coils are insulated, and then the coils are dipped in varnish for additional insulation. Some welders use diodes, but many are just tapped transformers which are made up of insulated wires and also dipped for more protection. As long as they aren't turned on when an EMP occurs, they won't be subject to the voltage spikes that will occur when an EMP hits a grid wire that could be miles long.
Electrical theory scares lots of people, but the principles are fairly simple. It's a shame that people who don't know a resistor from a conductor have opinions about a subject about which they know next to nothing.
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Old 06-28-2019, 04:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randolphrowzeebragg View Post
Most band saws either use universal or standard squirrel cage motors, which are heavily insulated because of heat and safety requirements. The rotors in universal motors are also shielded by powerful magnets that make up the stator. The wires that make up the coils are insulated, and then the coils are dipped in varnish for additional insulation. Some welders use diodes, but many are just tapped transformers which are made up of insulated wires and also dipped for more protection. As long as they aren't turned on when an EMP occurs, they won't be subject to the voltage spikes that will occur when an EMP hits a grid wire that could be miles long.
Electrical theory scares lots of people, but the principles are fairly simple. It's a shame that people who don't know a resistor from a conductor have opinions about a subject about which they know next to nothing.
Please don’t act like you can teach me anything about electrical.... I have forgotten more about electrical ....than you will ever know

After all your “knowledge “ that you spewed out......you forgot the most important part..... after an EMP event.. there won’t be any electricity to run your band saw or welder
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Old 06-28-2019, 05:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Goodwrench708 View Post
Please don’t act like you can teach me anything about electrical.... I have forgotten more about electrical ....than you will ever know

After all your “knowledge “ that you spewed out......you forgot the most important part..... after an EMP event.. there won’t be any electricity to run your band saw or welder
Normalcy bias is a pretty amazing thing isn't it?

Did you ever read that old tech support joke that went around in the late 90's?

It was about some lady who called in complaining her computer wouldn't work. The tech guy has her try everything and finally in frustration, asks her to unplug it and plug it back in again. She tells him that she can't because it's too dark to see the power cord. He asks why doesn't she just turn the lights on and she says "Because the power is out"
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Old 07-24-2019, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by dyingslower View Post
Now that everyone has convinced themselves all about how EMP will do them no harm -- after all they *RESEARCHED* it on the Internet, I feel much better. All these Ph.D candidates and all these Engineers right here on this list that found what they wanted to believe on the internet. Then pat each other on the back for being so smart.

Wow. Just wow....

Obviously, such competence cannot be argued with. I know i can't. Even though an "EMP simulation laboratory" does not and cannot exist, we'll believe an article that tells us what we want to hear. Okay. Go ahead. Appears to be the facts showed up too late.

Who, me? Oh, I just design EMP hardening for nuclear-capable aircraft, that's all. I've been in the EMP disciplines since the early 1980s and then into Lightning Strike concerns for aircraft since long before Al Gore invented the internet. But that might not compete with a farmer.

There are no "EMP simulation laboratories". Anyone that bases their 'research' on that is in error, or selling something. There are some capable HIRF installations, but that is far from the same thing. Part of the big problem that we've always struggled with is that EMP cannot be adequately nor accurately 'simulated' without nuclear detonation. You might could imagine how the neighbors would complain.

Your 'internet research' may not have revealed that pesky little point. Our data is good, but it basically stopped in the 60s. Because it was 'nuclear', it was pooh-poohed for 2 solid decades. Now, all of a sudden, it's a concern and unsurprisingly, few know anything about it.

Anything with a PN junction is susceptible to EMP. The more populated the PN junctions, and the smaller the junction area, the more susceptible the item is. Rather than waste the time of such informed internet "researchers" <chuckle>, I'll let you explain to each other what that means. And then pat each other on the back some more.

Believe as you will. My guess is you'll be stealing what you want soon enough because the world didn't work out the way you were told. You're setting yourself up for banditry. That's fine. Not my business. But no need setting up someone else that comes asking.

A 300 I6 Ford has electronic ignition. The PN junction in the Hall Effect sensor (under the distributor cap) will probably be toasted. The linear components (resistors, caps) in the control board will not.

Wait... probably oughta go 'research' that on the internet - although i doubt it's on the internet what with all the Mr. Wizard types out there. Don't just take the word of someone that's been in it and been paid for the expertise. Take the word of someone that's been paid to write a story about it. That's REAL research.


DS
So with your experience, what would you suggest with a vehicle and how to modify it so you have a better chance of it not being effected by and EMP? I have a 1979 F-350 with the standard duraspark ignition. I have thought of going with the single wire GM distributor/ignition and just keeping another centre coil section of the distributor separate to replace it if need.
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Old 07-25-2019, 10:46 PM
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Non electronic ignition.



Old School Distributor cap with points.
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Old 08-05-2019, 02:47 PM
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Depends on the electromagnetic pulse strength but the easiest protection is to park inside a giant Faraday cage, like a metal garage. Beyond that, I wouldn't lose sleep over it.
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