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Old 08-01-2019, 10:44 AM
recklessdriver recklessdriver is offline
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Originally Posted by ClovisMan View Post
I feel the same way about having to pay and test for a concealed handgun license. Seems like a tax to me. "Shall not be infringed".
Well ham people tend to be a smug group looking to out people for violating the rules....... and they hated bofangs because it was cheap and not the fancy whatever they had.

I am just not a fan of bofangs because they dont hold up.
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Old 08-01-2019, 04:25 PM
Outpost75 Outpost75 is offline
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Originally Posted by zebra007 View Post
Any knowledge of a thread or website for learning the very basics and startup, that are not too technical?
FREE Technician license class here:

http://w4ava.org/techclass.htm
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Old 08-01-2019, 06:08 PM
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Any knowledge of a thread or website for learning the very basics and startup, that are not too technical?
Its going to be technical since some of the questions and answers are technical in nature...and some even require a calculator.

Personally im willing to help people who are "interested" study and pass their exams. Basically show them the ropes, all the gear etc...because its better if you are learning from someone whos experienced instead of just reading a book and taking an exam.
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Old 08-01-2019, 06:50 PM
zebra007 zebra007 is offline
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I'm looking for more info about the terms used. Just in this thread I've seen (2M, 70cm bands, simplex channel, 5 watts,75 watts, FRS radios, mobile 2m and 440 radios) I assuming they're referring to antennas and transmit strength. But what are the advantages/disadvantages from one to another.

Unless anyone knows of somewhere better, I'm readng here
https://theprepared.com/survival-ski...adio-preppers/
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Old 08-01-2019, 07:00 PM
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Since they use 2 different antennas, the triband radios might have a problem if they have to go to a fixed antenna.
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Old 08-01-2019, 07:12 PM
Hunter Don Hunter Don is online now
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Default What is this about...is gov banning handheld ham radio?

Edit: Not the case I was thinking of
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Old 08-01-2019, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by recklessdriver View Post
Its because ham guys freak and blow a gasket that you can get into it for cheap.
You could not be more wrong on that one.


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Originally Posted by recklessdriver View Post
Personally the ham testing is stupid and I refuse to pay a tax to the government or some club to use the country's air waves.
There is no license fee. There is a small administrative fee that may be collected by the group, not all do, administering the test to cover their cost, such as making copies of the documents.



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Originally Posted by recklessdriver View Post
Well ham people tend to be a smug group looking to out people for violating the rules.......

IF, people would follow the rules there would be no issue. But no, the me me me, instant gratification, the rules don't apply to me crowd come in a create havoc. Don't like the rules work within the system to get them changed to something you can agree with.


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Originally Posted by recklessdriver View Post
and they hated bofangs because it was cheap and not the fancy whatever they had.
Again, You could not be more wrong on that one. You did swerve into the truth with your statement quoted below.


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Originally Posted by recklessdriver View Post
I am just not a fan of bofangs because they dont hold up.
They don't hold up.

They don't meet spectral purity requirements, causing interference on frequencies far removed from the intended frequency of operation.

They are user programmable to frequencies the user is not licensed or given permission to use by the holder of a license. Public safety spectrum users were actually the ones who primarily lobbied the FCC to take this action to keep unauthorized users off their systems.

For just a few examples.
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Old 08-01-2019, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by zebra007 View Post
I'm looking for more info about the terms used. Just in this thread I've seen (2M, 70cm bands, simplex channel, 5 watts,75 watts, FRS radios, mobile 2m and 440 radios) I assuming they're referring to antennas and transmit strength. But what are the advantages/disadvantages from one to another.

Unless anyone knows of somewhere better, I'm readng here
https://theprepared.com/survival-ski...adio-preppers/
No insult intended against zebra007 and this post is intended for OP but, zebra's post is the perfect example of why the OP's desire to buy a radio, bury it, and then expect to "figure it out" in an emergecy is a joke. If you're serious about being prepared, you'll put in the hours of work needed to train. If not, take Yoga classes so you'll be limber enough to kiss your butt goodbye.

Buy a few radios, contact a local repeater group and ask question, get licensed, play with the radios, get your family members trained. And if you're not training with your guns, learning ground navigation, staying physically fit, growing a garden, you're just fooling yourself about being prepared.

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Old 08-01-2019, 10:36 PM
zebra007 zebra007 is offline
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No insult taken at all. The web page I linked to cleared a lot of things up for me on the terms and explained things very clearly.
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Old 08-02-2019, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zebra007 View Post
I'm looking for more info about the terms used. Just in this thread I've seen (2M, 70cm bands, simplex channel, 5 watts,75 watts, FRS radios, mobile 2m and 440 radios) I assuming they're referring to antennas and transmit strength. But what are the advantages/disadvantages from one to another.

Unless anyone knows of somewhere better, I'm readng here
https://theprepared.com/survival-ski...adio-preppers/
There a lot of youtube videos that show how to program these type of radios and how to use them as well as several websites. I've learned quite a bit just watching youtube videos and visiting a few websites...
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Old 08-02-2019, 09:42 AM
FirstToken FirstToken is offline
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I am not a lawyer, I have never played one on TV, and I did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, so the following is my laymens understanding of the situation and should not be considered legal advice:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalashnikov47 View Post
Its not just the Baofeng brand either, its any brand that is not approved for use by the FCC, they are essentially being considered as contraband as of Sept 30th, like firearms that have become extinct due to bans so will these, you'll have what you have. Even private sellers wishing to sell them cannot advertise them for sale after Sept 30th. If you have them they aren't illegal to own, you simply will not be able to buy them in their current configuration or legally sell them after Sept 30th.
Private sales of used equipment would not be illegal, the regulations are, I think, specific to importation and commercial sales. Advertising such used equipment for operation on anything but ham frequencies might be a problem.

To the best of my knowledge there has never been a problem with hams advertising private sales of any equipment, regardless of capability or lack of certification. For example, ex-military gear, including jammers and such, have never been an issue, and it obviously carries no certification. Such gear is often sold on the surplus market to hams who modify it or use it for parts for ham operation. By extension, I have never heard of a problem with any private party used gear sales, even by none-hams, except when the sales are specifically promoting illegal operations.

For that matter, retail sales (for example at Universal Radio, HRO, local radio shops, etc) of used gear that is not type accepted has never been a problem that I have heard of. For example, no Heathkit home built gear was ever certificated at any level that I am aware of, and it still shows up as used gear in stores.

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Originally Posted by Kalashnikov47 View Post
Its also my understanding that since these are not approved by the FCC that getting a license doesn't make them magically "approved" by the FCC and these would still be illegal to use in certain capacities.
Yes and no.

Getting a ham license does not make the radios magically approved, however no type certification (either Part 15 or Part 97) is required for operation (as opposed to importation and commercial sale, which would require at least Part 15) on ham frequencies. So owning one of these radios and having a ham license, and using these radios on ham frequencies, means you are 100% legal in Part 97 (ham radio) service, assuming the radio meets the technical requirements of the service. This ability to operate radios that are not type accepted is unique to ham radio, no other service (CB, FRS, MURS, GMRS, Part 90, etc) allows it, and it is the reason ham radio operators are authorized to build their own equipment if they want. The radio operator is responsible for the radios performance, not necessarily the radio maker. It is also one of the driving reasons behind the testing and licensing requirements, hams can (may) build their own equipment, so they are required to have a different understanding from other services.

There is generally nothing that will ever make these radios, as they currently exist, legal for use on anything other than ham frequencies. The exception, of course, is use on Part 90 freqs for the models that are both Part 90 certificated and also actually Part 90 compliant. But many of the models that are Part 90 certificated are not actually Part 90 compliant.

With few exceptions there are no restrictions on simple ownership of radios with various capabilities, regardless of license status. Generally, it is only the actual transmission that is regulated, not reception or equipment possession. As a ham operator there are no restrictions on owning ham radios that can operate on other than ham frequencies, if you actually program the transmit frequencies for other services that becomes a bit more gray. There is a Part 90 regulation that specifically states programming a transmit frequency that you are not licensed for is a violation, it does not say having the ability is a problem, only actually programming the transmit frequency.

Just my take on it all.

T!
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Old 08-02-2019, 09:50 AM
Hunter Don Hunter Don is online now
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Originally Posted by FortunateSon View Post
No insult intended against zebra007 and this post is intended for OP but, zebra's post is the perfect example of why the OP's desire to buy a radio, bury it, and then expect to "figure it out" in an emergecy is a joke. If you're serious about being prepared, you'll put in the hours of work needed to train. If not, take Yoga classes so you'll be limber enough to kiss your butt goodbye.

Buy a few radios, contact a local repeater group and ask question, get licensed, play with the radios, get your family members trained. And if you're not training with your guns, learning ground navigation, staying physically fit, growing a garden, you're just fooling yourself about being prepared.

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A baofeng isn’t that hard to ‘figure out’
If I buy one, and you buy the same model 3 months later, they are both going to have the same channels already programmed as default. If you put them both on channel 3 and are in range of each other and push the button, you will be able to communicate. 8 year olds do that all the time. I don’t think a lot of folks intend on communications outside their small local group
I personally don’t see repeaters lasting too awful long after an ‘event’ so being able to program to a repeater isn’t really a necessary skill. Although, for ppl that know how to use the equipment in the beginning can get a good head start at comms by using repeaters to coordinate from afar.
Taking a Saturday class and getting a license isn’t tough, but should not stop there. You do have to learn some things after to make comms better.


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Old 08-02-2019, 09:52 AM
Hunter Don Hunter Don is online now
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For me, I have maybe a dozen fengs, I will use them whenever I desire, in any way I see fit.



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Old 08-02-2019, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by FirstToken View Post
I am not a lawyer, I have never played one on TV, and I did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, so the following is my laymens understanding of the situation and should not be considered legal advice:



Private sales of used equipment would not be illegal, the regulations are, I think, specific to importation and commercial sales. Advertising such used equipment for operation on anything but ham frequencies might be a problem.

To the best of my knowledge there has never been a problem with hams advertising private sales of any equipment, regardless of capability or lack of certification. For example, ex-military gear, including jammers and such, have never been an issue, and it obviously carries no certification. Such gear is often sold on the surplus market to hams who modify it or use it for parts for ham operation. By extension, I have never heard of a problem with any private party used gear sales, even by none-hams, except when the sales are specifically promoting illegal operations.

For that matter, retail sales (for example at Universal Radio, HRO, local radio shops, etc) of used gear that is not type accepted has never been a problem that I have heard of. For example, no Heathkit home built gear was ever certificated at any level that I am aware of, and it still shows up as used gear in stores.



Yes and no.

Getting a ham license does not make the radios magically approved, however no type certification (either Part 15 or Part 97) is required for operation (as opposed to importation and commercial sale, which would require at least Part 15) on ham frequencies. So owning one of these radios and having a ham license, and using these radios on ham frequencies, means you are 100% legal in Part 97 (ham radio) service, assuming the radio meets the technical requirements of the service. This ability to operate radios that are not type accepted is unique to ham radio, no other service (CB, FRS, MURS, GMRS, Part 90, etc) allows it, and it is the reason ham radio operators are authorized to build their own equipment if they want. The radio operator is responsible for the radios performance, not necessarily the radio maker. It is also one of the driving reasons behind the testing and licensing requirements, hams can (may) build their own equipment, so they are required to have a different understanding from other services.

There is generally nothing that will ever make these radios, as they currently exist, legal for use on anything other than ham frequencies. The exception, of course, is use on Part 90 freqs for the models that are both Part 90 certificated and also actually Part 90 compliant. But many of the models that are Part 90 certificated are not actually Part 90 compliant.

With few exceptions there are no restrictions on simple ownership of radios with various capabilities, regardless of license status. Generally, it is only the actual transmission that is regulated, not reception or equipment possession. As a ham operator there are no restrictions on owning ham radios that can operate on other than ham frequencies, if you actually program the transmit frequencies for other services that becomes a bit more gray. There is a Part 90 regulation that specifically states programming a transmit frequency that you are not licensed for is a violation, it does not say having the ability is a problem, only actually programming the transmit frequency.

Just my take on it all.

T!
§ 95.591 Sales of FRS combination radios prohibited.
Effective September 30, 2019, no person shall sell or offer for sale hand-held portable radio equipment capable of operating under this subpart (FRS) and under any other licensed or licensed-by-rule radio services in this chapter (devices may be authorized under this subpart with part 15 unlicensed equipment authorizations).

These type of radios can be "gifted" but not advertised for sale according the article below, they are grandfathered to those that currently own them so like I stated in the previous post they are legal to own if you already have them...

https://survivalblog.com/baofeng-sal...own-continues/

I wouldn't publicly advertise these for sale after Sept 30th you might just find yourself in hot water and paying a large fine. I would only sell them in a face to face cash transaction if I wanted to sell them...
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Old 08-02-2019, 12:42 PM
FirstToken FirstToken is offline
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§ 95.591 Sales of FRS combination radios prohibited.
Effective September 30, 2019, no person shall sell or offer for sale hand-held portable radio equipment capable of operating under this subpart (FRS) and under any other licensed or licensed-by-rule radio services in this chapter (devices may be authorized under this subpart with part 15 unlicensed equipment authorizations).
<<<snip>>>
I wouldn't advertise these for sale to someone I didn't know after Sept 30th you might just find yourself in hot water and paying a large fine. I would only sell them in a face to face cash transaction if I wanted to sell them...
Yes, I am aware of 95.591. The only semi-official response I am aware of addressing this directly indicates that this only applies to radios certificated under Part 95. That probably has something to do with the wording “and under any other licensed or licensed-by-rule radio services in this chapter” although the use of the term “capable” instead of “authorized” clouds things. But, “this chapter” would apply to Part 95 service.

That would mean that if the radio was never Part 95 certified it does not matter (with regard to this reg) what frequencies it covers, but if it was Part 95 certificated then it must be so limited.

If it is not specific to Part 95 certified radios this restriction will go a lot further than a few Chinese imports, there are MANY hand helds in various services capable of hitting the 462 / 467 MHz range. Remember, most UHF Part 90 transceivers (public service, fire, police, etc), none of which would be legal for Part 95 service, cover 450 to 470 MHz, including FRS freqs if the tech wishes to, illegally, program them for such. There is also the matter that some Part 80 UHF radios are “capable” of operation in the 462 / 467 MHz range.

If your interpretation of 95.591 is correct then that will kill the advertised sale of used former police/fire radios (Part 90) and mil surp gear to anyone other than the first owner.

As a general rule, the FCC with such wording in the past has applied it to commercial sales of new equipment only and not to private sale of used equipment.

But if you took everything literally I can see how you might run with they are illegal to sell under any conditions. By that reasoning, however, the radios are probably also illegal to own or use, even on ham freqs. That is because the original Enforcement Advisory that started all of this uses the wording “Anyone importing, advertising or selling such noncompliant devices should stop immediately, and anyone owning such devices should not use them.” The FCC later responded that they intended this to ONLY apply to use on FRS and Part 95 service.

I just don’t see it, but concede it is a possible interpretation.

T!
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Old 08-02-2019, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Hunter Don View Post
A baofeng isn’t that hard to ‘figure out’
If I buy one, and you buy the same model 3 months later, they are both going to have the same channels already programmed as default. If you put them both on channel 3 and are in range of each other and push the button, you will be able to communicate. 8 year olds do that all the time. I don’t think a lot of folks intend on communications outside their small local group
I personally don’t see repeaters lasting too awful long after an ‘event’ so being able to program to a repeater isn’t really a necessary skill. Although, for ppl that know how to use the equipment in the beginning can get a good head start at comms by using repeaters to coordinate from afar.
Taking a Saturday class and getting a license isn’t tough, but should not stop there. You do have to learn some things after to make comms better.


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My conversation had nothing to do with the simplicity of a Baofeng radio. But looking at your post I can see you're not a ham. The Baofeng radio is not a channelized radio. It has memories if that's what you're talking about.
Having a Baofeng, I can speak from experience. They are the worst radio sold in amateur radio. They are not user friendly, have horrific audio, and have no protection from transmissions out of band. Their only redeeming virtue is the battery.
If you're not a ham, you will more than likely transmit on a frequency not in the amateur bands. In either case, in band or out, it will be a violation of FCC rules. The fines start at $10000. And if you **** off the right municipality by interfering with an agencies communication you can get a misdemeanor charge too.
At any rate my original post is still true, Failing to properly train will result in failure of operation.

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Old 08-02-2019, 06:59 PM
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Default What is this about...is gov banning handheld ham radio?

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Originally Posted by FortunateSon View Post
My conversation had nothing to do with the simplicity of a Baofeng radio. But looking at your post I can see you're not a ham. The Baofeng radio is not a channelized radio. It has memories if that's what you're talking about.
Having a Baofeng, I can speak from experience. They are the worst radio sold in amateur radio. They are not user friendly, have horrific audio, and have no protection from transmissions out of band. Their only redeeming virtue is the battery.
If you're not a ham, you will more than likely transmit on a frequency not in the amateur bands. In either case, in band or out, it will be a violation of FCC rules. The fines start at $10000. And if you **** off the right municipality by interfering with an agencies communication you can get a misdemeanor charge too.
At any rate my original post is still true, Failing to properly train will result in failure of operation.

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HAHA, extra class myself actually, 4 of my family of 6 are tech licensed. I guess I was the only lucky person in the nation to get good fengs
As a matter of fact a feng programmed for 146.520, contrary to popular belief will communicate with a yasoo programmed at 146.520, and for the most part neither party will know what radio the other is using.
Around here, there’s a really good repeater about 50 miles away WR6ABD, on both 2/70, every single one of my fengs can communicate using that repeater, only 2 of my yasoo (2dr, vx6), the 70 (only 2m) has no luck (not even easier to program than the fengs). Knowing the locations/setups for most repeaters around here, I do not expect very many to be operable for more than a few days, although we’ve added solar to the most local one to me, it’s not easily accessed, if it gets no power solar will only work for a bit. Hams around here, not necessarily being ‘preppers’, upon having to choose, my guess is the repeater will be on the list of cuts to power consumption.
And as you said, my post is still accurate, calling it channel or memory location, baofeng of a similar model are all programmed with the same first 15 channels, I can post the list if you like. And they will all communicate with each other when within range and set to the same channel (memory location)
Simplex, my fengs do maybe half mile around my house, same with the yaesu, on top of a building a mile away from my house also works.
As to pre programmed freqs, I think most of them are out of band for ham, so you would be correct on that note. But SHTF, pretty sure there would be no such thing as FCC imposing fines.
That all being said, buy yourself a pair baofeng 888, maybe 20 bucks, every one of those that are shipped have the same 15 channel/frequencies programmed. Take them with you on trips, when you get to a hotel, turn one on in scan mode. I noticed a hotel I stayed at had an 888. They changed nothing and used them for maintenance, housekeeping and security. Since then I’ve found the same at multiple hotels. Your findings will likely be the same.

I do advocate getting licensed and knowing your radio, else I would not have gone to great lengths to get my family licensed. I do not however agree that adults are not smart enough to turn in a feng and communicate with their neighbor. If it were a radio with no programming at all my thoughts would be opposite.

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Old 08-02-2019, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Hunter Don View Post
A baofeng isn’t that hard to ‘figure out’
If I buy one, and you buy the same model 3 months later, they are both going to have the same channels already programmed as default. If you put them both on channel 3 and are in range of each other and push the button, you will be able to communicate. 8 year olds do that all the time. I don’t think a lot of folks intend on communications outside their small local group
Errr, I would not recommend doing that. I don't know if all Baofengs come with the same freqs programmed in the first place. One of mine came with no memories stored, looked like the result of a factory reset. But another UV-5 I got a couple years ago came out of the box with 20+ preprogrammed freqs, my channel 3 on that radio was 454.325 MHz.

If we both had the same freqs programmed from the factory, and we both selected Ch 3, we would both be in the middle of the UHF Part 90 Public Service band. If we both selected channel 1 we would be on 452.125, which is an active ambulance freq for my area. If we both selected channel 17 we would be on 138.55 MHz, an active military aviation frequency. If we both picked channel 21 we would be on 155.7 MHz, an active tactical fire frequency for my area. And this was the programming as the radio came out of the box.

That is why we have radio regulations and licensing for these kinds of radios. FRS radios, real, legal, FRS radios, can't accidentally step on police / fire / EMT traffic, because the legal FRS radios cannot be user programmed for frequency and come with all the legal frequencies you can use for FRS. But an untrained person with a wideband programmable radio might just pick any freq they want to program in, or do as you have said and just unknowingly select a preprogrammed freq, with no idea that they might be interfering with safety of life communications.

I live in the desert, and every weekend I hear traffic popping up on strange, illegal, frequencies as city folk head out to the desert for a little weekend get away. Some of these freqs are on particularly bad freqs to interfere with, others, of course, are on benign freqs. I have heard more than one group of weekenders using 155.160 MHz (or more often 150.150 MHz, close enough to interfere), a national Search and Rescue frequency.

I am all for smaller government and fewer regulations / restrictions, but radio is one of those areas where there needs to be structure and oversight. Without frequency management communications can become chaotic. Without licensing, regulation, and yes, radio type certification, you cannot maintain frequency management.

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Originally Posted by Hunter Don View Post
I personally don’t see repeaters lasting too awful long after an ‘event’ so being able to program to a repeater isn’t really a necessary skill. Although, for ppl that know how to use the equipment in the beginning can get a good head start at comms by using repeaters to coordinate from afar.
Taking a Saturday class and getting a license isn’t tough, but should not stop there. You do have to learn some things after to make comms better.
Many repeaters have backup power, some have long term backup power. I don't have any concept of what percentage do, but it is probably less than half. One of our local repeaters is off-grid, essentially on emergency power all the time. A major event, short of an EMP frying the site or something blowing a tower down, will not interrupt the operation of that repeater at all.

But I personally do not rely on repeaters for emergency communications. I do have the local and regional repeaters in every radio, but I seldom even flip to those freqs.

Yes, learning should never stop. And that is the reason someone should have a license, so that they can practice and build skills before an emergency occurs, so that they can be the most versatile possible when communications become more than just a hobby and actually mean something.

T!
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Old 08-02-2019, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter Don View Post
I guess I was the only lucky person in the nation to get good fengs


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I've had one for years now & at least with chirp they are easy to program. I think with good instructions in understandable English, they might be easy enough to program manually. There are numerous people on this board & others who have good ones too. I think it's no different than with AR's. People think if you don't spend at least $1K+ on a big name AR it's crap & will never work, but myself & many others have the budget builds & they work fine too. I just ordered some more Baofengs, a two pack of the dual band.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074Z63YFM/

Then I also decided to try one of the tri-bands.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01J2W4JUI/

If I hadn't also needed to get a few other toys that were on sale, I might have gotten more. Since I still have another month 1/2 to order them before they supposedly can't sell them with all the naughty features, I will probably order a couple more. If I don't like the tri-band, I might give this combo pkg. a try.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071XGQHH5/

If I do like the tri-band model, then I'll have to figure out what to do. So many toys & such little funds.
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Old 08-02-2019, 09:06 PM
Hunter Don Hunter Don is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstToken View Post
Errr, I would not recommend doing that. I don't know if all Baofengs come with the same freqs programmed in the first place. One of mine came with no memories stored, looked like the result of a factory reset. But another UV-5 I got a couple years ago came out of the box with 20+ preprogrammed freqs, my channel 3 on that radio was 454.325 MHz.

If we both had the same freqs programmed from the factory, and we both selected Ch 3, we would both be in the middle of the UHF Part 90 Public Service band. If we both selected channel 1 we would be on 452.125, which is an active ambulance freq for my area. If we both selected channel 17 we would be on 138.55 MHz, an active military aviation frequency. If we both picked channel 21 we would be on 155.7 MHz, an active tactical fire frequency for my area. And this was the programming as the radio came out of the box.

T!

Yep, channel 1, same, check
Channel 3, check
17, check
21, check
Like I said, they are all programmed the same. Your unprogrammed one is a one-off
you are right, its 21 channels programmed on the uv5s, and now that i've looked, its 16 on the 888.

I agree, they aren’t appropriate channels for normal use.
My point was from the get go, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to pick up 2 baofeng radios and turn them on and talk to each other

only a couple matching channels between the uv5 and 888.
1,,452.125000,,0.000000,TSQL,69.3,69.3,023,NN,FM,5 .00,,,,,,
2,,453.225000,,0.000000,TSQL,91.5,91.5,023,NN,FM,5 .00,,,,,,
3,,454.325000,,0.000000,TSQL,136.5,136.5,023,NN,FM ,5.00,,,,,,
4,,455.425000,,0.000000,TSQL,151.4,151.4,023,NN,FM ,5.00,,,,,,
5,,456.525000,,0.000000,TSQL,192.8,192.8,023,NN,FM ,5.00,,,,,,
6,,457.625000,,0.000000,TSQL,241.8,241.8,023,NN,FM ,5.00,,,,,,
7,,458.725000,,0.000000,DTCS,88.5,88.5,025,NN,FM,5 .00,,,,,,
8,,459.825000,,0.000000,DTCS,88.5,88.5,134,NN,FM,5 .00,,,,,,
9,,461.925000,,0.000000,DTCS,88.5,88.5,274,NN,FM,5 .00,,,,,,
10,,462.225000,,0.000000,DTCS,88.5,88.5,346,NN,FM, 5.00,,,,,,
11,,463.325000,,0.000000,DTCS,88.5,88.5,503,NN,FM, 5.00,,,,,,
12,,464.425000,,0.000000,DTCS,88.5,88.5,073,RR,FM, 5.00,,,,,,
13,,465.525000,,0.000000,DTCS,88.5,88.5,703,RR,FM, 5.00,,,,,,
14,,402.225000,,0.000000,,88.5,88.5,023,NN,FM,5.00 ,,,,,,
15,,437.425000,,0.000000,,88.5,88.5,023,NN,FM,5.00 ,,,,,,
16,,479.975000,,0.000000,,88.5,88.5,023,NN,FM,5.00 ,,,,,,
17,,138.550000,,0.000000,,88.5,88.5,023,NN,FM,5.00 ,,,,,,
18,,157.650000,,0.000000,,88.5,88.5,023,NN,FM,5.00 ,,,,,,
19,,172.750000,,0.000000,,88.5,88.5,023,NN,FM,5.00 ,,,,,,
20,,438.500000,,0.000000,,88.5,88.5,023,NN,FM,5.00 ,,,,,,
21,,155.700000,,0.000000,,88.5,88.5,023,NN,FM,5.00 ,,,,,,

and here's the 888
1,,462.125000,,0.000000,TSQL,88.5,69.3,023,NN,FM,5 .00,S,,,,,
2,,462.225000,,0.000000,,88.5,88.5,023,NN,FM,5.00, S,,,,,
3,,462.325000,,0.000000,,88.5,88.5,023,NN,FM,5.00, S,,,,,
4,,462.425000,,0.000000,TSQL,88.5,103.5,023,NN,FM, 5.00,S,,,,,
5,,462.525000,,0.000000,TSQL,88.5,114.8,023,NN,FM, 5.00,S,,,,,
6,,462.625000,,0.000000,TSQL,88.5,127.3,023,NN,FM, 5.00,S,,,,,
7,,462.725000,,0.000000,TSQL,88.5,136.5,023,NN,FM, 5.00,S,,,,,
8,,462.825000,,0.000000,TSQL,88.5,162.2,023,NN,FM, 5.00,S,,,,,
9,,462.925000,,0.000000,DTCS,88.5,88.5,023,NN,FM,5 .00,S,,,,,
10,,463.025000,,0.000000,DTCS,88.5,88.5,023,NN,FM, 5.00,S,,,,,
11,,463.125000,,0.000000,DTCS,88.5,88.5,023,NN,FM, 5.00,S,,,,,
12,,463.225000,,0.000000,DTCS,88.5,88.5,023,RR,FM, 5.00,S,,,,,
13,,463.525000,,0.000000,DTCS,88.5,88.5,023,RR,FM, 5.00,S,,,,,
14,,450.225000,,0.000000,DTCS,88.5,88.5,023,NN,FM, 5.00,S,,,,,
15,,460.325000,,0.000000,,88.5,88.5,023,NN,FM,5.00 ,S,,,,,
16,,469.950000,,0.000000,TSQL,88.5,203.5,023,NN,FM ,5.00,S,,,,,


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