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Old 08-27-2013, 12:51 PM
survivalscience survivalscience is offline
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Default Warm Outer Layer



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I need a very warm outer layer. I would typically be wearing an under armour cold gear compression shirt, a tshirt,and a long sleeve, then my outer layer. this doesnt have to be waterproof because i have a poncho and a gore tex military parka, but i need something very warm for the harsh CT winters.
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Old 08-27-2013, 02:02 PM
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Literally the cheapest solution, if you didn't want to spend the money.......

Syntheitc--- any long sleeved shirt

Then a couple layers of fleece

Then a waterproof windbreaker type jacket.


I wear this for work. I would wear more wool, but quality wool needs to be either hand washed or dri cleaned, and I don't want to wash 3 different outfits every day of the weak.
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Old 08-27-2013, 03:57 PM
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i already have the water proof with a gore tex parka and a poncho, and my under armour/cotton shirts will keep me plenty warm down to freezing but i dont want something that is bulky/puffy...

i was thinking something loike this.

http://lrbushcraft.com/html/100__woo...t_-_wool_.html
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Old 08-27-2013, 04:33 PM
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Default Kotton Kills

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cotton shirts will keep me plenty warm down to freezing...
until they get wet from perspiration. Skip the cotton and get wool or synthetic layers.
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Old 08-27-2013, 04:44 PM
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until they get wet from perspiration. Skip the cotton and get wool or synthetic layers.
thanks for the advise but i know what im doing. I just dont know 1 items i would have to choose for an open ended time. i can go to walmart and buy 10 sweatshirts that i can beat up and repurchase for less than a days worth of work each year.

In CT i landscape and do construction year round 7 days a week and i have never worn synhetic wool or under armour. in my kit i have 1 under armour, 2 cotton t-shirts, 2 cotton long sleeves, a gore tex parka and hopefully that wool shirt. i dont have an infinite amount of money to spend
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Old 08-27-2013, 06:26 PM
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Lots of options depending on what activity and environment you face.
The single best long term outer layer for working in the winter is a Carhart insulated coverall.
They used to make similar clothing from nylon and Dacron insulation called "Snowmobile Suits".

For hunting in very cold conditions I wear a wool Camo park.

For just sitting in very cold conditions I used a down parka.
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Old 08-27-2013, 10:33 PM
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I have 2 options I use: a Propper polyester Polartec 300 fleece; and an Aran genuine Irish wool sweater.

The Irish wool is honestly a bit too warm, even with all the space between the "chain-mail" like design. Plus its kind of a special piece.

The fleece is something much cheaper and easily replaceable and frankly breathes better than wool. so its the most used and abused option.

I also have surplus usgi wool field shirts (long sleeves) but they dont keep me as warm in subzero temps as the polartec.

i do think cotton is worse for people who just perspire and sweat more than the next guy - other than that, its use in winter has been criticized a bit too indiscriminately. a 100% cotton tee to me (long sleeve or short sleeve, doesnt matter) is an excellent breathing layer. I like my UA Cold Gear 3.0 clothing too but cotton doesn't get anywhere near as stinky as them. same thing with cotton socks vice synthetic or even wool blends... I know I am being blasphemous. YMMV. But at the same time, I'd never wear jeans again on winter overnight outings (denim is cotton). Pants get water/snow easily and they will become icy weights in no time (been there); i use only nylon waterproof outers over wool or synthetic warm pants/long johns.

Stay away from anything acrylic, much worse than 100% cotton. No warmth at all.
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Old 08-28-2013, 12:02 AM
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my problem with most things wind/waterproof is the noise they mae when moving, i need something stealthy.
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Old 08-28-2013, 02:12 PM
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Carhartt standard or Arctic Bibs and Parka or Coverall. Probably standard if you are wearing the other layers.

Just my opinion.
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Old 08-29-2013, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Jerry D Young View Post
Carhartt standard or Arctic Bibs and Parka or Coverall. Probably standard if you are wearing the other layers.

Just my opinion.
I was unclear what this is truly for, my fault and my apologies...

I have prepared,except for a few last items, an INCH bag for EWLS.

this could be needed for any number of reasons, and the reason is irrelevant, the only thing that matters is that something COULD happen. it could be any of the following...

Nuclear strike
Economic Instability that empties masses out of NYC or smaller cities around making my town uninhabitable
Foreign Invasion
Solar Flare / EMP strike
Natural Disaters
or any other unforseeable event.

Like i said the reason is unimportant, what is important is being prepared for anything and everything.

As far as clothing goes, And as far as location goes, I think it is safe to say that I live in an area with one of the widest variesties of weather.

We are garunteed everything from snow and sub zero temperatures to 100 degree weather extrememly high in humidity, droughts, and hurricanes.

As far as clothing goes, and I am not asking for criticism because every person's reaction to climate, and physical fitness is different. for example, from landscaping and doing construction all the time, it seems by body is extremely flexible when it comes to temperature. During the winter i dont get cold, except for my fingers and toes. during the summer, my african american freinds always end up begging me to turn the AC on because they are too hot.

That being said my clothing is simple.

1 pair Nike Free running shoes.
1 pair Bates winter boots
1 pair of insoles made for running marathons.
2 pairs of low cut socks
3 pairs of wool hiking socks
3 pairs of Under armour compression underware
1 Under armour Cold gear Long sleeve
2 grey cotton tank tops
2 cotton Camo T- shirts
1 BDU camo pants

things i have yet to buy but have already made my mind on...

1 Under Armour cond gear compression leggings
2 cotton camo Long sleeve
1 Under Armour OD Green Gym short
1 military issue gore tex camo parka
1 camo poncho
1 camo BDU pants
I predict that will be everything i need, except that warm thick layer.

As long as i am not idle, the under armour cold gear long sleeve, and 2 cotton layers will be sufficient down to about 40F (i know first hand that it will be enough because i do it every day.) But for less intense periods in the day, Im looking for something that i can wear to keep me super warm, so far I really like the idea of that warm wool hoodie, and if it rains i throw the parka on. If I need to wear each layer of cotton t-shirt, so be it. When i was working outside in the months of dec, jan, feb, i would but on a cotton tank top, a cotton sleeveless shirt, a cotton thermal, a cotton long sleeve, and then a cotton sweathshirt, i would end up shedding the sweatshirt everyday. I do understand the concern about cotton, and MAYBE i need a long sleve layer that is windproof, for when im not wearing the gore tex parka. Under the unchangable premise that you would be carrying an Under Armour Long Sleeve, 2 cotton t- shirts, 1 gore tex parka, and 2 cotton long sleeve, what else would you bring?

I personally have my heart set on the Wool Hoodie, and either those 2 cotton camo long sleeve or some type of wind/water resistant layer, that i could wear down to freezing temp as an outer layer that would also serve as a great layer underneath the wool hodie.

the layer that im talking about could be something like this. preferably in a nature friendly color, but if need be i can wear the cotton camo shirt on the outside.

http://www.backcountry.com/marmot-or...BzaGlydHM6MToz
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Old 08-29-2013, 02:04 PM
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The selections you have made sound good to me for down to about 0 degrees F. I think you need something else for temps below 0 degree F.

The Carhartts would be for use over the base layer, the shirt and BDU pants, w/o the additional layers. Layering is good, but there is a limit to it. Charhartt gives a tough, and once worn in, nearly silent, outer layer that will protect down to -30 degrees F or less, depending on the specific lining used in the parkas, bibs, and coveralls, and if fitted properly, will allow one to work and work well in all conditions, without that bundled up feeling with 4, 5, or even 6 layers to reach the same temperature protection level.

http://www.carhartt.com/webapp/wcs/s...earch&x=22&y=5

These are the Arctic version. They have the same things in lighter linings for less severe weather.

Just my opinion.
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Old 08-29-2013, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Jerry D Young View Post
The selections you have made sound good to me for down to about 0 degrees F. I think you need something else for temps below 0 degree F.

The Carhartts would be for use over the base layer, the shirt and BDU pants, w/o the additional layers. Layering is good, but there is a limit to it. Charhartt gives a tough, and once worn in, nearly silent, outer layer that will protect down to -30 degrees F or less, depending on the specific lining used in the parkas, bibs, and coveralls, and if fitted properly, will allow one to work and work well in all conditions, without that bundled up feeling with 4, 5, or even 6 layers to reach the same temperature protection level.

http://www.carhartt.com/webapp/wcs/s...earch&x=22&y=5

These are the Arctic version. They have the same things in lighter linings for less severe weather.

Just my opinion.
jerry,
i know you are a more than smart guy, and you answered the question about natural ways of obtaining salt better than i would have hoped somebody to answer, but the overalls look like they take up too much space for something. somebody in another thread tried to sway me away from brining an entrenching tool, and told me to look at a folding trowel instead. prior to that discussion i had already seen the trowel but made the exact same arguement in my head that he presented, and iam still keeping the e-tool.

also, atleast in CT it doesnt often get sub zero during the day, at night ill be bundled up in a recon 5 military sleeping bag under a wool blanket hopefully next to a fire with some walls to block the wind.

that being said i think im going to purchase this along with the wool hoodie.

http://www.underarmour.com/shop/us/e...pid1239586-264

those coveralls look very cozy though

I knowi mentioned boots, but I still havnt picked out a good pair of winter boots preferable as waterproof as possible and composite toe. any ideas?
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Old 08-29-2013, 03:35 PM
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I guess I misunderstood the requirement. If you only need to protect down to 0 you are probably in good shape with your selections.

I'm definitely with you on the e-tool (I use a Cold Steel e-tool. Don't like the folders.). A trowel is fine for a day hike, but for serious, more than two days in the wild, a full e-tool is extremely useful.

For insulated winter boots, check Danner, Redwing, and Cabella's. LaCrosse and L.L. Bean for pac type boots.

If you have a good pair of boots, but need better cold weather/water proof protection, check NEOS over-boots.

Just my opinion.
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Old 08-29-2013, 04:00 PM
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i dont know if you are farmiliar with the Nike Free's but they are extremely light, basically a moccasin with lightweight rubber/foam sole, but i have landscaped/done construction even in the middle of the winter they provide zero insulation, i just need something to go to when im doing rugged work, but still am able tocomfortable trek a few miles, which is the reason for the composite toe, because the nike frees will rip easily if im not careful,

and i say this reluctantly... you said you dont like the folding shovels? why not?
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Old 08-29-2013, 09:35 PM
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The old models, as good as they were, could get gummed up quickly with mud and become almost impossible to open and close.

The actual GI tri-fold is pretty good, and does okay, but getting a real one is problematical. Most of the tri-folds I've seen on-line and at gun shows are knockoffs, and not nearly as stout and well made as those made to original GI specification by original manufacturers.

And while the flat top of the triangular handle is good for scooping, it is less effective as a fighting tool than the straight handle of the Cold Steel e-tool. And where the good, all steel tri-fold weighs in at 36 ounces, the Cold Steel wooden handle is on 27 ounces. The overall length is about 23" vs the 20" of the Cold Steel. The Cold Steel straight handle is easier to manipulate when using the shovel head as a cooking surface, plate, or what not. Where, with the shape of it, the tri-fold pretty much needs to be carried 'in' something, the case or the pack, the straight handle Cold Steel can be slipped into a loop, used with its case (not that great, though), thrust through a belt strap on a pack for much easier and quicker access for immediate use.

Just some of the factors that have me using the Cold Steel e-tool rather than even a true, original, all-steel GI tri-fold.

A good substitute for the Cold Steel e-tool is to take one of the small, curved blade, long handled garden shovels (not trowels) and cut the handle down to 20" - 24". I like the curved blade a bit more for digging as well as scooping. But the overall blade size is smaller and the curvature isn't as good as a fighting tool as the straighter, flatter blade of the Cold Steel e-tool. But I still carry the cut down shovel that I used as a plumber for digging under houses in the truck for general duty.

Just my opinion.
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Old 08-29-2013, 10:56 PM
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after doing some research...
you sold me, its cold steel shovel on one side of the pack, axe on the other side of the pack
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Old 08-29-2013, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by survivalscience View Post
my problem with most things wind/waterproof is the noise they mae when moving, i need something stealthy.
They make soft shell goretex, very quiet, but it's pricey....

I have one similar to this that I bought for half the price at an outlet...keep in mind that if you destroy it, wear it out...ect, they will replace it with no questions asked....that's for a lifetime by the way.

I've owned mine for about 6 years now and it's worth every penny.

http://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/78136...a-001b2166becc

The thing about cotton is that it loses it's insulating properties when it gets wet, in cold weather that can be a death sentence if you don't or cant get out of them in a 24 hour multiplied by an unknown number of days survival setting.

They do make water proof fleece, but I have really only used the soft shell gore tex and have no experience with using just the fleece in a down pour.

And of course there are other options, weighed against cost, weight and preferences...

Also, I live in NH and wear this as a winter jacket with poly pro and/or fleece base layers. I stay nice and cozy....
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Old 08-29-2013, 11:26 PM
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Arcteryx Atom LT - not bulky great as a mid layer not waterproof but resistant. Wore it all of last winter no complaints. They do run small to size though.

http://leaf.arcteryx.com/Product.asp...tom-LT-Jacket#
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Old 08-30-2013, 01:30 AM
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I have 2 jackets for winter. A 15yr+ old green & black Gore-Tex Northface Parka. I layer with a fleece jacket + a wool surplus US Marine sweater and if cold enough polypropylene long underwear or old gi issue wool long underwear + wool socks, boots, and whatever pants + gloves, black wool ski cap, or ball cap with ear muffs.

My other jacket is this Carhartt in green:

http://candkclothing.com/carhartt_j141.html
These coats are usually on sale in that C&K store for 40% to 60% off. It's a heavy warm coat. If really cold out I'll wear the same combo as above underneath it.

Only negative about the jacket is it's heavy and it could stand to be a hair longer in the waist even in the XL Tall size.

This jacket might be even more idea as it's alittle longer and give you more pockets:
http://www.carhartt.com/webapp/wcs/s...uickView=false


Figure a Carhartt jacket will last a lifetime.
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