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Old 04-20-2012, 04:05 PM
Ellen Ellen is offline
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My husband and I are looking for help with our BOL. The right person(s) will be entitled to a very long-term lease of our acreage and assistance with the construction of a livable structure for themselves (small-large home, at your cost, but with our help).

Our land is in NE AZ. There is currently no power or water. We are getting water soon and power shortly after that. We have the means of getting things done there this year and need help with labor.

We plan on building cord wood home(s) and prefer that you do the same BUT we are not opposed to trailers or other construction. Cord wood is cheap and energy efficient.

That being said, I realize many people would NOT want to build on acreage that they are only leasing. Well, then this is not for you. We are willing to offer 50+ year lease(s) so you can live there as long as you want, but when you're gone, your family has no inheritance there, unless prior arrangements have been made, which is a possibility, but definitely no promises at this point. You can feel confident that we aren't just going to kick you off as soon as you help us build our house. We are fair people.

My husband and I are 40-something and 50-something. In good health but with typical aging aches and pains. We need laborers who can help with construction labor. We can offer room and board, but keep in mind amenities are like unto camping. There is a small travel trailer for shelter that is not fancy, but livable.

Our property is 9 miles on dirt roads. The road is at times and seasonally not passable due to roads being washed out. There is usually a way around but it is NOT city-living with conveniences on demand. The right person(s) would not expect the Ritz or even Motel 8. With the construction of homes and running water and some power, it will be the perfect living conditions for us, but definitely not everyone.

We are NOT concerned with race, religion, back ground checks, etc., etc. We are not licensed, bonded, OR insured. We are NOT a welfare system. We will provide room and board as mentioned, and SOME wages could be offered along with the permission to full use of the BOL for like-minded people who respect each others space, property, and pursuit of happiness. After our building is complete, you will need to start furnishing your own meals. You may stay in our little trailer as long as you are being productive. As far as the lease, you will be required, after the apprenticeship work is complete, to sign a lease agreement (to avoid squatters) that will include a small monthly lease amount. Small = likely something less than $200 per month. This will allow you to live and garden and thrive at a BOL.

There are no neighbors to speak of. A few people here and there but 50 acres is quite large and suitable enough for many people even if they aren't each others super best friends. We just expect respect and privacy and decency AND PRIVACY (already mentioned, but important).

When are we starting? We are waiting for funds and we have to get a well installed before transitioning out there. Those funds should be here in a month or two, but that's what we though a month or two ago! We will be a GMO-Free zone! Period. Livestock is fine (small and or large), gardening is fine, most things are fine (kids, dogs, cats, tents, basements, etc) as long as you are a good and decent person. We can assist with or share rides into town, so a vehicle is not necessary. Trips would definitely NOT be on a daily basis. After our home is built we can help build you something, or like I mentioned, we don't care if you live in a trailer of some sort indefinitely.

We are laid-back, not overly paranoid, not drunks or druggies, and cannot tolerate losers. We are not opposed to the use of herbs and alcohol, but we choose to steer clear of harmful substances. There may or may not be children around so you will be expected to be a good example and use appropriate language.

My husband speaks German and I know ASL enough to get by. He is in construction, specifically custom wood-working and welding. I am into gardening, canning, rabbits, goats, etc. I was raised in the medical profession and I am proficient at many medical-type situations. We both enjoy shooting; target practice, hunting, plinking, etc. We have been known to set up mini-shooting ranges indoors for BB guns and occasionally a .22LR.

You will need to be able to do lifting. Cord wood requires a lot of lifting of logs that will likely be 20" in length and varying diameters, but some will be hefty. We hope to frame the house first and put up the roof so we can work in milder climates rather than full sun. We will be reasonable in using tools to make work easier even if we have to get a generator.

After hours you are free to do what you want. Perhaps plan to work 5-6 days per week. If you need time off, no problem. There is lots to do out there if you are not planning on shopping. Hunting, hiking, etc. You can purchase a AZ State hunting license for varmints and get your fill of killing "something". It's really fun. Shopping is about 22 miles away, same as the hospital. There are no emergency systems set-up out there. If you have health conditions that may become an emergency keep that in mind.

We like it out there and are going to move out there full time. We need help building and we are not rich by any means. We are looking for some bartering. Someone who wants to learn a new skill and have the opportunity to live off-grid all of their days should they want to.

You can PM me. I am not online everyday and we don't have Internet at home. I don't want ANYONE to think this is a easy task and that there are great amenities and that it's all fun and games, but I think it is a good and fair opportunity for both/all parties. We would consider more than one person/couple/group, but payment will mostly be bartering. Hopefully great friendships can and will be formed and that we have people to watch our backs in exchange for the same.

We cannot live out there alone. There are a few opportunistic people who are around occasionally who break into the trailer we have out there. It is NOT a valuable trailer, but we need more people who are there when we're not. A few families or separate individuals would be best.

The county is Apache in AZ. The neighboring town is BIG on Farmer's Markets and homeschooling. AZ is quite the police state, but I don't know which state isn't. Wyoming? I don't know. We have property here and this is where we are and will be. We would like to make sure that the right people are chosen so there is never conflict that can't be easily resolved and that we can be good neighbors.

This is kind of a hodge-podge of information, but I am short on time and we really need to get looking for some people to help who want to work in exchange for self-reliance, etc. I hope to find someone on here. I am not really looking elsewhere...at the moment.

Thanks

Selection will not be taken lightly. I hope that persons considering something like this do not take it lightly either. We don't mind taking in someone who is otherwise destitute and not financially able to provide for themselves, but there is no free lunch. You would be considered just the same, but there is expectations of working for food/housing. Just make sure you CAN and WILL work.

Last edited by Ellen; 04-20-2012 at 05:20 PM..
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Old 04-20-2012, 04:46 PM
Ellen Ellen is offline
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Ok, so I said I am not overly paranoid BUT the end of the world might happen sometime. Where is the safest place to be? I just found this: World's Safest Places to Hide. Sheesh, perhaps we should charge a premium to LET someone come help us! LOL!
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Old 04-20-2012, 04:58 PM
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I would strongly suggest a background check at least. As an employer who has had many, many employees, certain people will say anything to get their foot in the door. Promises, promises with a very poor outcome. Impossible to read their minds, and the wrong person could have disastrous implications for your plans.

And I would check out the legality of squatters rights. I've read pretty bad stories about that.

Just my opinion, but best of luck to you
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Old 04-20-2012, 05:13 PM
Ellen Ellen is offline
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I would strongly suggest a background check at least. As an employer who has had many, many employees, certain people will say anything to get their foot in the door. Promises, promises with a very poor outcome. Impossible to read their minds, and the wrong person could have disastrous implications for your plans.

And I would check out the legality of squatters rights. I've read pretty bad stories about that.

Just my opinion, but best of luck to you
Thanks SO much. The lease would prevent squatters. There are other ways to deal with squatters as well. We intend to take selection very, very seriously. I believe, too, that the wrong people, will not even want to try to live out where we will be. It is risky putting this out there, but we won't select someone out of desperation. Aside from that, if someone comes and they don't work/work out, they are gone before the lease is even considered. As far as background checks, too many people are in jail/prison for non-crimes, it doesn't make them disqualified for consideration. We will give a person a fair chance if he/she otherwise shows no other reason why they can't be a functional part of our society. Thanks so much!

Last edited by Ellen; 04-22-2012 at 01:34 PM..
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Old 04-21-2012, 02:40 AM
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Be very cautious Ellen....Just wanted to add that..
This would be a great opportunity for someone...Hope it works out for you..
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Old 04-21-2012, 06:43 AM
arleigh arleigh is offline
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I'd come but I'd have to bring all my girl friends ;
A dog , 4 hens and 3 cute chicks .
Seriously , I have my own place right now.
You migh require letters of recomendation, and I am told that corperations are asking for access to twitter and face book accounts on prospective applicants.Not optional.
Evidently they can make a determination better over a persons charricter on those sites ,than a resimay.
If I wasn't in my 60's I'd apply my self, all ready had my share of heavy work most of my life . I'll talk to my son though ,He's a carpenter /cabinet maker ect..and a cook right now .
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Old 04-21-2012, 01:44 PM
bayez bayez is offline
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Word of advice.You better be carful.Your could be opening yourself up to a myriad of problems.Where's your family?...I'm just paranoid,leery of offers like yours...I wish you well,hope it works .
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Old 04-21-2012, 04:19 PM
Ellen Ellen is offline
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Word of advice.You better be carful.Your could be opening yourself up to a myriad of problems.Where's your family?...I'm just paranoid,leery of offers like yours...I wish you well,hope it works .
Yeah, we realize that it feels weird or can feel weird. No one is committed long-term to anything without getting a good feel for things. We would likely require a 6-month trial or more before deciding. We have been looking locally, but it's hard to find people who are like us. This forum is the highest concentration of "like-us" people. There are people on here that I would decline, at least there is a history of how they feel and think in the threads. It's risky no matter what. If someone wanted to come and live with NO bartering/helping build structures to check things out we are totally open to that. People need to know what it will be like living out there. They could be out there all alone right now and we could get to know them by our bi-monthly visits and they could scope things out without any pressure.

We can't go it alone....neither should anyone else.
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Old 04-21-2012, 04:43 PM
Ellen Ellen is offline
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corperations are asking for access to twitter and face book accounts on prospective applicants...[and] can make a determination better over a persons charricter on those sites
That is brilliant! Actually, that's why I like this forum. It is SO easy to go back and read what people have written. I would BE glad to share my Facebook account with someone who wants to check me out. They can talk to my friends, etc. My husband is not online so you only get to read all about me.

Talk to your son. Hopefully I described our venture well enough so that people don't come thinking they are going to be waited on hand and foot. My son MAY come help. It's a good deal really if you can get set up with an affordable place to live.

Thanks so much, and if you DO come, I would require that all of your girls come with you!
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Old 04-21-2012, 05:14 PM
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I think the right person/people will come along. Good luck!
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Old 04-21-2012, 05:36 PM
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Not sure I see what trade, practice, or skill the "apprentice" would receive.
Perhaps you are looking for an "indentured servant" instead.
Seems great in theory although it could be disappointing to someone in the end.
I suppose it depends on who's perspective you view it from and whether you are looking at it from the start or at the end of the matter.
It's for certain who writes the rules of behavior and who holds title to all property.
I'm afraid this arrangement may be indicative of a class shift in the structure of American society.
Hope this works out for all involved.
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Old 04-22-2012, 01:20 PM
Ellen Ellen is offline
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Not sure I see what trade, practice, or skill the "apprentice" would receive.
Perhaps you are looking for an "indentured servant" instead.
Seems great in theory although it could be disappointing to someone in the end.
I suppose it depends on who's perspective you view it from and whether you are looking at it from the start or at the end of the matter.
It's for certain who writes the rules of behavior and who holds title to all property.
I'm afraid this arrangement may be indicative of a class shift in the structure of American society.
Hope this works out for all involved.
Hmmm, perhaps a definition would help you out. An INDENTURED SERVANT is an unfree labourer under contract to work (for a specified amount of time) for another person, often without any pay, but in exchange for accommodation, food, other essentials and/or free passage to a new country.

An APPRENTICE is a person who works for another in order to learn a trade: an apprentice to a plumber.

AS MENTIONED, we are building cord wood structures. So, when you say, "Not sure I see what trade, practice, or skill the "apprentice" would receive" this is what skill the apprentice should receive. I don't know how I didn't make myself clear.

We have people out there already. Anyone who comes as an apprentice will be able to see how they fit in while they learn a skill, are provided room and board (although be it humble), earn some wages (NOT typical of apprenticeships where some people PAY to learn a skill instead of have someone cover all of their costs), then, in the end, if they feel as though they want to stay or just set up for their BOL, they are more than welcome to do so. We, in turn, would help them build their structure of choice.

What in that is "indentured"? I don't get it. We are looking for people who want to labor and are able to labor (lift logs and lay mortar, framing would be a great plus as would roofing or other carpentry skills). Maybe I should have included the definitions in my original post but I didn't imagine that anyone would take the offer as being an indentured servant, which, by nature, is NOT a voluntary position.

As mentioned, we have people out there already. The first person out there was an otherwise homeless Vet. He barters for his "rent" (we are very lax on rent/lease, but legal issues require us to charge to avoid squatters rights). he digs up and burns cactus and takes cares of varmints. The other couple keep bees, not on this particular 50 acres but on our 90 acres down the road. They pay "rent" but at the moment are mostly bartering with tilling a huge garden area and give us some honey now and then. I don't think they feel indentured to us at all. We would NOT want ANYONE to feel indentured as it creates extremely poor social relationships, or I would think it would anyway.

We are moving out there after we put in the well. We are building comfortable homes and offering the same to others. YES, they WILL have to help us build ours, that's the deal. They will learn a skill: building cord wood homes. They can learn the mistakes on ours before starting theirs.

Mexico offers 100-year leases to Americans all the time. 100-year leases are redundant, imo. If someone wants to come and live and they are 50-years-old we will be glad to offer a 50-year lease. No one is going to get booted off their home when they are 92-years-old. PERIOD! But, when the occupant(s) die, heirs do not have the right to come in and take over either. That is NOT a secret from the day a person decides to build. I have figured if they come and enjoy helping us and are easy enough to get along with than they would qualify to stay. No need to worry that at the end of the job that your work is done and we don't need you anymore so audios! Not so, we NEED more people there! A few families at least! The more skills the better. The more trigger fingers the better.

A 1300 sf cord wood home should cost about $15k. Over the period of 25-50 years, that is fairly inexpensive housing; no mortgage, off-grid utilities, water included. To me indentured is having a mortgage!

Say what you will. We are looking for the "right" people. This is NOT for everyone. We are NOT looking for slaves. We are looking to build a small community of people who have skills. If you have no skills please come anyway and we will teach you! If you have no food, no job, no money, come and we will make you productive. We will NOT give you welfare; you WILL earn your keep. That makes you NO different than us!

It's an outstanding opportunity for us to have people come. We will treat you as a great resource and benefit to our BOL. We are respectful and tolerant and honest and hardworking and PREPARED. We can help others who want to help us and themselves. To say that we are looking for indentured servants is hideously false and nothing I said in my post indicates that we are looking for that (like the part about earning some wages...etc).

I read time and time again on this forum that people are concerned that they don't have BOL. This is as DIRT CHEAP as anyone can find. I don't care if people come set up and leave and keep their place vacant until they need to come. Someone will be there that they can trust to watch their stuff. The price will be right, guaranteed! We WANT the right people here. Where is a better place to find them than on here??

The accusation of us looking for slaves is funny that someone on THIS board, where one of the hottest topics is having, getting, getting-to BOL, would accuse someone else who offers an opportunity, is crazy!! I realize NO ONE should trust us. I expect that people WILL do their own research. Come on, get a grip! Read my posts. I have been on here for a while, not a long while, but a while. We don't WANT ANYONE on our land who feels that there are any ulterior motives. People who live there right now come and go as they please. They are self-sufficient and keep to themselves. They do what they can to help others which in turn helps themselves. LOL, crazy what some people can imagine!!

Last edited by Ellen; 04-22-2012 at 01:58 PM..
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Old 04-23-2012, 07:12 AM
Allin Allin is offline
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hi is your property near snowflake if so I might have a mutually beneficial proposal
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Old 04-23-2012, 03:29 PM
Ellen Ellen is offline
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hi is your property near snowflake if so I might have a mutually beneficial proposal
Not far from Snowflake. It is closer to Concho. I take the the Highway 60 eastward, but I THINK you can get there from Snowflake but I have never tried.

We are NOT looking for slaves....LOL!! So don't beg me to make you one! Thanks!!
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Old 04-23-2012, 03:53 PM
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Interesting offer. i would take it after a little inspection and meet n greet. But have kids that have special medical requirements and that means insurance, which means a job. Good luck to you, I have always wanted to do just what you're doing. I love a good adventure.
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Old 04-26-2012, 05:23 PM
El Gringo Perdido El Gringo Perdido is offline
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This is just a suggestion and might help. What you have described sounds somewhat like an intentional community or maybe even sort of a commune. There are directories for intentional communities where you can post what you are doing, what type people you want and even what moral values are required to be part of it.

You might try it and see what kind of response you get. I have some property in the mountains around Cloudcroft NM that I have thought of doing something simular but have not really tried.
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Old 04-26-2012, 11:39 PM
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This is just a suggestion and might help. What you have described sounds somewhat like an intentional community or maybe even sort of a commune. There are directories for intentional communities where you can post what you are doing, what type people you want and even what moral values are required to be part of it.

You might try it and see what kind of response you get. I have some property in the mountains around Cloudcroft NM that I have thought of doing something simular but have not really tried.
Where would I find such a directory?

We have been thinking about this for a long time and just barely decided to try. I hope it works out. It could be mutually beneficial at a price that would be hard to beat.

Thanks!
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Old 04-27-2012, 06:21 AM
El Gringo Perdido El Gringo Perdido is offline
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If this link does not work, do a search for intentional communities directory.

http://directory.ic.org/
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Old 04-27-2012, 06:25 PM
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Ellen, pm sent
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Old 04-29-2012, 10:55 AM
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No way.

You are right about a lease trumping squatters' rights ("adverse possession" can't be adverse when it's permissive) but what's the difference between a 50 year lease and having squatters? I mean, in your lifetime?

Once you sign that 50 year lease you've given up real property rights to the lessee. You've given real property rights to a stranger. The lessee now occupies and controls the leased portion. Whatever you do, don't lease an undivided interest.

My wife's family has a 4,000 acre ranch - a real ranch for generations - and they hire ranch hands. There is something in the law which allows them to pay less than minimum wage while providing room (the nice bunkhouse) and board (great food from a big kitchen) and other amenities. They do pay workman's comp to avoid injury liability, and pay FICA which is paid only on the cash payments.

With background checks, they hire people who are otherwise loners and broke, and who love to have a place and security. If they don't do a good job, they are terminated. They are treated very well.

But give them a 50 year lease on property in exchange for labor? No way.
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