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Old 06-07-2015, 03:27 PM
DontKnowWhatI'mDoing DontKnowWhatI'mDoing is offline
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Default My .308/.30-06 Dilemma



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So first off, I have to thank you guys on some awesome suggestions in the past for firearms. My buddy's PAL arrived a few days ago and on suggestions from here, he got a Ruger American Rimfire in .22LR . Awesome gun, shot it a ton yesterday and it was a great time. My PAL is about to arrive, and I know what I'm buying first; an SKS in a laminate stock, and then a Ruger 10/22, also based on your suggestions.

But I know that I like the feel of a bolt action, but I don't know what to get! Also, because I'm in Canada, the availability of the Norinco M305 (M14S to some folks) is another compounding factor in full-sized rifle purchasing. I like the feel and cost of a Ruger American, and because I live in Alberta, was thinking about getting it in .30-06 for possible moose/elk hunting excursions. But then again, if I got the American in .308, it sharing ammo with a M305 could be really, really beneficial in the future.

I know there's the long/short action pros/cons to consider, there's the availability of ammo/price, and all sorts of fun stuff to consider, and I was thinking what would you guys do in my shoes?

I know the .308 v. .30-06 has been debated, but was wondering what you guys would think for my situation as a newbie? Get acquainted with one caliber (.308) well across a few rifles, or specialize?

Thanks again for being awesome!
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Old 06-07-2015, 04:17 PM
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American Chestnut American Chestnut is offline
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.308 Its near enough to a 30-06 and there are options in semi-auto rifles and a more modern source of surplus ammo.

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Old 06-07-2015, 04:56 PM
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If you owned the .308 you would have greater options for purchasing other rifles in the future. You could buy anything from a SOCOM 16 to a VEPR ... but not in .06.
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Old 06-07-2015, 05:00 PM
Enzo Lupara Enzo Lupara is offline
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I've always thought that cartridge debates were funny myself but as long as you have a suitable firearm in a cartridge sufficient for the job and you can do your part you should be in good shape.

Whatever you decide to go with I hope you have a lot of fun and success.
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Old 06-07-2015, 05:14 PM
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This is something I went through a few years back. 30 06 is an awesome, powerful round, and I had three rifles that used it. Ammo had gotten harder to find though, and more expensive when I did find it. .308 was everywhere, and at a significant savings.

I finally bit the bullet, so to speak, and went to the .308. I currently own 2 .308 bolt guns, and a semi-auto as well. There are some strong .308 rounds out there that match 30 06 very well, and surplus is readily available. Commercial 30 06 seems to run only about .30 a round more than .308, but it's not as available as it used to be. Your mileage may vary. 300 Win Mag is more common around here than 30 06.

Because there are so many different loads, and bullet weights available I'm sure you will find a rifle, and load combination that works for your type of hunting. There are also a lot of rifles available to shoot it. In the hotter loads, and heavier bullets there's a nice drop in recoil too. That makes a difference at my age.
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Old 06-07-2015, 05:27 PM
teenahlake teenahlake is offline
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Go with the 30-06, many places require it for heavy game"bison", just gives more options
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Old 06-07-2015, 05:52 PM
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This year I took a bison,with a bow. Last year with a 25-06 (Hornady Superformance SST is awesome!). It's all about shot placement. Many more options with a 308.
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Old 06-07-2015, 06:28 PM
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For big game you want mass, and 30-06 or 7.62x54R are better at throwing mass.

Also, if you shoot 30-06 for a few years and then pick up a .308 you'll be amazed and delighted at the reduced recoil ;-)
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Old 06-07-2015, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DontKnowWhatI'mDoing View Post
So first off, I have to thank you guys on some awesome suggestions in the past for firearms. My buddy's PAL arrived a few days ago and on suggestions from here, he got a Ruger American Rimfire in .22LR . Awesome gun, shot it a ton yesterday and it was a great time. My PAL is about to arrive, and I know what I'm buying first; an SKS in a laminate stock, and then a Ruger 10/22, also based on your suggestions.

But I know that I like the feel of a bolt action, but I don't know what to get! Also, because I'm in Canada, the availability of the Norinco M305 (M14S to some folks) is another compounding factor in full-sized rifle purchasing. I like the feel and cost of a Ruger American, and because I live in Alberta, was thinking about getting it in .30-06 for possible moose/elk hunting excursions. But then again, if I got the American in .308, it sharing ammo with a M305 could be really, really beneficial in the future.

I know there's the long/short action pros/cons to consider, there's the availability of ammo/price, and all sorts of fun stuff to consider, and I was thinking what would you guys do in my shoes?

I know the .308 v. .30-06 has been debated, but was wondering what you guys would think for my situation as a newbie? Get acquainted with one caliber (.308) well across a few rifles, or specialize?

Thanks again for being awesome!
I suggest getting aquainted with one cartridge using one rifle for starters. An M305 is a great place to start for a centerfire.

I could get along just fine with only an M14S tanker and a 1022. Dont need a pile of specialty rifles to hunt with anywhere on this side ofthe planet.

My M14S Tanker has over 17k rds thru it so far , and I have hunted with it in several states including Alaska. A buddy of mine uses his M305 to hunt musk ox and polar bear above the artic circle in Canada. Also moose and brown bear.

I have also taken bison at over 200 yards with mine.

There isnt a critter native to North America that I couldn't take using this rifle, my LRB M14SA Tanker, or M1AA1. Mine has been in conditions where other rifles litterly froze up and had to be thawed out. Putting a boot to the oprod handle was all that was needed to get mine runnin again.
If your interested, I have alot of research and first hand experience with mine in the field. Feel free to ask.

Below pic is moose taken at 212 yards with one 168gr ttsx fired from the M14S.
Elk at 166 yards using M14S via one 165gr sierra game king.
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Old 06-07-2015, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DontKnowWhatI'mDoing View Post
So first off, I have to thank you guys on some awesome suggestions in the past for firearms. My buddy's PAL arrived a few days ago and on suggestions from here, he got a Ruger American Rimfire in .22LR . Awesome gun, shot it a ton yesterday and it was a great time. My PAL is about to arrive, and I know what I'm buying first; an SKS in a laminate stock, and then a Ruger 10/22, also based on your suggestions.

But I know that I like the feel of a bolt action, but I don't know what to get! Also, because I'm in Canada, the availability of the Norinco M305 (M14S to some folks) is another compounding factor in full-sized rifle purchasing. I like the feel and cost of a Ruger American, and because I live in Alberta, was thinking about getting it in .30-06 for possible moose/elk hunting excursions. But then again, if I got the American in .308, it sharing ammo with a M305 could be really, really beneficial in the future.

I know there's the long/short action pros/cons to consider, there's the availability of ammo/price, and all sorts of fun stuff to consider, and I was thinking what would you guys do in my shoes?

I know the .308 v. .30-06 has been debated, but was wondering what you guys would think for my situation as a newbie? Get acquainted with one caliber (.308) well across a few rifles, or specialize?

Thanks again for being awesome!
308 and 3006 are two very common calibers. The 308 is more of a multi role caliber, while the 30-06 (except for the Garand) is typically better suited for big game hunting. There is no wrong answer here.

If you plan to hunt primarily, the 30-06 is simply better at everything. But so is the 270 win, 7 Rem, and the 338 win.

If you also plan to buy a modern magazine fed semi auto in the same caliber, the 308 is a better option. Another option here is the 7-08 Rem, 6.8 Rem and the 7.62 x 39.

Another approach would be to buy a battery if hunting and combat rifles and consider these two calibers as part of the mix.
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Old 06-07-2015, 08:27 PM
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If you reload and have an interest in long range shooting, get a 30-06. You see, most factory 30-06 loads are similar to factory .308 loads. Thus .308 is usually a better factory round as it is lighter.

However, if you reload, the 30-06 can do much more. You can send 190gr and heavier bullets to higher velocities than in .308. It might give you about 2-300 more yards of supersonic range. You can get close to .300 win mag performance, but with longer barrel life. This probably doesn't matter for you, but long range shooters care about that extra little bit of performance. However, it seems that only old school guys are using 30-06 as a dedicated long range cartridge.
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Old 06-07-2015, 09:37 PM
Marlin 45 carbine Marlin 45 carbine is offline
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Ditto tubist hunting and long range the '06 is likely better choice . I've never taken game with . (Yet) but have been surprised at groups shooting 200 gr tbsp Sierra. May be not ideal choice for biggest bears but good placement is King. And 125 gr will reach antelope and sheep. Those . I have taken. One shot DRT.
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Old 06-07-2015, 10:59 PM
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For either rifle caliber, it you want to shoot heavier or longer bullets get a rifling twist that is 1 turn in 10 inches. Many .308s and today some 30-06s are using 1 in 12 which is not so good for the longer and heavier hunting and target bullets. You said moose which is a big animal and requires good penetration to get optimum results.
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Old 06-08-2015, 07:32 PM
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from the YT hunting synopsis

28 Minimum Firearm Requirements for Hunting Wood Bison

A centre fire rifle, .30 calibre or larger, with minimum 180 grain bullets (premium bullets strongly recommended) and minimum 2800 ft/lbs energy at the muzzle. (A .30-06 calibre is the baseline rifle.)
OR


A black powder rifle, .50 calibre or larger, firing an elongated bullet with a
minimum 90 grain charge and minimum 2800 ft/lbs energy at the muzzle.
OR
A black powder rifle, .54 calibre or larger, firing a round ball with a minimum 120 grain charge and minimum 2800 ft/lbs energy at the muzzle. (This option, while legal, is not recommended.)

Note: Hunters using a black powder rifle must have a centre fire rifle accessible as back up.

Bows may not be used to hunt bison


from the nwt

Equipment Standards
There are new or revised minimum ammunition and equipment stand
ards for licenced big game hunters:

At least .30 calibre ammunition to hunt wood bison.

At least .222 calibre ammunition to hunt wolf and wolverine in all areas of the NWT.

Polar bear standards remain the same with a minimum requirement of 2,800 joules of energy at the muzzle.

At least .243 calibre ammunition to hunt all other types of big game.

Bear standards for crossbow use require a draw weight of at least 68 kg at 700 mm, a bolt weight of at least 16.2 g,
and at least a 2.2 cm diameter cutting broadhead.

If your only getting one rifle, go with the 30-06
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Old 06-08-2015, 08:00 PM
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BUT if your getting two rifles, make both .308 Winchester....

Quote:
Originally Posted by teenahlake View Post
If your only getting one rifle, go with the 30-06
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Old 06-09-2015, 12:33 PM
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I will echo what Tubist said.
The 3006 and the 308 FACTORY loads are very similar. The 308 is loaded to a higher pressure. The 3006 is a lower pressure cartridge to begin with, and to prevent law suits sometimes even lower. You never know if someone is going to try shooting their 100+ year old rifle.
- I brought a BLR in 308 to moose camp one year. Everyone else had a 3006. I started hearing how i didn't have enough gun. We are all shooting 180 gr bullets.
I went to the truck and set up my chrono, challenged everyone to take a few shots.
My BLR shot 100 fps faster than the two 740 carbines and was equally as fast as the lone 7400 rifle.

Get the 308, pick one good bullet weight and kill everything with it. I haven't seen a good 165 gr from a 308 bounce off a moose yet.
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Old 06-09-2015, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motodoc43 View Post
Many more options with a 308.
Not in hunting, but I'll concede in the number of other platforms that use it.
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Old 06-09-2015, 04:34 PM
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I am a 30-06 man myself. But then again, that is why I designed my own semi 30-06 rifle.
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Old 06-09-2015, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taxed in Maine View Post
I will echo what Tubist said.
The 3006 and the 308 FACTORY loads are very similar. The 308 is loaded to a higher pressure. The 3006 is a lower pressure cartridge to begin with, and to prevent law suits sometimes even lower. You never know if someone is going to try shooting their 100+ year old rifle.
- I brought a BLR in 308 to moose camp one year. Everyone else had a 3006. I started hearing how i didn't have enough gun. We are all shooting 180 gr bullets.
I went to the truck and set up my chrono, challenged everyone to take a few shots.
My BLR shot 100 fps faster than the two 740 carbines and was equally as fast as the lone 7400 rifle.

Get the 308, pick one good bullet weight and kill everything with it. I haven't seen a good 165 gr from a 308 bounce off a moose yet.
At 212 yards, one 168gr ttsx launched from a 308 case will go right thru a moose and leave an exit the far side. Same results with 165gr sierra game kings and at around the same distance. ( Both were factory loads) Black Hills and Federal Premium.

The elk pictured earlier also had the bullet exit the far side. ( From my experience, elk are a tougher critter than moose).

My hunting rifle ( M14S tanker) shoots both well, and I have decided to stick with the ttsx offering for hunting large game. ( I prefer the most accurate load through a specific rifle vs the idea that the bigger 180gr and up bullets are somehow magically better.) It wont make a dead moose, bison, elk, or bear any more dead....lol

At 200 yards the factory BH 168gr TTSX ( BC= .51) produces 2000 ft/lbs of energy, and is moving at 2315fps when fired out of my rifle. ( Short of an uparmored critter, there is no need for me to shoot them with anything bigger. Dead is dead...lol
Typical exit wounds are close to twice the size of the entrance wound, and internal damage along the bullets path through the body is devastating to say the least.
In short....... It is my big game cartridge, and will do its job provided I place it correctly through the animal.

My one exception to this rule is using 168gr AE OTM if hunting medium sized game at longer ranges.

A few examples below using this load. ( All below were taken at over 500 yards)
M14S, Arms18 mount, SWFA 10x SS scope, and my LRF.


11B
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Old 06-09-2015, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MajMarine View Post
Not in hunting, but I'll concede in the number of other platforms that use it.
Any rifle chambered in 308 can be used for hunting
I have a buddy who lives in Canada, and he hunts polar bear , musk ox, bison, grizzly, and moose with his M305 ( Norinco M14)
Another who lives in Alaska, and hunts grizzly and moose with his Scar17 via 168gr ttsx factory loads as well as his reloads using same bullet.
Just as archery can be used to hunt bison. ( Pics are all over the net, too include wood bison.)
11B
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