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Old 03-10-2009, 08:09 PM
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Default Alice Pack and MSS Carrier on External Frame



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Some forum members have sent PM's to me regarding
the use of a medium Alice Pack with an external frame.
(A commercial frame, not the Alice frame).
A high quality, well designed backpacking frame solves
many problems of the Alice system in terms of comfort
and load carrying capability.
The example shown utilizes a Cabelas Alaskan Guide Frame, Medium Alice Pack, and a Modular Sleep System
Carrier Bag. Variations on this theme are possible, so use
your imagination.
I have attached some images showing how everything is
put together. Cost of the components was $85.
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Old 03-10-2009, 08:26 PM
kingjames kingjames is offline
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Very nice setup. I like that alot!
I have one question only!
The side bags in the second picture. Please more info on these!
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Old 03-10-2009, 09:26 PM
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will that work on an alice pack large?
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Old 03-10-2009, 09:42 PM
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I like it alot, Ive used a Med. Alice for around 20 years, Very tough,but the frame, Not that great. Nice pics.
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Old 03-10-2009, 10:05 PM
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Default RE: Alice Pack with External Frame

A large Alice pack will work equally well since both the Medium
and large versions use the same military frame. The large
is 2" taller however, but it attaches same as a medium.

The side bags in the images are hydration bladder carriers.
Lots of folks manufacture these and they are all basically
the same in how they attach. There are 4 Molle straps that
will go to the upper and lower attachnent loops on the sides of the Alice. It is almost as if they were designed for
the Alice. They hold gobs of gear. I use these on extended
trips into the desert to carry water. Any tactical gear web
site will have these.

Last edited by vondoozit; 03-10-2009 at 10:19 PM..
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Old 03-10-2009, 10:24 PM
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I prefer a Large size ALICE pack, that way i can carry alot more stuff should i need to, and have room to stuff it all in and run out the door. my pack was free, a Military surplus store owner guy went ahead and gave it to me, one hell of a deal.
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Old 03-11-2009, 01:50 AM
charlieb charlieb is offline
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Finally a solution to the pitfall of the Alice system.--the frame.
Very nice! --and proven as well by your extensive trekking.--that's important.
Thanks so much for this post!!
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Old 03-11-2009, 06:20 AM
whuddafugger whuddafugger is offline
 
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Very cool....that's a nice setup. I recently started using a frame with my medium ALICE pack and it makes a HUGE difference.

BTW...I read somewhere that ALICE packs were designed specifically for people who are 70 inches tall (or 5' 10"). I'm 5' 8" and the frame fits just right. (Read it here, actually.) Might explain why those who are much taller or shorter don't find these packs to be very comfortable.
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Old 03-11-2009, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vondoozit View Post
A large Alice pack will work equally well since both the Medium
and large versions use the same military frame. The large
is 2" taller however, but it attaches same as a medium.

The side bags in the images are hydration bladder carriers.
Lots of folks manufacture these and they are all basically
the same in how they attach. There are 4 Molle straps that
will go to the upper and lower attachnent loops on the sides of the Alice. It is almost as if they were designed for
the Alice. They hold gobs of gear. I use these on extended
trips into the desert to carry water. Any tactical gear web
site will have these.
Thanks!

I like the way you attached them. How do you run you tube? Do oyu go up from thr bottom or from the top?
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Old 03-11-2009, 07:17 AM
OLDWarrior64 OLDWarrior64 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlieb View Post
Finally a solution to the pitfall of the Alice system.--the frame.
Very nice! --and proven as well by your extensive trekking.--that's important.
Thanks so much for this post!!
I agree the frame was a major problem with the ALICE system, I must have went thru a dozen frames during my service. Always seemed to pop the rivet on top or the middle flat strip would break.
I too would prefer the large pack soley based on the volume of gear you can haul. The one drawback to the large pack is that it expands out and away from the body, throwing the center of gravity away from your back. Takes a bit more careful packing to try and minimize this. Thus the 'rucksack lean'.
Good solution with the civvy frame looks good
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Old 03-11-2009, 02:16 PM
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Excellent. I am always looking for ways to improve my Alice pack and other systems. I have the Molle II system, but just repacked my gear into my Alice, and I like the idea of having the MSS carrier on the Alice. I have the MSS and carrier on my Molle II system.

How did you attach it to the new frame? And did the pack or frame require any modifications to attach the pack?
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Old 03-11-2009, 05:17 PM
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Hello guys new to the forum.

Very interesting; I too have been experimenting with alice rucks and frames. This is a system I started developing over five years ago. When I began using the alice in the Tenn state guard. I became very aggressive on ways to improve it. This ALICE/MOLLE hybrid I call the Hellcat. I posted a how too assembly guide on a couple of forums at ar15.com a couple of months ago. Been using this configuration now for five years with absolutely no failures; and cost me all of $35 each. Components can easily be had for around $50 today. Parts are:

Medium alice ruck
ALICE frame
MOLLE shoulder straps
MOLLE Gen II moulded kidney belt
MOLLE sleep system carrier







The next two pics are of a pack I made for a friend of mine using a large ALICE ruck.





The beauty of using the MOLLE shoulder straps( suspension) is you can adjust for torso length which was impossible using the alice suspension; and hit and miss with civilian suspensions. I have built Hellcats for all three of my sons and my wife as well. Here is the link to my "how too" on ar15.com.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.htm...=620597&page=1

If there is an appropriate section on the boards I'll be glad to post my how too here as well.

BTW I am currently working on hybrids using civilian frames(looks like someone beat me too it) and MOLLE Gen II-IV and the new MOLLE airborne assault frames. They all seem to work exceptionally well. Sorry for my first post being so long.....just happens to be something I'm a bit passionate about.

Last edited by Enforcer; 03-11-2009 at 05:45 PM..
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Old 03-11-2009, 06:18 PM
Enforcer Enforcer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlieb View Post
Finally a solution to the pitfall of the Alice system.--the frame.
Very nice! --and proven as well by your extensive trekking.--that's important.
Thanks so much for this post!!
The frame has never been the pitfall of the alice system. That legacy falls squarely on the "shoulders of the "suspension. Unfortunately aftermarket enhancements never addressed it completely. Just added more padding to a lacking suspension system. The MOLLE addresses it in a very efficient and now inexpensive manner. This of course was by design. The MOLLE systems were meant to have a large degree of compatibility with ALICE. Most Hybrids initially had ALICE components being attached to the MOLLE system. The fact that the MOLLE pack system was introduced during a war effort; the ALICE/MOLLE hybrid was never completely explored due to the demands of deployment( availability and expediency). I'm not sure that the DOD envisioned the MOLLE suspension ever being used on the ALICE frame( I believe their intention was the former), but the unintended consequenses of their compatibility design has now made MOLLE hybrids a reality. And that is good for us

Last edited by Enforcer; 03-12-2009 at 04:47 AM.. Reason: clarity; sentence structure
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Old 03-11-2009, 06:38 PM
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From the top.
BUT-
I am am experimenting with different methods
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Old 03-11-2009, 06:40 PM
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You are exactly right about center of gravity on the large Alice.
The pack can be rigged on a larger frame so as to pull it against
the frame, thus better CG.
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Old 03-11-2009, 06:45 PM
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Enforcer, Nice looking rigs.
I like the the molle straps and pads.
For some reason around my area we can get MOLLE packs and bags
but have difficulty finding straps and pads.
I happy to see that others are taking a similar approach.
Thanks
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Old 03-11-2009, 07:00 PM
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For me the only problem with the alice pack i've had was the shoulder straps and belt, not padded enough and very uncomfortable, i plan to upgrade them with tactical tailor upgraded straps.
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Old 03-11-2009, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vondoozit View Post
Enforcer, Nice looking rigs.
I like the the molle straps and pads.
For some reason around my area we can get MOLLE packs and bags
but have difficulty finding straps and pads.
I happy to see that others are taking a similar approach.
Thanks
Thanks for the compliment; I like what you did with the cabelas frame, I believe it is a "made by" kelty external frame. I can't get the MOLLE components locally either; I purchase most of what I need on ebay and a few internet suppliers. I have put together several group purchases for my sons cubscout pack over the last several years and hopefully will be doing the same for my oldest sons BSA troop. Well over a hundred all total. I have dissassembled/ and assembled more alice packs than I care to think about counting my time in the TNSG. I personally believe that the key to getting the alice to work for you is proper assembly, and understanding it's strengths and weaknesses. That is particularly true with hybrid rucks. It will only be as good as the person putting it together.

Keep working on those mods; I've been doing it for many years; and the satisfaction that comes from developing a system that works for not only you, but others as well, can be very rewarding.
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Old 03-11-2009, 08:47 PM
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Default For CharlieB

Here are the attachment photos.
Notice that I have cut down the frame level with the second crossbar.
If you attach a large Alice you have the option of cutting
to the first crossbar (the top bar) since the large is 2"
taller. That way there is still room under the pack for your
sleeping gear.
Be sure and check out Enforcer's excellent post.
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Old 05-31-2009, 02:34 PM
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Hi all, nice pic, but would you might to explain more in detail how you attach the sleeping bag carrier onto the frame properly?
Some pic about that would be great.
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