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Old 06-01-2019, 07:10 PM
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PeterEnergy PeterEnergy is offline
Rom 14:1, 13; Jam 4:11-12
 
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Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
(See: Ezekiel 18:13 KJV where it states usurers are abominations and shall surely die, their blood be on their own hands. And the sole report of Jesus whipping usurers / changers / exchangers from the temple.)

Even the Roman Catholic Church capitulated, in 1918, to the usurers - ending almost 2000 years of resistance to that abomination. Ironically, the Protestant sects capitulated as early as the 15th century.
Interesting. The voice translation substitutes usury with "excessive profits" in honor of the time value of money concept. In short, why should I lend money when I can invest it elsewhere for a reasonable return?

Even Jesus recognized the time value of money and reasonable return. See the Parable of the Three Servants in Matthew 25:14-30.
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Old 06-01-2019, 09:31 PM
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Interesting. The voice translation substitutes usury with "excessive profits" in honor of the time value of money concept. In short, why should I lend money when I can invest it elsewhere for a reasonable return?

Even Jesus recognized the time value of money and reasonable return. See the Parable of the Three Servants in Matthew 25:14-30.

Do you truly think that parable was referring to money?
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Old 06-01-2019, 09:47 PM
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PeterEnergy PeterEnergy is offline
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Do you truly think that parable was referring to money?
My friend Jet said it best.

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Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
Neither. I like to hang with the "Y" guy and the Great Spirit.
Denomination?
Steam Punk Amish Kriya Yogi Christian Zen Master Galactic Overlord in training, formerly associated with the Lenni Lenape Light Brigade, currently a sequential linear time bound, partially furred, variously garbed, electrically powered, water filled, gas processing, food cooking, meat bag, inhabited by a nondimensional sentient being, in search of a rich widow to support me in the manner in which I never have been accustomed.

Custodian of nanomiracles.
Grand Marshal of the Gumpherhooberpelts.
Incapable of telling jokes - no sense of comedic timing.
Enjoys tales about saints, gurus, holy men, Marian apparitions, avatars, messiahs, alien abductions, and other folks with that "I saw God" look in their eyes.
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Old 06-01-2019, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by PeterEnergy View Post
My friend Jet said it best.


Aaannnd, you revert to the kiddie sandbox instead of serious discussion.

So be it, my friend. I had hopes for you.

Still do, actually, but you fight so hard....
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Old 06-01-2019, 10:24 PM
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Aaannnd, you revert to the kiddie sandbox instead of serious discussion.

So be it, my friend. I had hopes for you.
Yet, you asked a non-serious question?!

All parables are true about what they are talking about AND what they symbolize, e.g. vine, branches, roots, etc. Don't try to change the subject of what Jet and I were talking about, which was money.

If you want to show your pedantic "deeper" understanding have at it. (But leave me out of your rhetorical questions as a segue, along with your condescending "hopes" for me. Thanks! To put it a different way, after insulting me over and OVER and OVER again in the last few posts, don't act like my friend all of a sudden in a post - while insulting me AGAIN via kiddie sandbox comment - and expect me to take you seriously. Thanks again.)

It is as though you people have PhD in alienation.
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Old 06-01-2019, 11:15 PM
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I asked a very serious question, and you refer back to Jetgraphic's meandering comedic statement as somehow valid and serious.

I am beginning to believe that you in fact are bi-polar. (And I am not the originator of the diagnosis). I have no animosity towards you. Never have, never will. May your journey end where you wish it to.

Adios







Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterEnergy View Post
Yet, you asked a non-serious question?!

All parables are true about what they are talking about AND what they symbolize, e.g. vine, branches, roots, etc. Don't try to change the subject of what Jet and I were talking about, which was money.

If you want to show your pedantic "deeper" understanding have at it. (But leave me out of your rhetorical questions as a segue, along with your condescending "hopes" for me. Thanks! To put it a different way, after insulting me over and OVER and OVER again in the last few posts, don't act like my friend all of a sudden in a post - while insulting me AGAIN via kiddie sandbox comment - and expect me to take you seriously. Thanks again.)

It is as though you people have PhD in alienation.
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Old 06-02-2019, 02:27 AM
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PeterEnergy PeterEnergy is offline
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I asked a very serious question
Jet and I were talking about money. The parable was about money. Asking me if I really think the parable is about money indicates you know the answer but want to test me. You failed the test, so-called Christian! I’m done answering your “questions.”

You are just being contrary, repeating your BS. It was not a serious question at all - except for the insult intended, which I already explained.

Instead of asking for forgiveness to show off your “deeper” knowledge of the parable, you just double down on your ‘seriously’ insulting question. Nice!

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Originally Posted by Cabinet Maker View Post
I am beginning to believe that you in fact are bi-polar.
Adios
I’m not putting up with your egomaniacal BS and don’t care what you believe.

With friends like you, I don’t need enemies. Adios, friend.
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Old 06-03-2019, 12:00 AM
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Interesting. The voice translation substitutes usury with "excessive profits" in honor of the time value of money concept. In short, why should I lend money when I can invest it elsewhere for a reasonable return?

Even Jesus recognized the time value of money and reasonable return. See the Parable of the Three Servants in Matthew 25:14-30.
Contrary to modern interpretation, ANY INTEREST IS USURY. (Or more accurately, any gain / interest / return IN MONEY, for the loan of MONEY, is usury. If the return on investment is NOT money, it's NOT usury.)

All usury is an abomination. It's also mathematically unsustainable in a finite money token system. Compound interest requires an infinite money supply due to the exponential equation used to compute it. Aristotle pointed out that unlike "natural increase" of living things, money is a dead thing, and cannot reproduce, so that interest is a violation of natural law. (And equated to the most heinous of sins, since redemption requires restitution, which few usurers would consider, even on their death beds.)

Furthermore, the parable of the three servants is routinely misinterpreted. The preface : "The kingdom of heaven is like" is missing from earliest scriptures. The REAL meaning of the parable is that if you work for evil doers, don't be surprised when they kick you in the teeth for being virtuous and not working evil. Remember, the harsh man "reaped where he did not sow" (thief) and wanted his servants to engage in usury, the abomination.

The third servant was the virtuous one who did not wish to engage in usury, the abomination, and a capital offense pursuant to Ezekiel 18:13.

Coincidentally, every enumerated American, Christian or not, with a personal interest bearing account is a "dead man walking" and the government is absolved of all blame for actions against such abominations. That's how the Powers That Be avoid Divine Wrath, by the consent of the victims.

No instrumentality of the Federal Reserve will open an interest bearing account for an unnumbered American, bless their hearts.

References :
USURY
https://www.monetary.org/research-ar...roblem-remains
http://math.bu.edu/people/josborne/M...OfInterest.pdf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usury
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inferno_(Dante
)

Ciardi writes, "Blasphemy, sodomy, and usury are all unnatural and sterile actions..."

All religions that I personally checked categorically proscribe usury (even Satanism - go figure!). Anyone who engages in usury (interest) cannot be a member in good standing in any religion that condemns it as a mortal sin. Self righteousness notwithstanding, usurers are working for the "other team."

Soundbite version: Ezekiel 18:13 - Usurers are abominations and shall surely die, their blood be on them. Luke 6:34 - Do not lend at usury. John 2:14 - Jesus whips the usurers from the temple. Matt 25:24 - The virtuous shouldn’t work for usurers, or they’ll get punished for their virtue.

https://www.newsreview.com/sacrament...ntent?oid=7610
Historians trace the practice of usury back approximately 3,500 years, and for the vast majority of that time, it has been repeatedly condemned, scorned and prohibited for moral, ethical, religious and economic reasons. Since well before biblical times, lending money for profit has been essentially forbidden by the tenets of Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism.
. . .
Future value
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_value
To determine future value using compound interest:


(No matter what interest rate, there is a time period where the future value of a present investment matches or exceeds the whole set of finite money tokens, thus establishing the impossibility of long term usury. And it also means that a portion of debtors shall default simply because enough money never exists for all to repay their interest and principle.)

Of the three major evils plaguing Americans, usury is top of the list, and protected by the USCON (specifically, bankruptcy law and the requirement for 'hard' money, which guarantees scarcity of money and high demand for credit at usury). Those who embrace usury to their bosom are still amazed when it sinks its fangs into them, rendering them entrapped for life.


FWIW - I was in my late 30's when I discovered that usury (all banking, insurance and corporations) was an abomination. It was a shock because I had been very familiar with time value of money calculations and running what-if projections of investments versus taxes. Which raised the point : what IDIOTS eCONomists must be to ignore the fact that all usury is mathematically unsustainable. Or more likely, what idiots they think WE ARE, to embrace our tormentor and ask for more.
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Old 06-03-2019, 12:23 AM
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jetgraphics jetgraphics is offline
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Usury and the end of civilization

Usury has been redefined as excessive interest or that which is greater than the law allows. However, from antiquity, usury was defined as any interest (gain/ increase) in money, for the loan / use of money. If the gain is NOT money, it’s NOT usury.

Why? The short answer is that money is a dead thing that cannot reproduce, therefore should not be presumed to have ‘natural increase’ - or gain - for the lender.

Scriptural references:
(If he beget a son that) Hath given forth upon usury, and hath taken increase: shall he then live? he shall not live: he hath done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood shall be upon him.
Ezekiel 18:13 (KJV)
From this excerpt, we see that usury and increase (interest) is an abomination, and the usurer shall surely die and blood be on his hands.
Exodus 22:25 If thou lend money to any of my people that is poor by thee, thou shalt not be to him as an usurer, neither shalt thou lay upon him usury.
"Thou shalt not lend money...at ... usury (interest/gain/increase)"
Leviticus 25: 36 Take thou no usury of him, or increase: but fear thy God; that thy brother may live with thee.
Take no usury (increase).
Matthew 25:24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou has not strawed: And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine. His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sow not, and gather where I have not strawed: Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
"Usurers = money exchangers"
John 2:14 And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting: And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;
"Usurers = money exchangers = changers of money"

In essence, using the temple as a bank... sure made Jesus open a can of whoop ass. (You can now see how BAD usury is, when Jesus could forgive those who crucified Him, but not usurers.)

[Note: This parable in Matt 25 is routinely misinterpreted, and devoid of reference to the evils of usury. However, based on Ezekiel's condemnation [18:13], it would be absurd for God to condemn usury and promote it. Ergo, the "hard man" (Lord) cannot be a reference to God. Also note that this "hard man" reaps and gathers other people's property (thief). The third servant was afraid to engage in usury, a capital offense. IMHO, those who are in the employ of evil doers will get kicked in the teeth for being righteous.]
And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again. But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. Luke 6:34-35 (KJV)
“...lend hoping for no gain / usury.”

Because of this Biblical condemnation, Christians were forbidden to lend money for interest for centuries. In the Divine Comedy, Dante's Inferno places usurers in the seventh circle of Hell, along with blasphemers and homosexuals. In Renaissance society, the only people allowed to charge interest were Jews, which often led to resentment as the Jews were enriched by their shrewd financial activity [and disregard for the ban on usury]. However, Christian thinking on this subject has changed [under the influence of usurers perhaps], and almost all Christians now either lend their money for interest, or have an account in a bank which does it for them. The last Christian denomination to remove the ban on usury was the Roman Catholic Church, in 1918.

http://jsr.shanti.virginia.edu/back-...ological-time/

" St. Antoninus, the Archbishop of Florence (at his time — 1440 — the banking capital of Europe) remarks how usury was a mortal sin of an especially odious kind.

"...usury ever breaks and consumes the bones of the poor, day and night, on feasts and feriae, sleeping or waking it works and never ceases."

"the Tabula exemplorum, a thirteenth-century manuscript in the Bibliothèque nationale of Paris, attests: "Every man stops working on holidays, but the oxen of usury (boves usurarii) work unceasingly and thus offend God and all the saints; and since usury is an endless sin, it should in like manner be endlessly punished."

"...the vice of usury, unlike many other sins, tends to last into old age and entangles the sinner up to the hour of his death principally because usury is a peculiarly difficult sin to repent; for its forgiveness demands restitution of the profits, an act which seems too hard to a prosperous usurer."

[NOTE: Repentance requires restitution. OUCH]

Many a self righteous Christian is in dire straits, if engaged in usury. And to be eligible to contract with usurers, you need the number of the Beast (FICA / Socialist InSecurity number). No law compels participation, nor punishes non participants. It is 100% voluntary.
“The Social Security Act does not require an individual to have a Social Security Number (SSN) to live and work within the United States, nor does it require an SSN simply for the purpose of having one...”
- - - The Social Security Administration
http://home.hiwaay.net/~becraft/ScottSSNLetter.pdf
Get your own personalized letter from the SocSecAdmin . . .

SOCIAL SECURITY ACT OF 1935 FULL TEXT
http://library.clerk.house.gov/refer...alSecurity.pdf


Read the law yourself, if you don't believe me.
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