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Old 08-25-2019, 11:13 AM
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Some of the blame can be put squarely on the Union's backs

Consumers have the rest of the blame


We haven't been purchasing American made items, businesses have defected to cheaper labor markets in order to just stay in business

Remember, when we point to assign blame, we have 3 fingers pointing right back
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Old 08-25-2019, 11:34 AM
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OP, prob too little, too late. We don't make things that we import like cameras, TV, electronics, etc. USA was great before there was China. Just like we lost CA to cheap Mex labor, we lost the USA to cheap imports.
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Old 08-25-2019, 11:34 AM
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If by "globalism" you mean: the world got a smaller place, distribution to far away places is a lot cheaper and companies have set up their production centers in the locations that gives them the biggest profit margin which happens to be countries where the people working have nothing to say or any rights whatsoever. Then yes, i agree.

The only way to get those "US jobs" back, is to compete with countries like china on howmuch you pay your workers, and howmany rights your workers have (as close to 0 as possible for them please, that maximizes profit). But sure, blame the unions for setting some standards for US workers. We all know it would be better if the employer could go back to the company town, where you can work, live and buy from the company you work for, and maybe paying you in their own currency so you can't buy anyplace else. The company will provide for you ... right? </sarcasm>

I mean, do you really want Chinese sweatshop conditions for the people making your stuff, in the US? Cause unless China and Vietnam etc. suddenly advance in human rights a lot, they'll always be cheaper. It really helps that if there's an accident, you can just take a new worker, and get rid of the old one. They don't even need to look into it or change the machine or train people if that happens. Don't even need a first aid kit on site, imagine the savings . Basically what you're asking for, are these conditions, for US employees. That's all that's gonna "get production back to the US".
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Old 08-25-2019, 11:52 AM
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One-world government has long been a dream of the liberal cult, and it clearly is their goal. Just imagine what we would have if there was a one-world government where every adult could vote. How long would it be before we had a full-fledged communist dictatorship? And when the wealth is redistributed, where will it flow out of?

And where will it flow into? Some will go to the third world, where it will soon vaporize through mass stupidity, but most of it will go into the pockets of the ruling class, where it can support the machinery used to control us.

We are seeing this machinery being built around us even now. Loss of American jobs and wealth is a natural part of the process. But what we see now is only a tiny taste of what's coming.

It is not the unions that caused this (though some might have added to it); unions have been declining in membership and power for decades, but there has been no corresponding increase in American made goods. I can remember a time when any foreign made tool found on a union construction job would be welded to a steel column, to be ruined and displayed. And you wouldn't see a foreign made car on a union parking lot. Things like environmental restrictions and workplace safety and political correctness and social justice, all imposed on the business world, all cost a lot of money. It isn't just the wages. We impose things on our industry that makes it unable to compete.

Some of this probably should be imposed. But we need some kind of tariff to make up for what it costs our industry to comply with these things. Otherwise we are just sticking a knife in the back of American industry.

I think a lot of CEOs and boards of directors have no loyalty to America, and are only loyal to their bottom line. These make the job of the one-world government team easy.
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Old 08-25-2019, 12:03 PM
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yea the exporting of US jobs started back in the 70's.....
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Old 08-25-2019, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ManyFeathers View Post
Some of the blame can be put squarely on the Union's backs

Consumers have the rest of the blame


We haven't been purchasing American made items, businesses have defected to cheaper labor markets in order to just stay in business

Remember, when we point to assign blame, we have 3 fingers pointing right back
Ain't the truth. Even our Army Surplus supplies cheap China goods. It is all pervasive.
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Old 08-25-2019, 12:45 PM
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yea the exporting of US jobs started back in the 70's.....
That's what I was recalling in my post above, about how every little town had factories and jobs. The US has been hollowed out, a husk of it's former self. All that is left is massive unpayable debt and a heavy surveillance state. The Free Trade Deal was a killer. I watched factory after factory close. After the Free Trade Deal, I was working night shift in a Good Year plant as a tradesman. And the foreman came in on nightshift and told us to start stripping out production lines and palletize them in the yard. He would not say why. When the truckers came on night shift, we asked him where they where going and he said Mexico.
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Old 08-25-2019, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by IC_Rafe View Post
If by "globalism" you mean: the world got a smaller place, distribution to far away places is a lot cheaper and companies have set up their production centers in the locations that gives them the biggest profit margin which happens to be countries where the people working have nothing to say or any rights whatsoever. Then yes, i agree.

The only way to get those "US jobs" back, is to compete with countries like china on howmuch you pay your workers, and howmany rights your workers have (as close to 0 as possible for them please, that maximizes profit). But sure, blame the unions for setting some standards for US workers. We all know it would be better if the employer could go back to the company town, where you can work, live and buy from the company you work for, and maybe paying you in their own currency so you can't buy anyplace else. The company will provide for you ... right? </sarcasm>

I mean, do you really want Chinese sweatshop conditions for the people making your stuff, in the US? Cause unless China and Vietnam etc. suddenly advance in human rights a lot, they'll always be cheaper. It really helps that if there's an accident, you can just take a new worker, and get rid of the old one. They don't even need to look into it or change the machine or train people if that happens. Don't even need a first aid kit on site, imagine the savings . Basically what you're asking for, are these conditions, for US employees. That's all that's gonna "get production back to the US".
I don't know what the answer is, it will probably be AI robots, but the US can't go on exporting jobs. Bring back the Yankee Trader and outsmart and outwork everybody else. And if everything goes robotic, we are still screwed.
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Old 08-25-2019, 01:17 PM
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The blame goes to the consumers. We wonít pay more for stuff built by our neighbors. That incentivized manufactures to find the cheapest labor. It didnít start in the 1980s. It started in the US before the 1780s. Northeastern companies went west and south for cheaper labor, then overseas. Itís inevitable that the lowest bidder wins the job.
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Old 08-25-2019, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by LibShooter View Post
The blame goes to the consumers. We wonít pay more for stuff built by our neighbors. That incentivized manufactures to find the cheapest labor. It didnít start in the 1980s. It started in the US before the 1780s. Northeastern companies went west and south for cheaper labor, then overseas. Itís inevitable that the lowest bidder wins the job.
Confronting Decline by David Koistinen documents the drift of manufacturing in America away from New England towards both raw material and cheaper labor up until the in 1920ís. Trying to disrupt even internal manufacturing drift is all a bit Canute like.

https://www.amazon.com/Confronting-D.../dp/0813054087
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Old 08-25-2019, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Steverino View Post
yea the exporting of US jobs started back in the 70's.....


When I started in manufacturing (70ís) work was being sent to the southern states from the midwest(rustbelt) and northeast.

From there it was a quick jump to Mexico then overseas.

all was an attempt by Corporations to chase profits because of high taxes and inflation thanks to .Gov spending.

Once LBJ threw open the socialist spending floodgates our fate was sealed.


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Old 08-25-2019, 02:27 PM
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It is not the global economy that is the problem. The problem is a failure to hold trading partners accountable for fair and honest trade.

It has been a false assumption that free trade alone would bring foreign countries to fair and honest trade. Even the most honest people will rationalize cheating therefore every trading partner must be held accountable.

President Trump is trying to do that but after some 30 year of free trade without accountability for fair and honest trade it is going to be difficult.

Our biggest problem is this country is once a group hates a politician they cannot give him credit for the good he does. Mostly these haters are simple minded ignorant people both liberal and libertarian.
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Old 08-25-2019, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by petergunn View Post
When I started in manufacturing (70ís) work was being sent to the southern states from the midwest(rustbelt) and northeast.

From there it was a quick jump to Mexico then overseas.

all was an attempt by Corporations to chase profits because of high taxes and inflation thanks to .Gov spending.

Once LBJ threw open the socialist spending floodgates our fate was sealed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Many ideas of how it started and by whom. So what is the solution.
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Old 08-25-2019, 02:49 PM
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Businessmen will sell out anything or anybody. Their status is up there with lawyers .
Money is at the root of all evil. Money leads to power. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. I'm all for the free market (small c capitalism). I despise the Fortune 500 (large C Capitalism). They steer policy to their benefit and to the detriment of the blue collar, little man.
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Old 08-25-2019, 03:07 PM
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If by "globalism" you mean: the world got a smaller place, distribution to far away places is a lot cheaper and companies have set up their production centers in the locations that gives them the biggest profit margin which happens to be countries where the people working have nothing to say or any rights whatsoever. Then yes, i agree.

The only way to get those "US jobs" back, is to compete with countries like china on howmuch you pay your workers, and howmany rights your workers have (as close to 0 as possible for them please, that maximizes profit). But sure, blame the unions for setting some standards for US workers. We all know it would be better if the employer could go back to the company town, where you can work, live and buy from the company you work for, and maybe paying you in their own currency so you can't buy anyplace else. The company will provide for you ... right? </sarcasm>

I mean, do you really want Chinese sweatshop conditions for the people making your stuff, in the US? Cause unless China and Vietnam etc. suddenly advance in human rights a lot, they'll always be cheaper. It really helps that if there's an accident, you can just take a new worker, and get rid of the old one. They don't even need to look into it or change the machine or train people if that happens. Don't even need a first aid kit on site, imagine the savings [IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.survivalistboards.com/images/smilies/wink.gif[/IMG]. Basically what you're asking for, are these conditions, for US employees. That's all that's gonna "get production back to the US".
What they fail to realize is if you want to get more things made in America down to the product of one’s shoes then you would have to import more cheap labor in order to compete worldwide. Same things with clothes. Then they would bitch about that. They don’t understand that globalism is essentially capitalism meant to makes supply chains efficient.

The tragedy really is the failure of some Americans to adapt to the changes which is why we have to import more doctors, scientists, etc; instead of trying to regain lost manufacturing jobs that are likely not to come back anyways our workforce should be trying to enhance their value in more specialized areas so we would have to import them.

In some areas I do agree though which in large part have more to do with national security such and aluminum and steel production. Even that ends up suffer from government intervention.
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Old 08-25-2019, 03:08 PM
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Interesting noting how all the anti-socialists and anti-communists on this site complain about capitalism. Capitalism is about profits and nothing else. If corporation A makes widgets in city B for price $C, and they can make the widget anywhere else for $C-(any amount), then capitalism mandates that corporation A will move.
It was Reagan who said that the US economy needed to be unleashed from government regulation, and when the leash was taken off, the economy moved to where the workers would work all day for a head of cabbage and a carrot.
If you don't agree with how capitalism works, then you are advocating a socialist policy, whether you'll admit it or not.
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Old 08-25-2019, 04:08 PM
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Interesting noting how all the anti-socialists and anti-communists on this site complain about capitalism. Capitalism is about profits and nothing else. If corporation A makes widgets in city B for price $C, and they can make the widget anywhere else for $C-(any amount), then capitalism mandates that corporation A will move.
It was Reagan who said that the US economy needed to be unleashed from government regulation, and when the leash was taken off, the economy moved to where the workers would work all day for a head of cabbage and a carrot.
If you don't agree with how capitalism works, then you are advocating a socialist policy, whether you'll admit it or not.
Just like conservatism. It only applies when convenient.
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Old 08-25-2019, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_Rafe View Post
If by "globalism" you mean: the world got a smaller place, distribution to far away places is a lot cheaper and companies have set up their production centers in the locations that gives them the biggest profit margin which happens to be countries where the people working have nothing to say or any rights whatsoever. Then yes, i agree.

The only way to get those "US jobs" back, is to compete with countries like china on howmuch you pay your workers, and howmany rights your workers have (as close to 0 as possible for them please, that maximizes profit). But sure, blame the unions for setting some standards for US workers. We all know it would be better if the employer could go back to the company town, where you can work, live and buy from the company you work for, and maybe paying you in their own currency so you can't buy anyplace else. The company will provide for you ... right? </sarcasm>

I mean, do you really want Chinese sweatshop conditions for the people making your stuff, in the US? Cause unless China and Vietnam etc. suddenly advance in human rights a lot, they'll always be cheaper. It really helps that if there's an accident, you can just take a new worker, and get rid of the old one. They don't even need to look into it or change the machine or train people if that happens. Don't even need a first aid kit on site, imagine the savings . Basically what you're asking for, are these conditions, for US employees. That's all that's gonna "get production back to the US".
Yes! Great post and a reasonable voice.
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Old 08-25-2019, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by randolphrowzeebragg View Post
Interesting noting how all the anti-socialists and anti-communists on this site complain about capitalism. Capitalism is about profits and nothing else. If corporation A makes widgets in city B for price $C, and they can make the widget anywhere else for $C-(any amount), then capitalism mandates that corporation A will move.
It was Reagan who said that the US economy needed to be unleashed from government regulation, and when the leash was taken off, the economy moved to where the workers would work all day for a head of cabbage and a carrot.
If you don't agree with how capitalism works, then you are advocating a socialist policy, whether you'll admit it or not.
Interesting how all the pro-conservatives pro-capitalist cheer and appluad when the President now demands countries come back to America when they are in China to make profit.

You can't have it both ways. Yet the faux cons around here try.
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Old 08-25-2019, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randolphrowzeebragg View Post
Interesting noting how all the anti-socialists and anti-communists on this site complain about capitalism. Capitalism is about profits and nothing else. If corporation A makes widgets in city B for price $C, and they can make the widget anywhere else for $C-(any amount), then capitalism mandates that corporation A will move.
It was Reagan who said that the US economy needed to be unleashed from government regulation, and when the leash was taken off, the economy moved to where the workers would work all day for a head of cabbage and a carrot.
If you don't agree with how capitalism works, then you are advocating a socialist policy, whether you'll admit it or not.
Interesting how all the pro-conservatives pro-capitalist cheer and appluad when the President now demands countries come back to America when they are in China to make profit.

You can't have it both ways. Yet the faux cons around here try.
But but we don’t want socialism riiight lol. If that was Obama, they would blown a gasket.
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