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Old 06-15-2019, 12:14 AM
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Probably forgiving myself for the lousy things I have done.
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Old 06-15-2019, 01:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Sloth View Post
What's the hardest part of your Christian walk?
_____
What ISN'T hard about the Christian walk?

I think it is a lot of work to be a Christian, their are so many temptations in this world and one really needs to lean on the Lord and cooperate with his Grace, to fend off the temptations.

If I could choose one thing that is the hardest. I would actually choose one of the conditions for a mortal sin.

The idea of wanting to sin, even though you know it will disappoint God, then choosing to do it anyways....
It's a bad feeling afterwards and it tends to put an emptiness on my soul.


I know this feeling all too well. It's an empty feeling, but it's also, for me, a feeling of being sickened by my own behavior. A desperate, shaking feeling like you experience as you are in the midst of a bad fall, that split second you realize you're falling and it's going to be bad when you hit the ground. A horrible feeling.

I resisted the choice to sin recently. It was terribly hard, but I did. And I felt better, even after all the harsh words and the fallout, than I ever would have had I chosen to sin. It's led to so many better things than other choices I could have made, and I thank God for lending me the strength to resist what I couldn't have on my own.
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Old 06-15-2019, 05:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Eddie_T View Post
Probably forgiving myself for the lousy things I have done.
You are so right! I forgot about that one.

Forgiving ourselves for past mistakes. Seems the evil one loves to remind us of the past. Strange how often that can be the toughest one.

Good word Eddie.....thanks!
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Old 06-15-2019, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by NCalHippie View Post
However, since I made a personal connection with the Holy Spirit, I have not had these issues. Where I once hated, I now Love as best as I can.
Yea, ‘the best as I can part’ is where the challenge is.
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Old 06-15-2019, 01:34 PM
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There is no such thing as "Self-Forgivness" in the Bible
Bizarre notion in light of all the Bible says
Sounds nice, but not a thing in this context
I actually have been blessed by this malaprop of sorts
The past can vexing to a detrimental extreme and destructive to dwell on
The closest thing is Paul's direction in Philippians about forgetting the past
3:12-15

… 12Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been perfected, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have laid hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14I press on toward the goal to win the prize of God’s heavenly calling in Christ Jesus. 15All of us who are mature should embrace this point of view. And if you think differently about some issue, God will reveal this to you as well.…

Even Jim Morrison knew this


"Well, your fingers weave quick minarets
Speak in secret alphabets
I light another cigarette
Learn to forget, learn to forget
Learn to forget, learn to forget"
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Old 06-15-2019, 02:53 PM
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There is no such thing as "Self-Forgivness" in the Bible
Bizarre notion in light of all the Bible says
Sounds nice, but not a thing in this context
I don’t think so and doubt the ancients thought in terms of making this point explicit. That is, it goes without saying a pre-requisite for asking others and God to forgive you is that you have forgiven yourself.
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Old 06-15-2019, 03:01 PM
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Yea, ‘the best as I can part’ is where the challenge is.
Very true, but I find it is much easier with a direct connection than working through a middleman.
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Old 06-15-2019, 04:08 PM
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Not being able to love my enemies rather than hate / murder them. I try and remind myself that Paul was just as vile before God knocked him off that horse, and so too the modern Sauls could yet see the light. Then I catch a sound bite of some Hollywood blowbag mocking my faith / values .... and I imagine what I would be capable of doing to them in a civil war....
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Old 06-15-2019, 04:33 PM
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Offering the same forgiveness to myself and others that Christ has selflessly given me.
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Old 06-15-2019, 04:59 PM
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I tend to agree with Jack Swilling on the concept of self-forgiveness. I don't see it in the Bible. What I do see is the necessity of believing wholeheartedly that God has forgiven you.

In practice, I sort of think they're the same thing, but I think it's important to get the semantics right. When Christians say "forgive yourself," I think the reality they're pointing to is "believe 100% that God has truly forgiven you; if you believe that, you can move on and not be dragged down by the weight of your sins." It's a subtle, but important difference. In the first case, our hearts are turned to focus on our relationship to self (which to me is kind of a narcissistic concept, honestly, and can be spiritually destructive). In the second case, our hearts on turned to focus on our relationship with God.

I don't put any stock in forgiving myself because I am not the offended party in my sin; I'm the offender. God is the primary offended party, and some other people usually are offended parties, too. It is their forgiveness I need, and I need the faith to believe that when God says, "I forgive you," he really means it--that my sins really are removed and pinned on Jesus's cross, so that God can be both just and merciful to me, a sinner.

Not knocking anyone--like I said, I think what you're pointing to with the words "forgive yourself" is something else, something good--but I do think the semantics are significant.
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Old 06-15-2019, 06:05 PM
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The temptation to be vengeful.
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Old 06-15-2019, 11:34 PM
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Personally, I don't think it's a prerequisite to have first forgiven yourself in order to ask for and receive forgiveness for others and from God.

Rather I believe that one must first seek forgiveness from others, and forgive others, and then ask forgiveness from God before forgiving oneself.

God commands us, as does Christ, to seek and grant forgiveness, multiple times in the New Testament. If we forgive ourselves first without seeking and granting forgiveness, are we obeying God? I am not a theologian, but it seems that we must first give and receive forgiveness, thus obeying God, before we forgive ourselves.

And consequently, I have found that once we give and receive forgiveness, it is easier (if that's the right word) to forgive ourselves and move on with our lives and put the past in the past.

I'm currently experiencing this very thing. Having recently forgiven and been forgiven, and earnestly prayed for forgiveness from God, I am finding that something within me has changed and I am starting to be able to not think and feel so harshly about myself and my past actions. Have I forgiven myself? No. It doesn't seem to be a single, immediate and absolute effect. Rather, it seems that it's going to be an incremental thing for me. And that's ok. That's fantastic, actually, because I've spent many years tearing myself to shreds over past events which I had zero control over but thought I should have. Maybe one day that burden will be lifted as well.

I am also finding it becoming easier to let go of the past. I've done the really hard part, and now I'm not holding on to it so tightly. My grasp is slipping, and when I think about the past, I don't think about it for as long and it doesn't hurt me as much as it always has. That is going to be incremental as well, I suppose. And maybe one day I will be able to go not just minutes or hours without it intruding on my thoughts, but maybe I'll be able to go days, maybe even weeks, without dwelling on it.

I earnestly pray so. The good Lord knows the other party in that whole horrible event has gone years without thinking about it, but not because of any introspection or self forgiveness.
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Old 06-16-2019, 05:12 AM
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Personally, I don't think it's a prerequisite to have first forgiven yourself in order to ask for and receive forgiveness for others and from God.
I don't understand why anyone would not ask for forgiveness if they did not 1st think they should be forgiven.

If you humbly and sincerely ask others for forgiveness, how in the world could you think you should not forgive yourself?
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Old 06-16-2019, 12:18 PM
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I relate to Paul. My spirit wants to do one thing while my flesh craves another. It's the spirit of rebellion inherent in my fallen, sinful DNA. I have a quick temper while God tells me to remain temperate. I can have a foul mouth while God tells me to "watch my tongue" (paraphrased). I lust after beautiful women while God tells me that I commit sin in my heart when I do so.

Matthew 26:41, "Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak."
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Old 06-16-2019, 12:28 PM
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Some misread my comment on having trouble forgiving myself. The OP was not a theological question and neither was my response. I am talking about things long forgiven by the Master that still hound me on occasion.
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Old 06-16-2019, 01:01 PM
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My wife said at church today that she is harder on herself than anybody else. That is very true!

I often tell her, as she plunges into an anxiety abyss, that there are limits to her responsibility. She is a problem solver. Unfortunately, she has problem creators in her life. She's not a busy body but a good doer.

There comes a point where you have to let people lie in the bed they make, even though you are full of compassion with a willingness to help. You cannot help those who don't want to be helped. Amen.
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Old 06-16-2019, 03:47 PM
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Jesus said , "Blessed are they that do hunger and thirst after righteousness for they shall be filled." Matthew 5.
Before Adam sinned God was there to give him guidance, all he had to do was ask.
The allure of knowledge without God but to be as gods divided Adam from God .
To me it is more important to know what God wants me to do than what I want to do, be it mundane or dramatically serious .
When you realize that God holds us accountable for every thing we say, even the idle conversation , it becomes all the more important to understand how serious our actions mean to Him. and the more serious one considders all their words, the more they mean to God. As an example, The words of a liar have little value . Most because the liar believes that every one lies, as to justify himself . There are no liars in heaven. Satan is a liar from the beginning and the father of it , according to Jesus .
Needing the guidance of the Holy Spirit Jesus provides is essential in knowing God's will.
And there are special blessings and gifts with this discipline as well.
These are received between the individual and God and NOT an achievement .
Having Gods instruction I know who is to be helped, and how and when and where and what .
Noble deeds are not obedience. Obedience is obedience .
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Old 06-16-2019, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by sonya1 View Post
Keeping any sort of faith in a just God when things on earth are not fair, and people and animals suffer even if they don't deserve it.

Sometimes I really think God is like Chuck on Supernatural ( tv show) in the last episode of season 14. The Motorhead song at the very end sums it up extremely well "God was never on your side"

Sorry not feeling any faith this week, my best friend died, and I am once again very angry with God for taking someone too early
Maybe God took someone from this horribly corrupt earth and put him/her in a wonderful place of peace, joy, and warmth.
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Old 06-16-2019, 08:59 PM
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I relate to Paul. My spirit wants to do one thing while my flesh craves another. It's the spirit of rebellion inherent in my fallen, sinful DNA. I have a quick temper while God tells me to remain temperate. I can have a foul mouth while God tells me to "watch my tongue" (paraphrased). I lust after beautiful women while God tells me that I commit sin in my heart when I do so.

Matthew 26:41, "Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak."
Good word AJ!!
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Old 06-17-2019, 02:39 AM
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I am a human being. Therefore I inherited my sin nature from my [earthly] father back through my male ancestors all the way back to Adam. So I am a sinner and I sin.
I sin willingly, knowingly, unknowingly, and not resisting temptation.
I sin by commission and omission, by thought, word, and deed.
Every one of my sins breaks all of the Commandments.
I do not deserve to be forgiven, and I deserve eternal death/punishment in hell, by the fire that never dies and the worm that never dies.

However...

God loved me so much that He sent His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ to die and pay the full penalty for all of the sins I ever committed, commit, and ever will commit. Through Jesus Christ's blood atonement for me, I can be forgiven and justified, and through God's mercy and grace, obtain freedom from the bondage of sin and obtain salvation (eternal life and no hell)... God blots the sin out and remembers no more. There may be earthly consequences, and there may be eternal consequences with regard to rewards, but the eternal consequence of hell is gone, leaving the eternal reward of heaven. All I need do is believe, repent, and ask

An LCMS Pastor once told me that continuing to beat myself up over a sin was like telling God I didn't believe He had forgiven me. Who am I, a poor, wretched sinner, to think I should feel guilty about something my perfect Father in heaven has forgiven, blotted out, and forgotten? Am I more moral and right and holier than God that I can continue to beat myself up about the sin(s) He has forgiven, blotted out, and forgotten? No way! Since the whole penalty for all my sins has been paid, I can't even add to what has been paid because that would be robbing Christ of some of the glory He is due for taking care of it all! So, with [wholly inadequate] praise and thanksgiving and love and worship, I accept the forgiveness, grace, and salvation that Jesus bought for me at the cost of His own life, but which is free to me, and live in the freedom He bought for me.

And, of course, because I am a sinner, this is easier said (or written), or understood, than actually done
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