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Old 07-02-2019, 09:49 PM
PalmettoTree PalmettoTree is online now
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All I need to take is my wife. She will have enough for four people for four days.
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Old 07-03-2019, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by evilwhitey View Post
Unless you use a tracking system like geargrams.com or lighterpack.com there's no way to accurately estimate how much a load out weighs. Their shelter and sleep system alone weigh around 10lbs. The remaining list is well over 10lbs.

Don't get me wrong, I've seen much heavier lists posted here, but that's a whole lot closer to 30lbs (maybe even over 30lbs) than it is 20lbs and way overkill for a day hike. At some point carrying gear becomes a liability to injury prevention and self-rescue.
Agreed. My "day-hike" kit is way overkill for shorter hikes (and weighed in just under 20 pounds without water), but was really intended for a single night/two day hike during cooler weather. Once you start seriously backpacking and literally weighing every item in your pack, you get a good feel for how much gear weighs. I've seen guys with a dozen storage bags for various items in the packs, and I know I've weight numerous "bags" from mesh, dyneema fabric, Cordura, Ziplocs, etc. and some of those storage bags can add up to a pound or more when all weighed together.

I still prefer a small hydration-type day pack, especially on anything more than 6-8 miles or if over rugged terrain, but there are equally good choices such as a small shoulder bag or lumbar pack. Even sticking with some basic essentials, it shouldn't be more than 10-15 pounds in a small day-pack.

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Old 07-03-2019, 07:44 AM
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I think percent of body weight is more meaningful than absolute pounds.

I'm a big guy. I just lost 35 lbs in the last few months and I can barely notice the weight difference.

I played ping pong with someone when I was heavier and I would miss shots I used to be able to maneuver to. The opponent was 120 lbs lighter than me.

My comment was , "Hey, strap 120 lbs to your back and we'll see how fast you can dive for those deep corner shots".

A 30-40 lb pack would be barely noticeable as long as the straps were adjusted well.
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Old 07-03-2019, 08:53 AM
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I think percent of body weight is more meaningful than absolute pounds.

I'm a big guy. I just lost 35 lbs in the last few months and I can barely notice the weight difference.

I played ping pong with someone when I was heavier and I would miss shots I used to be able to maneuver to. The opponent was 120 lbs lighter than me.

My comment was , "Hey, strap 120 lbs to your back and we'll see how fast you can dive for those deep corner shots".

A 30-40 lb pack would be barely noticeable as long as the straps were adjusted well.
Agreed that % of bodyweight certainly plays a part. That said, a 300lb dude carrying a 30lb pack will still more than likely be a whole lot slower than a 150lb dude carrying a 15lb pack over distance. Obviously there are going to be exceptions for an extremely fit/muscular heavier dude vs an untrained smaller guy.

% of lean body mass is probably the best indicator if you want an apples to apples comparison.

In general, the less overall weight the better for backpacking.
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Old 07-03-2019, 02:34 PM
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In general, the less overall weight the better for backpacking.
While individual fitness plays a big role, many who haven't backpacked (or ruck-marched) in a while forget the impact pack weight has on the body (even more so with added age). Fatigue compounds and while the weight may be manageable for a short trek, the affects add up for longer treks or at least until your body adapts to terrain and conditions. At least with my current conditioning and age, my body can definitely feel the difference of an added 5-10 pounds.

When I was younger, 100 pounds felt the same as 60 pounds. These days, I feel every pound!

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Old 07-03-2019, 02:51 PM
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While individual fitness plays a big role, many who haven't backpacked (or ruck-marched) in a while forget the impact pack weight has on the body (even more so with added age). Fatigue compounds and while the weight may be manageable for a short trek, the affects add up for longer treks or at least until your body adapts to terrain and conditions. At least with my current conditioning and age, my body can definitely feel the difference of an added 5-10 pounds.

When I was younger, 100 pounds felt the same as 60 pounds. These days, I feel every pound!

ROCK6
Spot on. I backpacked last week with around 5lbs more than I usually do and between it being early in the season (I've been busier than normal and am in poor shape) and the weight, I was feeling it. The impression I get is that many of the heavy pack crowd who post on here haven't hauled their heavy packs very far and live at low elevation and primarily hike flat ground with little to no elevation gain/loss.

I took a very fit 27yo kid from Texas on a short 7 mile hike with ~ 3,500ft of elevation gain (1100ft a mile for 3 miles of it) starting at 6500ft and for the first mile he did ok. I noticed him slowing after the first mile and by the time we hit 9k he was barely able to put one foot in front of the other. It wasn't just the altitude, it was also terrain and elevation gain/loss that beat him up. On the way down he was clearly rekt and moving slowly. Kid was pretty jacked and could probably easily deadlift 400lbs but got beat up on a simple hike.

Weight makes an enormous difference when you're not walking on flat ground at low altitude. It makes a difference as you age and your joints become more creaky. It makes a difference if you have injuries, etc.

I'm firmly in the "go as light as safely possible" camp because I've met up with countless people in their late 60s, 70s and even 80s that are still doing their thing but have been smart about it and I want to do the same. That and it's a whole lot more enjoyable to go fast and light than slow and heavy.
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Old 07-03-2019, 06:11 PM
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I ACTUALLY styled this scenario after the terrain and conditions around my day hikes I take in Alaska,… with a few modifications (change the elk to caribou and add moose and you pretty well have it) and primarily Denali(although in Denali there are no marked trails once you are away from the visitor center.)
So, what I would take for Denali would be the same for THIS trip.

My attire will be my ever present woodland camo BDUs no long johns needed, depending on the early morning temps it will be Tshirt, thermal long sleeve shirt, sweatshirt, and lined windbreaker. The hat is ALWAYS my Indiana Jones wide brim fedora type, great for sun, rain, snow and if you have to don a bug headnet, it keeps the material away from your face and neck 360 degrees. Boots will be Danner “Vicious” hiking boots. AND GAITERS.. never without gaiters and a good pair of leather faced gloves.
I have learned to appreciate the cheap throw away items that pack very light and you never have to fight to reuse because you just discard them when you return to base. Like, temporary shelters, rain ponchos, space blankets, head nets, plastic utensils.

Every day in Denali I used to weigh the pack before heading out. It averaged 25lbs, but a little over half that was photo gear. The rest, fire starter related, survival straw, 2 days worth of freeze dried food and energy bars, maps, 2 compasses, BIG knife, (the knife, a Cold Steel Black Bear Bowie, has 20’ of limp snare wire and about 30’ of real paracord wrapped around the handle. That way it fits my hand and also has some good supplies attached.) first aid kit, aluminum canteen cup, NO canteen, depending on weather, likely rain, a good poncho big enough to cover the pack and which can also serve as a pretty good overnight shelter if needed, BEAR SPRAY, Bear horn, (small freon horn, also double as an emergency signal device)) PRLB, 3 or 4 bottles of water depending on where I was gong and the weather and if I might cook up a meal instead of munching on bars. I like taking the time to fix a hot meal on a hike into the deep and enjoy the sights and sounds. I like the plastic water bottles because when empty they crush down to nothing in size and weight. One of those like 23 blade/function Swiss Army knifes, Walmart camping section plastic shelter, a couple of same space blankets, and head net a pair of hiking sticks, folding trioxane stove and a handful of tabs. Small bottle of water purification tablets, and dry socks.

THE PRLB was at the insistence of my wife and sister. It is so it will be easier to locate the body for insurance purposes…but THEY SAY it is the fact I am 70… it may have something to do with it…I guess.

I take more food than needed but Denali is a BIG place and even though planning a day hike, you get hurt or sick you don’t want to run out of calories getting back and even though I carry the PRLB, there are no guarantees that it actually WILL work when I need it the most or that the signal is received properly. I have to be ready to do it the hard way if necessary. I would do the same on this hike.
I have an Osprey pack for all my gear but if I was going to leave the cameras I would take my frameless ALICE for toting the gear.
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Old 07-03-2019, 09:47 PM
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SEE ADDED POST BELOW



YOU would feel comfortable with taking/packing
FOR A DAY HIKE

The conditions are
time of year
Mid-late Spring or mid-Fall

weather
predicted cloudy, hi to be in 50s. Chance of late rain

location
wilderness forest, elevations vary from 2000-5000 feet
Not a popular location because of the remoteness and no cell signal capability

trail conditions
a rarely used trail through national forest, it is marked well enough if you pay attention. mostly comprising hard packed forest floor with a mix of also rocky and a little boggy from brooks and streams coming down from the surrounding mountains.

fauna
the usual mix, black and grizzly bears, elk and deer and the usual small critters. There have been no bear incidents in that forest within memory.

There are 2 possible trails to take
1- takes you through higher ground and is approximately 5 miles in length and returns back almost to the parking lot.
2- Stays more to the valleys but unless you backtrack it is longer by 3 miles before hooking back to bring you back to your vehicle.

Experience- You have never hiked that area before. A friend referred it to you because it is beautiful country and while he has hiked the area at least 10 times over the years, he has never seen another person any time.

Your plan is to get there early and be out well before dark


Actually I had no intent on doing something like this BUT… someone brought up the possibility and so … look at this part as “extra credit” as to how you handle the situation and how well prepared you are for it.

THE..THING that happens

You are on your hike, at your furthest point into the park…
A meteor, 20 meters across that has been undetected because it has been coming out of the sun(like that last big one in Russia) comes streaking into the highest mountain above the valley. The pressure wave coming off the front of the asteroid literally knocks you off your feet, and the sound is like a billion bombs going off. It brings giant boulders crashing down into the valley taking the trees with it and now the valley with all its trails looks like the jackstraw mess after Mt. St. Helens blew.
You wake up and find, sometime during the incident a large rock or something must have smashed into your left arm as it now dangles pretty useless from your shoulder. It may just be numb from the impact or may be broken but there is no feeling to it other than not working right at present. Also, your right leg isn’t working too well, when you awoke it was twisted at a weird angle under you. it will support your weight but just barely. The trail you were planning on using to take back to your vehicle is gone. In its place is a mountain of torn and flipped trees and rocks the size of houses. You will have to navigate a whole new path to get out…

Because of the changes in trees and forest and mountain side, from your elevation you can actually see the miles to where you left your vehicle. The parking lot is now buried under a hundred feet of dirt and rubble where a landslide running down the mountain came to rest. Even if someone comes, no one will ever have a clue that you or anyone had a vehicle there.

IT is starting to grow dark.
You do what, tonight, tomorrow, and the next…..?????
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Old 07-04-2019, 12:11 AM
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Actually I had no intent on doing something like this BUT… someone brought up the possibility and so … look at this part as “extra credit” as to how you handle the situation and how well prepared you are for it.

THE..THING that happens

You are on your hike, at your furthest point into the park…
A meteor, 20 meters across that has been undetected because it has been coming out of the sun(like that last big one in Russia) comes streaking into the highest mountain above the valley. The pressure wave coming off the front of the asteroid literally knocks you off your feet, and the sound is like a billion bombs going off. It brings giant boulders crashing down into the valley taking the trees with it and now the valley with all its trails looks like the jackstraw mess after Mt. St. Helens blew.
You wake up and find, sometime during the incident a large rock or something must have smashed into your left arm as it now dangles pretty useless from your shoulder. It may just be numb from the impact or may be broken but there is no feeling to it other than not working right at present. Also, your right leg isn’t working too well, when you awoke it was twisted at a weird angle under you. it will support your weight but just barely. The trail you were planning on using to take back to your vehicle is gone. In its place is a mountain of torn and flipped trees and rocks the size of houses. You will have to navigate a whole new path to get out…

Because of the changes in trees and forest and mountain side, from your elevation you can actually see the miles to where you left your vehicle. The parking lot is now buried under a hundred feet of dirt and rubble where a landslide running down the mountain came to rest. Even if someone comes, no one will ever have a clue that you or anyone had a vehicle there.

IT is starting to grow dark.
You do what, tonight, tomorrow, and the next…..?????
Cool scenario. Assuming you don't have a beacon; find water, build a fire and hunker down. An impact that size will have people crawling all over it in no time flat, even in the boonies.
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Old 07-04-2019, 12:17 AM
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Originally Posted by NW GUY View Post
Actually I had no intent on doing something like this BUT… someone brought up the possibility and so … look at this part as “extra credit” as to how you handle the situation and how well prepared you are for it.

THE..THING that happens

You are on your hike, at your furthest point into the park…
A meteor, 20 meters across that has been undetected because it has been coming out of the sun(like that last big one in Russia) comes streaking into the highest mountain above the valley. The pressure wave coming off the front of the asteroid literally knocks you off your feet, and the sound is like a billion bombs going off. It brings giant boulders crashing down into the valley taking the trees with it and now the valley with all its trails looks like the jackstraw mess after Mt. St. Helens blew.
You wake up and find, sometime during the incident a large rock or something must have smashed into your left arm as it now dangles pretty useless from your shoulder. It may just be numb from the impact or may be broken but there is no feeling to it other than not working right at present. Also, your right leg isn’t working too well, when you awoke it was twisted at a weird angle under you. it will support your weight but just barely. The trail you were planning on using to take back to your vehicle is gone. In its place is a mountain of torn and flipped trees and rocks the size of houses. You will have to navigate a whole new path to get out…

Because of the changes in trees and forest and mountain side, from your elevation you can actually see the miles to where you left your vehicle. The parking lot is now buried under a hundred feet of dirt and rubble where a landslide running down the mountain came to rest. Even if someone comes, no one will ever have a clue that you or anyone had a vehicle there.

IT is starting to grow dark.
You do what, tonight, tomorrow, and the next…..?????

Well, in my post, item #1 was a beacon. So I would turn on the beacon.
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Old 07-04-2019, 11:00 AM
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Bottle of water, PNB cracker snacks, garbage bag for emergency poncho, cell phone, Security Six chest carry, Randall model 5 knife and compass. Nothing heavy enough to turn a hike into a chore.
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Old 07-04-2019, 01:51 PM
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If a meteor event like that happened to where it was strong enough to destroy part of the mountain in front of you and cover the parking lot behind you and just about destroy all the trees around happens, it would be unlikely a person in the middle would survive it.

With that being said the BIBLE I would have would be an extreme comfort while trying to make it out. Also the compass and map would be very helpful. I would slowly and carefully try to make it back to that lot, because even if its is destroyed a meteor like that would bring in people to inspect what had happened and would most likely bring in first res ponders. These people would still go towards that parking lot because it was the road in and out.

I would most likely wait near that road and or attempt to slowy go back down the road when I could in between resting.
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Old 07-04-2019, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by enemy mind View Post
Not trying to derail the thread, but the man said grizzly bears, not teddy bears.
Check out Denmark's Sirius Ski Patrols in Greenland using Glock 20s in 10mm to stop Polar Bears. With the right bullet, it's a super stopper.

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/nra/...startid=59#/60
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Old 07-04-2019, 07:14 PM
Rett Rett is offline
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Treat a day hike in a remote area with unpredictable conditions, like a ten day ordeal with broken legs. Then ask what you would need.
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Old 07-04-2019, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by NW GUY View Post
Actually I had no intent on doing something like this BUT… someone brought up the possibility and so … look at this part as “extra credit” as to how you handle the situation and how well prepared you are for it.

THE..THING that happens

You are on your hike, at your furthest point into the park…
A meteor, 20 meters across that has been undetected because it has been coming out of the sun(like that last big one in Russia) comes streaking into the highest mountain above the valley. The pressure wave coming off the front of the asteroid literally knocks you off your feet, and the sound is like a billion bombs going off. It brings giant boulders crashing down into the valley taking the trees with it and now the valley with all its trails looks like the jackstraw mess after Mt. St. Helens blew.
You wake up and find, sometime during the incident a large rock or something must have smashed into your left arm as it now dangles pretty useless from your shoulder. It may just be numb from the impact or may be broken but there is no feeling to it other than not working right at present. Also, your right leg isn’t working too well, when you awoke it was twisted at a weird angle under you. it will support your weight but just barely. The trail you were planning on using to take back to your vehicle is gone. In its place is a mountain of torn and flipped trees and rocks the size of houses. You will have to navigate a whole new path to get out…

Because of the changes in trees and forest and mountain side, from your elevation you can actually see the miles to where you left your vehicle. The parking lot is now buried under a hundred feet of dirt and rubble where a landslide running down the mountain came to rest. Even if someone comes, no one will ever have a clue that you or anyone had a vehicle there.

IT is starting to grow dark.
You do what, tonight, tomorrow, and the next…..?????
I can't wait till the movie comes out.
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Old 07-04-2019, 08:01 PM
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i can't wait till the movie comes out.
stay tuned.... :d: :d: :d:
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Old 07-04-2019, 09:07 PM
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For a day hike .
FAK , 357 mag ,and bowie knife.
and wear clothes suitable for the event.
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Old 07-04-2019, 09:37 PM
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A walk? I carry a small summer sausage and a chunk of cheese, a Bic lighter, a pocketknife, a small hank of paracord and a 16oz water bottle pretty much everywhere I go. Jacket pocket.
Camera and maybe an extra lens. Longer walk, day hike? Small shoulder bag with a first aid kit box stuffed full of various stuff. Add a couple of sausage and egg biscuits from McD's or Bojangles. I carry a .38 snubby most everywhere I go and am allowed to. I carry a .22 LR/.22mag sometimes. If it's a REAL day hike, I go LBE with a fanny pack and a few extra pouches and a couple of canteens. I tote a Ruger 10/22 often. Never encountered a grizzly but I have seen quite a few blacks. Haven't been bothered by any yet.
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Old 07-05-2019, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rett View Post
Treat a day hike in a remote area with unpredictable conditions, like a ten day ordeal with broken legs. Then ask what you would need.
EVEN for a pleasant "walk in the park" I prepare for it going V.E.R.Y. bad.

I live in the woods and have tens of thousands of State forest just across the street.
I still carry a light pack including a PRLB just because... it is the smart thing to do.
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Old 07-05-2019, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Steelhead View Post
Check out Denmark's Sirius Ski Patrols in Greenland using Glock 20s in 10mm to stop Polar Bears. With the right bullet, it's a super stopper.

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/nra/...startid=59#/60
You don't have much of a sense of humor in these things do you?

If you insist on arguing what's big enough, then I call your 10mm, and raise you a Brenneke 12 gauge magnum crush for bear.

https://www.brennekeusa.com/hunting-...agnum-crushtm/

Yes, it's shot placement that counts the most.

I thought referring to teddy bears would let you know I was pulling your leg.
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