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Old 03-13-2010, 07:00 PM
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hey guys, its been many moons scince i was here, but that would be a whole nother thread. i'm alright, an doin ok. my ? is this, i'm lookin for a pretty good ak in 7.62x39. are the arsenal aks all that. i've looked hard at krebs, lancaster, red jacket, an the like. but i just aint givein over $1000 for it. $700-$800 is ok but not a grand. so you arsenal guys tell me about your stuff, good or bad. ok, now, i've seen some optics on aks, what do you guys say. dont need some highpriced scope on this thing, just some decent something. i'll come back an ask a few more ?s i'm sure, but this will do me for now, an as always guys, thanks for any an all info...pk
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Old 03-13-2010, 07:24 PM
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Arsenal I highly recommend them .I am an ak man and own 2 as well as some custom jobs with nothing but praise for it.It 's trigger is not Tapco but still just fine.Their weapons are excellent the are not build they are factory!!!!!!
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Old 03-13-2010, 07:55 PM
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I have an SGL 21... It's definitely the "stuff." Beats something cobbled together any day though these can be fun too... You will hear things about the finish. Personally, I don't use my rifle to sand furniture so I haven't had any problems...

Any rifle's finish can get beat up. Watch out for the harsher bore cleaners - use them on the bolt, bot carrier and barrel - on the exterior they can cause problems.

Buy it and be thankful you did before they are no more... My 1 3/4 pence...
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Old 03-13-2010, 08:03 PM
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I've got 2 Arsenals and they were worth every penny that was paid for them, my first was a SLR-107F which is a Bulgarian model with a AK100 series side folding stock. I added an UltiMak gas tube rail and added an Aimpoint T-1 red dot, this setup is awesome! Very fast target pickup and good longer range accuracy than the stock irons, I highly suggest this setup if you want to go the optic route. Here's a pic:


Nest up is my newly aquired SGL-21, it's built on a Saiga receiver and is Russian. I haven't had much time with this one yet but so far it's a great shooter as well. I haven't decided whether to optic or not yet.
Triggers on both are quite good, fit and finish are just great. I highly recommend Arsenals products! Here's my SGL:
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Old 03-13-2010, 10:23 PM
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I agree with your choice of the Ultimak gas tube... So many AK add on do-dads look neat but turn out to be junk... the Ultimak is solid as a rock and makes for the best, most stable optics patform I have found yet...
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Old 03-14-2010, 06:02 PM
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Arsenal makes great firearms. Our philosophies may differ, but I don't think an AK should cost more than about $500-550. Any higher than that and you could build/buy a more refined weapon like an AR-15. Those are my personal feelings.

That being said, check into converting a Saiga yourself. I believe Arsenal used Saiga firearms as a base gun for their stamped receiver AK's. It looks like the conversion would be some work, but a lot have successfully done it in a matter of hours. Just go slowly and be careful.

Another choice would be a TGI AMD-65. They're assembled using all Hungarian parts except for the FCG and the magazine. You cant find FEG receivers or Hungarian barrels on any other production AMD's to my knowledge. The weapons run about $400 from J&G.

Also, just use the iron sights. I don't find optics to be of any considerable use on an AK.
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Old 03-14-2010, 08:19 PM
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Arsenal makes great firearms. Our philosophies may differ, but I don't think an AK should cost more than about $500-550. Any higher than that and you could build/buy a more refined weapon like an AR-15.
Clueless and why pray tell does the almighty "refined" ar work well with a red dot and an AK wouldn't, hmmmmmmmm. Stick with whatever you might be good at but firearms aren't it...
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Old 03-14-2010, 10:10 PM
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Clueless and why pray tell does the almighty "refined" ar work well with a red dot and an AK wouldn't, hmmmmmmmm. Stick with whatever you might be good at but firearms aren't it...
I'm sorry, maybe you missed the part where I said those are my personal feelings. I'll upper case it so you cant miss it..THOSE ARE MY PERSONAL FEELINGS.

I think the ergonomics and magazine manipulation of an AR-15 are more refined than an AK. They feel more natural. Push-button release and no rocking motion just work better for me. That being said, I have a TGI Bulgy '74 on the way. So don't dare accuse me of favoritism. My philosophy of use simply differs. While some AK's may match or beat AR-15's in accuracy, it's not the norm. That's accepted. To say its not is ignorant.

There are also more optics than just red dots genius. The OP referred to OPTICS on an AK, not a RED DOT on an AK. A magnified optic would be better suited, in my opinion, on an average AR than on an average AK. A red dot would be suitable for either an average AR or an average AK. Are there differing views on this? Of course. Everyone has something that works for them.

One last thing - Keep your nose out of my business. Don't come in here with a superior attitude and don't tell me what I'm good at. You don't know me. I don't know you. Keep your mouth shut up.

**WARNING FOR MR. "TROUBLE"** - The words that form the sentences above are taken from the context of my mind. The opinions expressed are solely my own. Take them for what you will.
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Old 03-14-2010, 10:25 PM
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thanks a bunch for the info guys. trouble, those are some FINE looking aks man. i've noticed where some have a milled vs a stamped receiver. is there a whole lotta difference in milled over stamped? oh, an i really like the thought of a muzzle break also, so i would like to get a model with the brake on it also. so far i like the sa m7 (ban style) the sa m-7 A1R. an most all the SGL21models. an the SLR 107-21. out of those listed which one would you guys take over the others an why. mrtoren, i did look at some ar's an they are nice, but i just wanted a more heavy round. heck as far as that goes, i looked at many m1a's but i know that as far as ballistics go the m1a has it hands down, but the thing is my wife just simply cant hold an aim the m1a very well. its just to heavy. i need a system she can Handel. the m1a we shot tipped the scales at a modest 11 pounds. an she just couldn't do it for more than a round or 2. plus as much as we like to shoot, the .308 would get kind of expensive. oh, an i might can get the ak for dealer cost, i'll find out at work monday. as always thanks guys...pk
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Old 03-14-2010, 10:52 PM
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I'm sorry, maybe you missed the part where I said those are my personal feelings. I'll upper case it so you cant miss it..THOSE ARE MY PERSONAL FEELINGS.

I think the ergonomics and magazine manipulation of an AR-15 are more refined than an AK. They feel more natural. Push-button release and no rocking motion just work better for me. That being said, I have a TGI Bulgy '74 on the way. So don't dare accuse me of favoritism. My philosophy of use simply differs. While some AK's may match or beat AR-15's in accuracy, it's not the norm. That's accepted. To say its not is ignorant.

There are also more optics than just red dots genius. The OP referred to OPTICS on an AK, not a RED DOT on an AK. A magnified optic would be better suited, in my opinion, on an average AR than on an average AK. A red dot would be suitable for either an average AR or an average AK. Are there differing views on this? Of course. Everyone has something that works for them.
Personally I have owned both (ARSENAL AK & COLT AR) and I have to agree with you. The ergonomics of the AR are unbeatable. And do to it's modular design a 7.65 upper is an intriguing thought for me. Despite having had owned an Arsenal AK.
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Old 03-14-2010, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by paul kersey View Post
thanks a bunch for the info guys. trouble, those are some FINE looking aks man. i've noticed where some have a milled vs a stamped receiver. is there a whole lotta difference in milled over stamped? oh, an i really like the thought of a muzzle break also, so i would like to get a model with the brake on it also. so far i like the sa m7 (ban style) the sa m-7 A1R. an most all the SGL21models. an the SLR 107-21. out of those listed which one would you guys take over the others an why. mrtoren, i did look at some ar's an they are nice, but i just wanted a more heavy round. heck as far as that goes, i looked at many m1a's but i know that as far as ballistics go the m1a has it hands down, but the thing is my wife just simply cant hold an aim the m1a very well. its just to heavy. i need a system she can Handel. the m1a we shot tipped the scales at a modest 11 pounds. an she just couldn't do it for more than a round or 2. plus as much as we like to shoot, the .308 would get kind of expensive. oh, an i might can get the ak for dealer cost, i'll find out at work monday. as always thanks guys...pk
Thats respectable. Try different firearms out, see what works for you. Use what you and your wife feel comfortable with. Seriously, check out the Saiga's though. They're Russian quality AK's that need a little bit of help to transform into a true Kalashnikov. The 7.62x39 Saiga is on sale for $299 at Centerfire. Pick up a conversion kit from KVAR for $85. Then just add a little bit of elbow grease.
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Old 03-15-2010, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by trouble View Post
i've got 2 arsenals and they were worth every penny that was paid for them, my first was a slr-107f which is a bulgarian model with a ak100 series side folding stock. I added an ultimak gas tube rail and added an aimpoint t-1 red dot, this setup is awesome! Very fast target pickup and good longer range accuracy than the stock irons, i highly suggest this setup if you want to go the optic route. Here's a pic:


nest up is my newly aquired sgl-21, it's built on a saiga receiver and is russian. I haven't had much time with this one yet but so far it's a great shooter as well. I haven't decided whether to optic or not yet.
Triggers on both are quite good, fit and finish are just great. I highly recommend arsenals products! Here's my sgl:

those are crap, and you must send them to me for proper disposal.:d:
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Old 03-15-2010, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by trouble View Post
Clueless and why pray tell does the almighty "refined" ar work well with a red dot and an AK wouldn't, hmmmmmmmm. Stick with whatever you might be good at but firearms aren't it...
because it is in your hands? now give me the damn ak's!!!!
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Old 03-18-2010, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by mrtoren View Post
Arsenal makes great firearms. Our philosophies may differ, but I don't think an AK should cost more than about $500-550. Any higher than that and you could build/buy a more refined weapon like an AR-15. Those are my personal feelings.

That being said, check into converting a Saiga yourself. I believe Arsenal used Saiga firearms as a base gun for their stamped receiver AK's. It looks like the conversion would be some work, but a lot have successfully done it in a matter of hours. Just go slowly and be careful.

Another choice would be a TGI AMD-65. They're assembled using all Hungarian parts except for the FCG and the magazine. You cant find FEG receivers or Hungarian barrels on any other production AMD's to my knowledge. The weapons run about $400 from J&G.

Also, just use the iron sights. I don't find optics to be of any considerable use on an AK.
When did Arsenal use stamped receivers? Are you sure those are "real" Arsenal rifles?

All the Arsenal rifles I know have milled receivers, it is something like a trademark of their rifles, making them a no-go for AK47 purists (only a stamped receiver is a good receiver, like the originals).
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Old 03-18-2010, 01:04 PM
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When did Arsenal use stamped receivers? Are you sure those are "real" Arsenal rifles?

All the Arsenal rifles I know have milled receivers, it is something like a trademark of their rifles, making them a no-go for AK47 purists (only a stamped receiver is a good receiver, like the originals).
Arsenal offers both. If you go on their website, there is an option to view just stamped rifles or just milled rifles. Most of the stamped rifles are Saiga conversions from what I've heard. Someone more knowledgeable may chime in though.

Arsenal quality has been diminishing over the years by most accounts. Like a lot of companies, they want to make as much money as possible so shortcuts are taken. They're still a great AK, but too expensive for my tastes.
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Old 03-18-2010, 02:01 PM
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Thats respectable. Try different firearms out, see what works for you. Use what you and your wife feel comfortable with. Seriously, check out the Saiga's though. They're Russian quality AK's that need a little bit of help to transform into a true Kalashnikov. The 7.62x39 Saiga is on sale for $299 at Centerfire. Pick up a conversion kit from KVAR for $85. Then just add a little bit of elbow grease.
So what exactly is the difference between a Saiga and an AK? Are the internal parts interchangeable? Is it just the furniture that is different? The stock etc? But internally the same?
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Old 03-18-2010, 02:49 PM
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So what exactly is the difference between a Saiga and an AK? Are the internal parts interchangeable? Is it just the furniture that is different? The stock etc? But internally the same?
Just converted a Saiga 7.62X39 check out this thread:

https://www.survivalistboards.com/sho...d.php?t=101488

I would also get my conversion kit from Dinzag

http://www.dinzagarms.com/index.html

They use the Tapco G2 FCG and it is easier to work with and has a great trigger pull.

The new trigger guard is also done very well. It no longer requires nuts to complete the install.

I am very pleased with the completed job.

HH54r

Oh yeah, The Saiga and most AK clones have the same basic parts, Some are interchangable and some are not. Gas tube and front hand grip for example. Once you make the FCG conversion most everything then can be swapped. Mags are the other big issue, there is a conversion for that as well. Once all of the conversions are done, you wil have a stock AK.

Last edited by Hard Hittin 54r; 03-18-2010 at 03:01 PM.. Reason: Added info !
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Old 03-18-2010, 03:08 PM
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I went to that dinzg site and they had some pictures. So if I am mistaken it looks like the trigger is further back and that is what you converted? Also the saiga won't take regular ak mags? What is involved in that?
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Old 03-18-2010, 03:24 PM
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I went to that dinzg site and they had some pictures. So if I am mistaken it looks like the trigger is further back and that is what you converted? Also the saiga won't take regular ak mags? What is involved in that?
You will need to look at Dinzag again. You will need a bullet guide and they give instructions on the site as to what has to be gorund for Steel mag clearence. I have not done this conversion yet. It is on my list.

HH54r
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Old 03-18-2010, 03:53 PM
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I went to that dinzg site and they had some pictures. So if I am mistaken it looks like the trigger is further back and that is what you converted? Also the saiga won't take regular ak mags? What is involved in that?
Yepp, you have to move the trigger and its components forward. You can then install a pistol grip and add on a regular AK stock. Everything interchanges, though apparently magazines will need a little bit of filing. Saiga's are a pretty cheap way to get a high quality AK. I believe Arsenal uses/used converted Saiga's for some of their rifles.

Conversion guide - http://www.cross-conn.com/Saiga_Conversion/
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