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Old 04-24-2020, 02:20 PM
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A rarity in these days of absolutely bat **** insane responses to the new strain of the common cold, Sweden did NOT go on lockdown. Instead, they realized that it wouldn't do any good, and that it would crush their economy.

Now, because they didn't go off the deep end, they are almost on the downward side of the slope because they are reaching the turning point of herd immunity.

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/04/22/...-in-weeks.html

So anyone who credits the lockdown/crackdown/quarantine for the fact that we all didn't die, point them to Sweden, who got over it the same way we all have for thousands of years. And they did it without destroying every family business and taking on trillions in debt and making everyone a ward of the state.

It's a sad day when we have to take pointers on liberty from a bunch of Eurosocialists.
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Old 04-24-2020, 02:43 PM
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HD, as you well know, the USA has a great many strengths, but good behavior may not among them. The Euro's in question still have a largely homogeneous population and they do behave well. We are just a bit more rowdy and many of us will gladly infect each other without so much as a moments care.

Even so, I can only side with freedom and oppose all these unconstitutional lock downs. That's for the other guy, not us. I feel like I'm the one responsible for my own protection.

I think the hope was that given time, we'd find a viable method of treatment. That seems not to have happened yet.
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Old 04-24-2020, 03:24 PM
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People have been running around for several months, with their hair on fire while proclaiming the sky is falling. I pointed out to many that our civil and constitutional rights were being usurped. Many replied, that itís Ok because the govt is taking care of us. Some even replied that although the govt has taken our rights, itís better to be alive.

Now that the damage to America has become apparent, those same people want to complain about it. They say they lost their rights. They didnít loose their rights. They gladly and eagerly gave them away! Now they complain after the fact.....Fíem.
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Old 04-24-2020, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by PaulKersey View Post
They gladly and eagerly gave them away!
While I believe I've been exceedingly careful, I've also taken advantage of my liberties. I've been flying my plane, going to the airport, (visually) shopping for a car and so on.

What I have not done is put others at risk, just in case I was carrying the virus.

HD, I'd suggest that "herd immunity" is unproven at this point. While we expect typical behavior from this virus, there have been a few surprises. If, as many suggest, this behaves like the common cold, it could come back, over and over, culling more and more. Losses of 50K per month are more than just unfortunate, that is unsustainable. Remember, over the course of WW-II, on average, we lost less than 300 people per day.
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Old 04-24-2020, 05:49 PM
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SWEDEN DIDN'T have to go into lockdown because the pols knew the people would keep good social distancing, keep washing their hands, and obey the guidelines set out to keep things running and they do not have the population densities we have in our big cities. They are raised differently. They have a collective social conscience. They also bent over and took it from the Nazis without a whimper despite being "neutral" ... so they have history of "just following orders"

BUT
in THIS country

We have a LARGE group of people in this country who do not play well with others.

Without the closings they would be at the bar every night sucking face with strangers and not giving one tinkers damn about whether they spread the virus or not because the only person in the whole world that matters is THAT specific individual and screw everyone else.
and
as infectious as this thing is AND IT IS NOT THE COMMON FLU. without the closings and lock downs, it would have spread to multiples of the infected of the population by now.

It is like school, someone would do something stupid and everyone would have to suffer the consequences... just like our weird gun laws, one person goes off the track and everyone has to pay for it.

And as for Swedens plan..
""Unfortunately the mortality rate is high due to the introduction (of the virus) in elderly care homes and we are investigating the cause of that," he said."

I guess we just tell our older more susceptible folks "Sorry about that." so we can bar hop one more day.
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Old 04-24-2020, 06:56 PM
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Bar hop. Do people still do that? Really?

Anyone that stupid deserves what they get. A little gene pool trimming isnít always a bad thing
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Old 04-24-2020, 08:41 PM
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and Sweden ranks:

10th in deaths/1M pop
14th in total deaths

... out of 210 countries


... that's not something to be proud of for a country with a universal for all health care system that is mainly government-funded.
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Old 04-24-2020, 08:48 PM
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I think Sweden got it right. Even though I'm older I think allowing us to suffer with the virus and allow it to run its course would have been a better decision. It would have been a gene pool correction and most of us oldsters would be eliminated. We would have lost more people but saved our economy. Now we are turning into Socialists wanting government to look after us and sacrificing our security and constitutional rights. We could have sucked it up and come out way ahead. Now we are so deep in the deficit spending hole we will never get out.
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Old 04-24-2020, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by NW GUY View Post
SWEDEN DIDN'T have to go into lockdown because the pols knew the people would keep good social distancing, keep washing their hands, and obey the guidelines set out to keep things running and they do not have the population densities we have in our big cities. They are raised differently. They have a collective social conscience. They also bent over and took it from the Nazis without a whimper despite being "neutral" ... so they have history of "just following orders"

BUT
in THIS country

We have a LARGE group of people in this country who do not play well with others.

Without the closings they would be at the bar every night sucking face with strangers and not giving one tinkers damn about whether they spread the virus or not because the only person in the whole world that matters is THAT specific individual and screw everyone else.
and
as infectious as this thing is AND IT IS NOT THE COMMON FLU. without the closings and lock downs, it would have spread to multiples of the infected of the population by now.

It is like school, someone would do something stupid and everyone would have to suffer the consequences... just like our weird gun laws, one person goes off the track and everyone has to pay for it.

And as for Swedens plan..
""Unfortunately the mortality rate is high due to the introduction (of the virus) in elderly care homes and we are investigating the cause of that," he said."

I guess we just tell our older more susceptible folks "Sorry about that." so we can bar hop one more day.
Yes, sums it up. America loves its freedom and everyone does their own thing. In the store some people follow the one way arrows, some do not. Some wear masks and some do not.

I think people like to have hope in heard immunity. You would think we would have heard immunity by now for the common cold and flu. Well, with states opening up we will see what haps with the virus. The proof of the puddin will be in the eatin. They could use GA as a test. Shut it off from the rest of the country and let it fester in CV for 3 months and see what develops. That reminds me, I want to make some spoonbread tomorrow and plot a dallop of sour cream on it!
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Old 04-24-2020, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by NW GUY View Post
SWEDEN DIDN'T have to go into lockdown because the pols knew the people would keep good social distancing, keep washing their hands, and obey the guidelines set out to keep things running and they do not have the population densities we have in our big cities. They are raised differently. They have a collective social conscience. They also bent over and took it from the Nazis without a whimper despite being "neutral" ... so they have history of "just following orders"

BUT
in THIS country

We have a LARGE group of people in this country who do not play well with others.

Without the closings they would be at the bar every night sucking face with strangers and not giving one tinkers damn about whether they spread the virus or not because the only person in the whole world that matters is THAT specific individual and screw everyone else.
and
as infectious as this thing is AND IT IS NOT THE COMMON FLU. without the closings and lock downs, it would have spread to multiples of the infected of the population by now.

It is like school, someone would do something stupid and everyone would have to suffer the consequences... just like our weird gun laws, one person goes off the track and everyone has to pay for it.

And as for Swedens plan..
""Unfortunately the mortality rate is high due to the introduction (of the virus) in elderly care homes and we are investigating the cause of that," he said."

I guess we just tell our older more susceptible folks "Sorry about that." so we can bar hop one more day.
Except that the Swedes HAVEN'T been social distancing. They've been going to work and school and sporting events and sitting next to each other and shaking hands and breathing down each others' necks in grocery store lines and using the urinal right next to the other guy.

This isn't the Black Death. It's a new strain of the common cold. Just because they gave this one strain a scary name doesn't make it any deadlier than the last major novel strain of the common cold, which probably killed a similar percentage of people without destroying civilization.
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Old 04-24-2020, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by slackercruster View Post
Yes, sums it up. America loves its freedom and everyone does their own thing. In the store some people follow the one way arrows, some do not. Some wear masks and some do not.

I think people like to have hope in heard immunity. You would think we would have heard immunity by now for the common cold and flu. Well, with states opening up we will see what haps with the virus. The proof of the puddin will be in the eatin. They could use GA as a test. Shut it off from the rest of the country and let it fester in CV for 3 months and see what develops. That reminds me, I want to make some spoonbread tomorrow and plot a dallop of sour cream on it!
Ummm... we DO have herd immunity from the cold and flu. There are countless strains of rhinovirus and coronavirus that we collectively call "the common cold." How many people die from any given strain in a particular year? Very few. The same is true of the influenza virus, all the strains of which are collectively referred to as "the flu."

In a couple of years, the SARS Cov 2 strain that causes COVID19 will be just another strain of the common cold. It will mutate here and there and make a few people miserable, and even kill a few. Just like every other strain. Big whoop.
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Old 04-25-2020, 12:03 PM
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and Sweden ranks:

10th in deaths/1M pop
14th in total deaths

... out of 210 countries


... that's not something to be proud of for a country with a universal for all health care system that is mainly government-funded.
They're 10th because so many have been exposed to the virus already, meaning it has almost run its course. All of the countries that are whimpering in the corner and trying to "flatten the curve" have fewer deaths because they're going to take a little longer for as many people to be exposed.

Ultimately, everyone will be exposed. If a vaccination is more than a few months out, it won't end up doing any good. We're not saving millions of lives with our response. Maybe we've drawn out the process by a couple of months. But most of what we have accomplished by our response is to destroy the world's greatest economy and saddle our children with debt they will never be able to repay.
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Old 04-25-2020, 01:48 PM
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They're 10th because so many have been exposed to the virus already, meaning it has almost run its course. All of the countries that are whimpering in the corner and trying to "flatten the curve" have fewer deaths because they're going to take a little longer for as many people to be exposed.
really? Listen to yourself...

Sweden is 10th because more people have died....

and the rest have less deaths because they are whimpering in a corner, taking a little longer for as many people to be exposed"???

So you're MAD because peoples lives were saved???


Swedens government chose to accept more deaths than less... Their government gets to do that.... That's because Sweden is a psuedo-socialist consitutional monarchy.... PIT is 61.85%, 7% SS tax, and a 25% percent consumption tax. They have enormous taxes to provide healthcare... yet the Swedish government CHOSE to accept more deaths than less... mighty big of them.... Thats the reason their death count is higher....


Quote:
Originally Posted by Harmless Drudge View Post
Ultimately, everyone will be exposed. If a vaccination is more than a few months out, it won't end up doing any good. We're not saving millions of lives with our response. Maybe we've drawn out the process by a couple of months. But most of what we have accomplished by our response is to destroy the world's greatest economy and saddle our children with debt they will never be able to repay.
There is no vaccination NOW. If this thing comes back in the fall... and what we are going through now was just a warm up... what will you say then?

Once Nixon severed the gold tie in 1973 that debt was never going to be repaid... only grown. Stop deluding yourself.

The truth is, most of the National Debt is owed to Social Security and pension funds. This means U.S. citizens (via their retirement) own most of the national debt. So a "writing down" of that debt via default or some other vehicle would mean the wealth destruction of those who CURRENTLY hold financial instruments secured by that debt. The idea that our children will have to repay that debt is fallacy, pure fallacy... why?

Because in the whole of recorded economic history... repayment by subsequent generations has never happened.

All economies fail, all countries go bust. History is 100% accurate in this regard.
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Old 04-25-2020, 02:27 PM
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At 65 I'm in one of the higher risk groups and so are many of my friends and family. But I would rather live with a slightly higher risk of death than place such a huge burden on those younger than me. How many Americans died fighting for freedom? But now we are commanded to give up some of that freedom they died fighting for in order to maybe save a few lives.

I think there is much more going on here than just protecting us from this virus. I think the liberal cult is using the tactic of not letting a crisis go to waste, and as part of that plan they want to blow the crisis up as much as they can. The current objective of that army of traitors is to remove Trump, and the only way they can do that is to ruin his great economy, and then let their propaganda machines blame the ruined economy on him.

I decided a long time ago that I was not going to live in fear. Those who do will find one day that they got old and will die anyway, and they never lived their lives. We should remember that the death rate always remains exactly the same: one per person.

It is a sad commentary on our time when Sweden is more free than America. Sweden is letting its people decide what level of quarantine each of them wants to take. The government of Sweden is not killing its people; it is letting its people decide what risk they want to live with.

They might end up with a higher death rate, but once it has swept through they'll be done with it, because so many of them will have developed an immunity to it.

And their economy will not be devastated like ours has been.

Let America be the land of the free it was founded to be: let the people decide the level of risk each of us wants to take. We do not need a big brother making that decision for us.
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Old 04-25-2020, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Steverino View Post
really? Listen to yourself...

Sweden is 10th because more people have died....

and the rest have less deaths because they are whimpering in a corner, taking a little longer for as many people to be exposed"???

So you're MAD because peoples lives were saved???


Swedens government chose to accept more deaths than less... Their government gets to do that.... That's because Sweden is a psuedo-socialist consitutional monarchy.... PIT is 61.85%, 7% SS tax, and a 25% percent consumption tax. They have enormous taxes to provide healthcare... yet the Swedish government CHOSE to accept more deaths than less... mighty big of them.... Thats the reason their death count is higher....




There is no vaccination NOW. If this thing comes back in the fall... and what we are going through now was just a warm up... what will you say then?

Once Nixon severed the gold tie in 1973 that debt was never going to be repaid... only grown. Stop deluding yourself.

The truth is, most of the National Debt is owed to Social Security and pension funds. This means U.S. citizens (via their retirement) own most of the national debt. So a "writing down" of that debt via default or some other vehicle would mean the wealth destruction of those who CURRENTLY hold financial instruments secured by that debt. The idea that our children will have to repay that debt is fallacy, pure fallacy... why?

Because in the whole of recorded economic history... repayment by subsequent generations has never happened.

All economies fail, all countries go bust. History is 100% accurate in this regard.
Sweden has had a higher mortality rate because they have a much higher infection rate, thus a much higher post-infection immunity rate, thus approaching herd immunity and normalization.

That is to say, we are ALL going to be exposed before there is a vaccine. We are drawing out the process. Divide Sweden's mortality rate against the higher number of infected and they're no worse off.

So why point out the difference? Because they're not destroying their economy to draw out the process. When we have an infection rate similar to theirs, we will have a mortality rate similar to theirs, but we will have destroyed every small business and created trillions and trillions of debt for our children and grandchildren, conditioned everyone to expect to receive their sustenance from government, and normalized restrictions of natural rights and civil liberties.

So a month from now, Sweden will already have this largely in its rear view mirror, and not have shot itself in the foot, while we are still scrambling for government scraps and hiding in the corner while our children ask us how they are every going to pay for our mistakes.
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Old 04-25-2020, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Steverino View Post
and Sweden ranks:

10th in deaths/1M pop
14th in total deaths

... out of 210 countries


... that's not something to be proud of for a country with a universal for all health care system that is mainly government-funded.
That's kind of like saying that the golfer on the 18th hole is doing so poorly because the golfer on the first hole has so many fewer strokes. Yeah, well how many strokes will that golfer on the first hole have when he gets to the 18th hole?
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Old 04-25-2020, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Steverino View Post
really? Listen to yourself...

Sweden is 10th because more people have died....

and the rest have less deaths because they are whimpering in a corner, taking a little longer for as many people to be exposed"???

So you're MAD because peoples lives were saved???


Swedens government chose to accept more deaths than less... Their government gets to do that.... That's because Sweden is a psuedo-socialist consitutional monarchy.... PIT is 61.85%, 7% SS tax, and a 25% percent consumption tax. They have enormous taxes to provide healthcare... yet the Swedish government CHOSE to accept more deaths than less... mighty big of them.... Thats the reason their death count is higher....




There is no vaccination NOW. If this thing comes back in the fall... and what we are going through now was just a warm up... what will you say then?

Once Nixon severed the gold tie in 1973 that debt was never going to be repaid... only grown. Stop deluding yourself.

The truth is, most of the National Debt is owed to Social Security and pension funds. This means U.S. citizens (via their retirement) own most of the national debt. So a "writing down" of that debt via default or some other vehicle would mean the wealth destruction of those who CURRENTLY hold financial instruments secured by that debt. The idea that our children will have to repay that debt is fallacy, pure fallacy... why?

Because in the whole of recorded economic history... repayment by subsequent generations has never happened.

All economies fail, all countries go bust. History is 100% accurate in this regard.
The one paying the bill is the one who has a vested interest in controlling costs. Yes, their system is wasteful and inefficient, but would a truly free market not have had any price pressures in the direction away from lockdowns that amount to economic suicide?

In fact, our response to this pandemic is far less of a free market response than theirs. They are allowed to gauge the risks of being out and about in the wide world at large, and some Swedes have barricaded themselves in their homes. Far more, however, are out enjoying life. On balance, life has continued as normal, while we cower in fear of security theatre.

Our response to this virus is much like our response to 9/11: a whole lot of motion and little action. Give up liberty here, pay more taxes there, take on a load over debt all over. We're not stopping the virus. We're just making people "feel" as though they are "making a difference," while the reality is that we're just making them comfortable as wards of the state.
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Old 04-25-2020, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by deprogramming services View Post
I think there is much more going on here than just protecting us from this virus. I think the liberal cult is using the tactic of not letting a crisis go to waste, and as part of that plan they want to blow the crisis up as much as they can. The current objective of that army of traitors is to remove Trump, and the only way they can do that is to ruin his great economy, and then let their propaganda machines blame the ruined economy on him.
ABSOLUTELY!

All you need to know is how the vile **** nasty piglosi has done everything in her power to bankrupt the working class and small businesses while completely flipping the narrative to blame Trump for the crap that she is doing.

Look at the dem governors vs. the republican ones. The dems are trying to drag this out as long as possible while imposing draconian rules on their citizens. Thankfully the PEOPLE have had a belly full of their crap and are protesting across the country and ignoring the nonsense.

My state is opening completely on May 1. We don't have a state lock down order, it's a strong suggestion. Individual cities such as SLC are a different story. I was out on the motorcycle today and there are people EVERYWHERE. I saw probably 30 motorcycles in a row heading up the canyon. There were walkers, bicyclists, runners, moms pushing strollers, people working in their yards and cars filling up at the gas station.

The end is near and that's a good thing.
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Old 04-25-2020, 08:49 PM
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This isn't the Black Death. It's a new strain of the common cold. Just because they gave this one strain a scary name doesn't make it any deadlier than the last major novel strain of the common cold, which probably killed a similar percentage of people without destroying civilization.
It is roughly four times deadlier than flu in Sweden so far, when comparing whole influenza season 2018-2019 to current covid-19 season. Counting only lab confirmed cases.

Sources: https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/...den/?pub=63511
https://www.worldometers.info/corona...ountry/sweden/

Current Swedish death count % is about double the US count (12% vs 5.6% if I remember correctly). Actually interesting number would be amount of people in hospital care out of total infected.

In any case if one would double the cases in US it would mean lot more than double the fatalities simply because there would not be room for all the sick people at once (also more sick people = spreads even more and faster). Or quadruple the amount of influenza cases from US in 2018-29 season.

There are restrictions and guidelines in place, people just don't follow them:
https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/l...ller-i-sverige
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Old 04-25-2020, 09:28 PM
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HD, as you well know, the USA has a great many strengths, but good behavior may not among them. The Euro's in question still have a largely homogeneous population and they do behave well. We are just a bit more rowdy and many of us will gladly infect each other without so much as a moments care.
Thank you for saying the very thing I was thinking, but saying it a helluva lot politer than I would have.
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