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Trade Deal Dead: Trump Cranks Up Tariffs On China SurvivalOfTheFit General Discussion 24 05-10-2019 09:19 PM
Does Trump not know how tariff's work? lucky strike Political News and Discussion 52 01-19-2019 06:57 PM
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The EU Blinks - Offers U.S. Concessions to Avoid Trade War Batko10 Political News and Discussion 107 08-12-2018 09:16 AM

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Old 08-23-2019, 09:16 PM
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Don't we live in a free market society.

Looks like someone is fundamentally trying to change the United States. I think they call that fascism. Not sure though...
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Old 08-23-2019, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by zumhug View Post


Don't we live in a free market society.

Looks like someone is fundamentally trying to change the United States. I think they call that fascism. Not sure though...

Barack HUSSEIN Obama - Oct. 2008:

Quote:
"Now, Mizzou, I just have two words for you tonight: five days. Five days. After decades of broken politics in Washington, and eight years of failed policies from George W. Bush, and 21 months of a campaign that's taken us from the rocky coast of Maine to the sunshine of California, we are five days away from fundamentally transforming the United States of America.

"In five days, you can turn the page on policies that put greed and irresponsibility on Wall Street before the hard work and sacrifice of folks on Main Street. In five days, you can choose policies that invest in our middle class, and create new jobs, and grow this economy, so that everyone has a chance to succeed, not just the CEO, but the secretary and janitor, not just the factory owner, but the men and women on the factory floor."
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Old 08-24-2019, 05:48 AM
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Quote:
"Hereby ordered?" Is he the king of industry now?

Don't get me wrong, I love this president, but the media will have a field day with that wording. Especially on a tweet.
You're correct, but it's kind of meaningless. Here's why:

Imagine some CEO type running a big corporation with a strong China presence in their supply chain/marketplace (say GM, Microsoft, Google, Nike, Facebook, etc.) who decides to stand up and say that they don't take orders from Trump.

Whoever (CEO type) is stupid enough to do that just pasted a target on their back, and their corporation. And it's not because of a 'vindictive US government'. I figure the US government would probably be third in line (at best).

First off, Financial. Any financial analyst/planner who does this for a living has already worked the numbers and realizes their current China based supply chain is doing risky business. You don't need a lot of things to go sideways, just one or 2 things and your components supply chain is disrupted. And THAT'S where the real money is.

Second, Integrity. Don't underestimate the US public's growing view of China. And all the Cheap Chinese Crap being sold. It's hard to build a reputation for quality, but easy to lose it. Look at what's happening to Amazon product reviews. People are starting to think that a large portion of the reviews are fake, and Amazon is finding that it's hard to avoid taking that hit. There's a lot of C-Suite folks out there who are shaking in their footware wondering how they are going to avoid a reputational disaster to their corporation over their China presence. Especially IF China crushes the Hong Kong democracy movement.

Third is Fentanyl (and other similar substances):

Remember this tweet:

Quote:
He also ordered "all carriers, including Fed Ex, Amazon, UPS and the Post Office, to SEARCH FOR & REFUSE, all deliveries of Fentanyl from China (or anywhere else!).

Fentanyl kills 100,000 Americans a year. President Xi said this would stop - it didnít."
Imagine IF every container ship has to be checked by Customs. Swipe test on every single container. What's your supply chain from China look like then? What happens if a container tests positive? Does the US send the entire container ship back unloaded?

Fourth, Hong Kong. No idea what happens to those China supply chains if that whole situation goes crazy.

How would you like to be a CEO with a large China supply chain presence having to confront those types of issues?
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Old 08-24-2019, 05:54 AM
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Yes, inspections are the other major way to eliminate imports. China used to do it to our ships loaded with perishables. (I think it was China, but might have been Japan) Need to get inspected before unloading. And by the time the inspector showed up, the fruit was rotten.
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Old 08-24-2019, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by zumhug View Post


Don't we live in a free market society.

Looks like someone is fundamentally trying to change the United States. I think they call that fascism. Not sure though...
If our President decides that a Country who exports illegal Drugs to the
US, hidden in shipments of legal goods, needs to be stopped. Its not
fascism. Its called enforcing the law.

Trump Said China would pay for the Tariffs, they have been.
There is no country that is a greater threat to us than China.

President Trump only has until the election to win this Trade War.
If he can't do it, China's President takes over America, disguised
as a Democrat.
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Old 08-24-2019, 11:28 AM
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Love him or hate him, he gets it wrong sometimes, other times he's on the money. He's real and he's not perfect. The media establishment and the left hate him. That tells me all I ever need to know.

He's fought harder for this country than any president in the last 50 years.

American companies have for years made profits off sacking American workers and moving their operations overseas. Who cares if they bleed a little.

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Old 08-24-2019, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Justme11 View Post
"Hereby ordered?" Is he the king of industry now?
Of course he doesn't have the legal authority to order any such thing. He is just bloviating which is what he does best.

But it seems to me that having reliable backup suppliers is simply the prudent thing to do. That would be in every company's best interest.
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Old 08-24-2019, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by small.business.guy.1 View Post
There's some very interesting gossip (totally unconfirmed) floating around out there. It revolves around HSBC.

HSBC - Wikipedia

IF it's true, wow....

HQ (London) just announced 3 days ago that the CEO is out - Immediately. HSBC CEO Out

Now the leaks are coming out.

Supposedly, HSBC has been providing substantial USD funding (an artificial USD 'backstop') to China to help support the yuan. The numbers being talked about are in the $400 billion to as high as $650 billion USD.

Now, HSBC Securities (USA) is also designated as a PRIMARY DEALER. Primary Dealer

In other words, HSBC is (maybe 'was') 'In The Club'. And if they were found to be taking up sides, well IF the rumors are true, maybe not for long....
HSBC is a horrible despicable institution. Even worse than BofAmerica
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Old 08-24-2019, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by woobla View Post
Love him or hate him, he gets it wrong sometimes, other times he's on the money. He's real and he's not perfect. The media establishment and the left hate him. That tells me all I ever need to know.

He's fought harder for this country than any president in the last 50 years.

American companies have for years made profits off sacking American workers and moving their operations overseas. Who cares if they bleed a little.

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What Trump is doing is copying China, which restricts trade and controls borders.

What U.S. companies have been doing for years is called "capitalism."
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Old 08-24-2019, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by PoorRichard05 View Post
Of course he doesn't have the legal authority to order any such thing. He is just bloviating which is what he does best.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/24/w...g7-summit.html

Quote:
For all of the Fake News Reporters that donít have a clue as to what the law is relative to Presidential powers, China, etc., try looking at the Emergency Economic Powers Act of 1977. Case closed!

ó Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) August 24, 2019
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Old 08-24-2019, 06:59 PM
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What Trump is doing is copying China, which restricts trade and controls borders.

What U.S. companies have been doing for years is called "capitalism."
When a U.S. company shuts down because China stole it's ideas, and
undersold it because they devalued their currency, it's not called "capitalism,"
its called Bankruptcy.
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Old 08-25-2019, 12:46 AM
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Originally Posted by AZ_HighCountry View Post
Barack HUSSEIN Obama - Oct. 2008:
Hey, Obama did it too...

Does that make it better or worse than we have President that once again has blinded support by his base to do this? And here we are now, defending it because the other guy did it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Truck Vet View Post
If our President decides that a Country who exports illegal Drugs to the US, hidden in shipments of legal goods, needs to be stopped. Its not fascism. Its called enforcing the law.
The President doesn't enforce the law, the Attorney General does.

I agree the drugs need to stop. 100,000 people died last year to OD. We hear that we are being invaded on the southern border and the number of deaths from that is minuscule but 100,000 die due to OD and we get a tweet.

A TWEET...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Truck Vet View Post
Trump Said China would pay for the Tariffs, they have been.
There is no country that is a greater threat to us than China.
Actually, the US citizen is paying for the tariffs. The farmers have been bailed out twice due to this.

China is lower on the list than you could comprehend but you are also ok with a tweet as a deterrent to illegal drugs coming into this nation, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Truck Vet View Post
President Trump only has until the election to win this Trade War. If he can't do it, China's President takes over America, disguised as a Democrat.
There are plenty of options rather than a full-blown trade war. Tweets won't solve it, it only energizes the base.

If the Democrats win due to Trump's trade war it will be on him and his low info base. Period.
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Old 08-25-2019, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zumhug View Post
Hey, Obama did it too...








Actually, the US citizen is paying for the tariffs. The farmers have been bailed out twice due to this.

China is lower on the list than you could comprehend but you are also ok with a tweet as a deterrent to illegal drugs coming into this nation, right?


There are plenty of options rather than a full-blown trade war. Tweets won't solve it, it only energizes the base.

If the Democrats win due to Trump's trade war it will be on him and his low info base. Period.
Let me explain how China is paying for the Tariffs, since you just
demonstrated how you don't understand. It is complex but since I listen
to NPR, and Talk radio for hours a day, I have it figured out.

As these tariffs have taken effect, China's currency has been devalued while
our currency hasn't changed very much. Not only was it reported, but I have
noticed it, by the price of Chinese goods.

Lets say Lee is a manager at a Chinese factory, who buys imported Baby food
for his new born son, because he does not trust the local stuff.
Since the Tariffs have taken place, Lee has had to pay more for
the food not because it has a Tariff on it but because the wages
he is paid don't buy as much. His baby food is made in
a plant that is not in either the US or China.

Jeff is an American who buys Chinese knives for his collection, one a month
that are shipped directly from China. The price on his knives have
not changed because as Tariffs have been put on them, China devalued their
currency in the hopes that they could keep exporting the knives to Jeff, while
keeping Lee working.

As these goods have been imported to the US these Tariffs have been
collected and some of the money has been given to our farmers who have
suffered from low prices for their products. But as you can see,
its not the American people who have paid for them.

Jeff also noticed when he went shopping the other day that the price of
pork went down, so he bought 50 pounds of it for his freezer, while Lee
has to buy imported Pork which has doubled in price.

See how that works?

Personally I would rather have free trade, but because China is trying to
destroy our industry by putting our Steel producers out of business, along
with others, I am fine with more trade with Mexico and South America to
replace much of the trade with China. This would multiply the Jobs down
there and give those people good reason not to come up here.

Once these factories are built in Mexico and to the south, and the
thousands of illegals stop walking up here, wages for Americans
will continue to rise because they will have to be paid more due
to lower unemployment. There will be more jobs in skilled
areas maintaining the machines that manufacture
the knives that Jeff used to buy from China but will start buying from the
US, that are made from US steel.
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Old 08-25-2019, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Truck Vet View Post
When a U.S. company shuts down because China stole it's ideas, and
undersold it because they devalued their currency, it's not called "capitalism," its called Bankruptcy.
Well now. I completely agree with that.

In the paper today George Will said the tariffs will raise taxes and lose jobs. He and all the other business commentators are so shortsighted. Or were they born yesterday?

30 years of China stealing our inventions has cost countless good jobs and is killing more every day. Ten more years of this and the national economy will be delivering pizzas to each other. This thievery has got to stop. Ideas are welcome - but if you don't have one, shut up.
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Old 08-25-2019, 11:27 AM
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Well now. I completely agree with that.

In the paper today George Will said the tariffs will raise taxes and lose jobs. He and all the other business commentators are so shortsighted. Or were they born yesterday?

30 years of China stealing our inventions has cost countless good jobs and is killing more every day. Ten more years of this and the national economy will be delivering pizzas to each other. This thievery has got to stop. Ideas are welcome - but if you don't have one, shut up.
Anytime you make big changes, you lose jobs in one area and gain
them in another. When the Ford Model T started full assembly line
production, I bet it costs jobs making wagons that were pulled by horses.

There are people who deal with China who will lose their Jobs. If we cut
way back on the business we do with China, I bet there are Congressmen
who will lose plenty of money.

Not buying steel for less than it costs to produce will be painful also.
But if we are to remain the number one superpower, these are things
we have to do.

Do we want our grandchildren to be told what religion they are allowed to
practice? How many children they are allowed to have? Do we want them to
speak English, or Chinese? Believe it or not, this is what you are voting for in
2020.
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Old 08-25-2019, 03:47 PM
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These were last week's (08.19-08.23.2019) numbers:

Quote:
It's been an interesting week in the USD/CNY market:

Monday (08.18.2019): 7.0412: 1.000 USD / 7.0412 = 0.14242 (Offshore yuan)
Wednesday (08.20.2019): 7.0644: 1.000 USD / 7.0644 = 0.14156 (Offshore yuan)
Friday Open: (08.22.2019): 7.0830: 1.000 USD / 7.0830 = 0.141128 (Offshore yuan)
Most recent (Friday; 08.22.2019): 1.000 USD / 7.0956 = 0.14093 (Offshore yuan)
Here's today's early Asia opening numbers:

Most recent (EARLY Monday Open; 08.25.2019): 1.000 USD / 7.1925 = 0.13903 (Offshore yuan)

That's a big time loss of purchasing power - in a week's time.

This tells Trump exactly how desperate China is for USD Foreign Xchange. When you are ready to create food instability within your own country just to keep exporting to the USA to earn more dollars, well, that's desperation.
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Old 08-25-2019, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Truck Vet View Post
Let me explain how China is paying for the Tariffs, since you just
demonstrated how you don't understand. It is complex but since I listen
to NPR, and Talk radio for hours a day, I have it figured out.
Not sure if this is scarasm, but the amount of effort you put into this, I doubt it.
Thanks, I'm so glad the NPR pro came into explaining this. Clearly, NPR is equivalent to a pundit on CNN spouting off. Only they might not be as big a partisan hack.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Truck Vet View Post
As these tariffs have taken effect, China's currency has been devalued while our currency hasn't changed very much. Not only was it reported, but I have noticed it, by the price of Chinese goods.
Our currency is only stable because we print our own money.
When the cost of goods go up, they pass on that increased to the consumer. Didn't NPR explain that?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Truck Vet View Post
As these goods have been imported to the US these Tariffs have been collected and some of the money has been given to our farmers who have suffered from low prices for their products. But as you can see, its not the American people who have paid for them.
The money came out of our pockets. This was not collected monies, it was give farmers because of their decreased sales due to the...
TRADE WAR!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Truck Vet View Post
See how that works?
The only thing I see is that you can lie to yourself in order to not place the blame where it belongs.

I don't have the time or energy to continue responding to someone who won't accept reality anyway. You are like talking to a liberal who is defending a life long liberal.
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Old 08-25-2019, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by PoorRichard05 View Post
Of course he doesn't have the legal authority to order any such thing. He is just bloviating which is what he does best.

But it seems to me that having reliable backup suppliers is simply the prudent thing to do. That would be in every company's best interest.

You need to bone up on your almanac dude....


The Emergency Economic Powers Act of 1977 gives the President pretty broad powers...


Quote:
The EEPA authorizes the president to declare the existence of an "unusual and extraordinary threat... to the national security, foreign policy, or economy of the United States" that originates "in whole or substantial part outside the United States."[4] It further authorizes the president, after such a declaration, to block transactions and freeze assets to deal with the threat.[5] In the event of an actual attack on the United States, the president can also confiscate property connected with a country, group, or person that aided in the attack.[6]

he would face challenges from Congress... but the Act exists, and he can use it.
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Old 08-25-2019, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zumhug View Post


Our currency is only stable because we print our own money.
When the cost of goods go up, they pass on that increased to the consumer. Didn't NPR explain that?





If I buy a Ganzo knife, straight from China before the Tariffs for $26 dollars.
Then Trump puts a 25 percent Tariff on that same model.
So I lost my knife and buy another one.

This same model which has a 25 percent Tariff on it now costs me $26 dollars.

Why?

Because China devalued their currency so that I would not buy a Buck knife
instead.

I hope you can understand it now.

Good luck

So when I bought that second knife about $5 dollars went towards paying the
Tariff. I didn't notice it because I paid the same amount that I paid for the first knife. Yet $5 went in a fund, which paid our farmers to make up for the
money they lost on the low price of Grain and Pork.
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Old 08-25-2019, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steverino View Post
You need to bone up on your almanac dude....


The Emergency Economic Powers Act of 1977 gives the President pretty broad powers...





he would face challenges from Congress... but the Act exists, and he can use it.
That's great information

Here it was, I thought Trump may just stop every Chinese Ship in port and
have people spend 6 months searching them for illegal Drugs, top to bottom.

I doubt Congress can challenge him on that. At least not until the Democrats
get a veto proof majority in both houses.
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