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Old 06-09-2019, 02:20 PM
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Generally I agree about the pick-up VS suv thing, but some people just don't need a bed. A full-size, truck based suv is still light years more useful than the average car. I think it goes beyond hauling the kiddos, pretty much anyone with land, a DIY'er, or boater/jet skier/weekend drag racer/snowmobiler, etc all might need the extra enclosed storage capacity and towing ability, but not really have a use for a bed, especially a 4 1/2 foot bed. The Avalanche, Sport Trac, and Envoy XUV all tried to provide solutions to this "suv with a bed" thing and all 3 have went the way of the dodo. I guess the Ridgeline still lives on, but that thing is in a world of its own (uni-body FWD based). The only mom's I see around here driving full-size suv's are the hardcore Espanol only Mexican women. Most of the soccer mom's are enamored with Ford Edge's/Explorers, Chevy Traverse's, and the GLK Benz and BMW X1 around here

Plus the fact that in Illinois, and I'm assuming other states too, just having a bed requires truck plates which present you with a whole slew of limitations. Even an El Camino or Ranchero, you're stuck with truck plates or put a topper on the back for RV plates. No street parking, no left lane on the highway, no driving down Lake Shore Drive, or any other "Boulevard" or "Avenue", etc.
I'd absolutely take a full size SUV over a car if that were my only choice. Pick ups are almost standard issue here because of lifestyle. Illinois traffic laws wouldn't fly. We live in different worlds.

The Cholas here run 22s on their SUVs lol.
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Old 06-09-2019, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by RedTail View Post
I'd absolutely take a full size SUV over a car if that were my only choice. Pick ups are almost standard issue here because of lifestyle. Illinois traffic laws wouldn't fly. We live in different worlds.

The Cholas here run 22s on their SUVs lol.
Haha that's the word I was looking for, "Cholas" They sure do love their Yukon XL's and Escalades around here.



On another note....I think Jeep's secret sauce with the Wrangler is that it never went away, same thing with the Mustang. That type of consistency and longevity means something to the non-hardcore "car" people.

Jeep could have not done a dang thing to the Wrangler since the TJ years, including no Unlimited's, and they'd still be moving 50,000+ units a year at $30k. That name just means so much to so many types of people. Heck, look at how many younger women drive them and put up with their quirks even though the thing will never see even a gravel back road. There is a reason that after all these different owners (including the latest euro-trash owners) they haven't messed with the basic design too much. If I remember correctly Daimler wanted to keep the Jeep brand only, but Fiat wasn't interested without them in the deal.
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Old 06-09-2019, 09:16 PM
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Jeep could have not done a dang thing to the Wrangler since the TJ years, including no Unlimited's, and they'd still be moving 50,000+ units a year at $30k. That name just means so much to so many types of people. Heck, look at how many younger women drive them and put up with their quirks even though the thing will never see even a gravel back road. There is a reason that after all these different owners (including the latest euro-trash owners) they haven't messed with the basic design too much. If I remember correctly Daimler wanted to keep the Jeep brand only, but Fiat wasn't interested without them in the deal.
The 4-door Wrangler in 2008 was a HUGE bonus for them. They took the brand loyalty recognizably and put it in something that sold something ridiculous like a million units a year. They took it from a small unpractical historical SUV and turned it into a monster market. I honestly don't think they expected it to take off as much as it did.
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Old 06-19-2019, 02:11 PM
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I think jeeps look really cool, they're just limited in utility. The bed of the gladiator is 49" wide between the side walls. Can't fit a full size sheet of plywood between the humps. Not sure I could get my quad in there either. Could pull a trailer but they suck at towing. Not great power/torque and the wheel base makes em squirrely under load. If I could justify owning one as a toy, I'd love to do a low COG build with 35's.
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Old 06-19-2019, 03:46 PM
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I think jeeps look really cool, they're just limited in utility. The bed of the gladiator is 49" wide between the side walls. Can't fit a full size sheet of plywood between the humps. Not sure I could get my quad in there either. Could pull a trailer but they suck at towing. Not great power/torque and the wheel base makes em squirrely under load. If I could justify owning one as a toy, I'd love to do a low COG build with 35's.


If one needs a truck to do big truck stuff then it seems obvious to buy a big (full size) pickup. But if you're only going to haul a half dozen sheets of plywood or a trailer with a quad on it, a gladiator is more than suited. And with the coming diesel, that tow ability will go up even more.
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Old 06-19-2019, 04:25 PM
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Those great old models can't come back. When Detroit was first facing off against Japanese imports that resulted in the 80's domestic vehicle disasters, Detroit turned to regulation to stay one step ahead. They would keep Japan on the back foot requiring them to redesign all the time to meet new regulation that Detroit was warned about in advance.

In the process doing so they let the tree huggers and the Ralph Nader types write all the new regs and convinced the UAW to defer raises in lieu of fatter pension promises.

Now they are completely screwed. They couldn't sell an old Bronco if they wanted to. It's been grandfathered for dozens of reasons now. A new one would have a couple dozen regulation violations even before they put gas in it the first time.

Roxor quit trying to enter the street legal market with a design that would have passed a 1980 vehicle state inspection test with flying colors..

This is a perfect example of what happens when industry turns to government to protect it.

It's why you can buy a Hilux anywhere in the world except in the US.
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Old 06-19-2019, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by RedTail View Post
I think jeeps look really cool, they're just limited in utility. The bed of the gladiator is 49" wide between the side walls. Can't fit a full size sheet of plywood between the humps. Not sure I could get my quad in there either. Could pull a trailer but they suck at towing. Not great power/torque and the wheel base makes em squirrely under load. If I could justify owning one as a toy, I'd love to do a low COG build with 35's.
You can load 4x8 sheets on top of the wheel tubs with the tailgate in the half down position. They designed in that specific feature.

The bed is big enough for a quad with the tailgate down just like any other compact pickup....Toyota, Nissan, GM mid-size, etc.

They are rated for 7650lbs of tow capacity in the right package. That is as much or more than any other truck in this class.

The wheelbase is 137.7". That is within 2.3" of a Dodge Regular Cab LongBed truck. People have been towing with that size truck for decades just fine.

It isn't a full size truck. It wasn't suppose to be. If you need a full-size buy a full-size.
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Old 06-19-2019, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by tedlovesjeeps71 View Post
If one needs a truck to do big truck stuff then it seems obvious to buy a big (full size) pickup. But if you're only going to haul a half dozen sheets of plywood or a trailer with a quad on it, a gladiator is more than suited. And with the coming diesel, that tow ability will go up even more.
The Diesel JT will actually be rated for less tow capacity than the 3.6 gas 'officially'

They just can't cram any more cooling capacity in the nose of the gladiator. The diesel makes more heat, they had to reduce the official tow rating.
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Old 06-19-2019, 08:25 PM
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The Diesel JT will actually be rated for less tow capacity than the 3.6 gas 'officially'



They just can't cram any more cooling capacity in the nose of the gladiator. The diesel makes more heat, they had to reduce the official tow rating.


So in other words, expect someone to come up with some creative hood type cooling system and a power tune for the diesel.
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Old 06-19-2019, 08:43 PM
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So in other words, expect someone to come up with some creative hood type cooling system and a power tune for the diesel.
If Jeep doesn't offer it in their towing package you can get UHaul to add a good tranny cooler.
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Old 06-19-2019, 09:05 PM
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So in other words, expect someone to come up with some creative hood type cooling system and a power tune for the diesel.
They already gave the JT a new nose to increase cooling capacity with the 3.6. They did try. They spent some real effort on it.

Now, sure, someone will toss a tune in it and make silly power, but that won't solve the cooling issues. You see the same thing in hot rod diesel trucks too. It is hard to make more power consistently when towing and keep everything cool. You can make TONS of power for short term and have tons of fun. That is different than towing/working. The rumor is that the diesel will have almost 500ft.lbs stock at about 275hp in the Jeep.

I'm really excited about the JLU Sport with the diesel package. If the rumors are true it will be the hidden gem for that platform. The diesel package ( thought not free, but WAY less than the Rubicon ) will add the diesel engine, the 8hp70 automatic ( vs 8hp50 ), a normal 2.72 low range transfer case vs the totally unnecessary 4:1 Rubicon unit with the 8spd auto gearing, and basically open diff versions of the Rubicon D44 axles (but sport width). Rumor has it that it will get the upgraded cooling package and nose from the JT program. I might have to sell a kidney for one.
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Old 06-19-2019, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by tedlovesjeeps71 View Post
If you think those are bad, take a look at the concepts floating around for the new Jeep Grand Wagoner.

How does any designer with a soul go from this:



To this:

Looks like the Land Rover style is driving everyone’s design.
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