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View Poll Results: Is a gun or a bunker better?
Is a gun best? 45 22.28%
Is a bunker best? 15 7.43%
Are both very good to own or even work to acquire? 146 72.28%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 202. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-08-2013, 10:21 PM
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I lost track. Have you fully recovered all of your things?

All of that over a .22 shell?
Court case imminent on the boomstick, all the rest of my stuff was returned.
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Old 02-09-2013, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by America's Patriot View Post
Thanks for all of the replies so far everyone, which I think are only guys but maybe this kind of thread about guns and bunkers only or mainly appeals to guys?

And I will eventually respond and give my thoughts possibly to all of the posts but I will begin with the least helpful post which I am quoting.

First of all I am not sure what is the purpose of showing a laughing dog? I feel like shooting that dog though.

And are you laughing at this thread or mainly the bunker shooting video or exactly What? I know that possibly the scene showing the periscope getting shot up might be somewhat funny but this bunker shooting vid and the question about are guns or bunkers more important is Not supposed to be funny or something to Laugh at!

Any helpful constructive criticism is welcome though...
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Old 02-09-2013, 07:25 AM
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I'm not sure what that post was about Mike. It would have been easier to move on if he didn't care for the thread.

WR. Why is a court case imminent? The silly .22 shell?
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Old 02-09-2013, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by REM View Post
I'm not sure what that post was about Mike. It would have been easier to move on if he didn't care for the thread.

WR. Why is a court case imminent? The silly .22 shell?
I must answer this sooner than later.

And even if someone does not like a thread, especially mine, then I would like to know Why and what I could do to improve the thread or bunker etc. And improving the bunker / underground cabin - shelter does not include spending thousands or even hundreds of more dollars.

And WR has to go to Crown Court - in the police state on Prison Island aka England. I think his court date is in March and has to persuade a judge who will probably wear a white wig but anyway persuade a judge on Why he Needs his 12 gauge shotgun which WR calls a boomstick. It is a $1,000 plus Benelli shotgun which the police state might destroy!!
Hope the USA does not get like so many other police state countries but we should be prepared for that also!!

Here is the full story on WR's adventure - getting arrested etc. in the police state > https://www.survivalistboards.com/sho...d.php?t=256172
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Old 02-09-2013, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean_6399 View Post
I've got a fantasy of a kind of a spread like Bag End from The Hobbit. Except my Bag End would have guns and escape tunnels and hydroelectric power generation.

Living above ground is overrated.

Here are plans of Bag End to get you started.

I plan to build my newest cabin into my Rocky Mountain hillside which will be at least 9,500 feet in elevation. I might build the new partially underground cabin a Little bit similar to Bag End but I likely will not have round doors. Maybe a round window if I find another porthole like I made in the bunker. And I plan to have 3 rooms. A living / sleeping area, kitchen / bath and a storage area for water, food etc. in the back. And someday I could even dig 10 or 100 feet into the mountainside behind the cabin.

Plans I found of Bag End >



And I have thought living above ground is also over rated, especially after I read Mike Oehler's book: "The $50 and Up Underground House Book" and after I worked for him a couple months in the late spring of 1986.

Here are a Few advantages to having a Bunker some even call it an Underground house >

"We believe that when designed and built
properly on suitable sites, Post/Shoring/
Polyethylene, or PSP, underground dwellings
are the finest that can be constructed.
They have 23 distinct advantages over conventional
structures. These are:

1. NO FOUNDATION. - except the earth.
2. LESS BUILDING MATERIAL. - using lumber or logs.
3. LESS LABOR.
4. MOST AESTHETICALLY PLEASING.
5. LESS TAX.
6. WARM IN WINTER.
7. COOL IN SUMMER.
8. BETTER VIEW. - especially if built on a hillside.
9. BUILT-IN GREENHOUSE.
10. ECOLOGICALLY SOUND.
11. INCREASED YARD SPACE.
12. FALLOUT SHELTER.
13. CUTS ATMOSPHERIC RADIATION.
14. DEFENSIBLE.
15. CONCEALMENT.
16. CLOSER TO SOURCE OF WATER.
17. RELATIVELY FIREPROOF.
18. PIPES NEVER FREEZE.
19. SUPERIOR FLOORING.
20. CAN BE BUILT BY ANYONE.
21. WEATHERPROOF. - extremely good tornado, blizzard and storm protection...
22. LESS MAINTENANCE.
23. SOUNDPROOF."

The previous quote is from Mike Oehler's "The $50 and Up Underground House Book" page 10

Link to some pics of Mike Oehler's > http://www.undergroundhousing.com/structures.html
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Old 02-09-2013, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REM View Post
I'm not sure what that post was about Mike. It would have been easier to move on if he didn't care for the thread.

WR. Why is a court case imminent? The silly .22 shell?
Because in the serf-like state of the UK a cop who is in charge of issuing shotgun certificates can revoke them if he doesn't like the guy who has them.
When this individual found out I'd been arrested at the airport, despite being released without charge, he still thought it would be a good idea to revoke my shotgun certificate. Cops don't like citizens have guns period in the UK. They want their 'gang' to have them and no-one else.

Anyway. When they do this you can do one of two things: Lie down and take it like a slave up the a$$ or stand like a man and appeal it in the crown court.

I chose the latter, hence the court case.
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mtnman Mike View Post
I don't know anyone, who is sane anyway, who would mess with a gun owner, especially a gun owner with a bunker. Of course a criminal who kills someone and kidnaps a child as the latest guy did in Alabama deserves to be taken out and even have his bunker destroyed. Not sure if his was a true bunker. I would have to see pics of that. If anyone has pics of that guys bunker in Alabama they would be interesting to see.

I think a true bunker has portholes to look and even shoot out of if necessary. There are what is called storage bunkers which don't have anyway to look out and also fallout / bomb / storm shelters which are also not very defendable since you cannot look or shoot out.
The only pictures I can find are of the area around the bunker, not in it. I did see on the news a computer generated diagram which showed a pvc pipe, I assume for ventilation, and a trapdoor and ladder for access. Other than that it's just an underground room. The area around it was flat so I don't imagine he had any portholes or gunports.
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Old 02-09-2013, 06:33 PM
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death trap.

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Old 02-09-2013, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by MR_SLOW View Post
death trap.
I would wonder what you are talking about except you have called my bunker that in another thread or two.
You and some others wish simply to anger me and I won't go there or fall into your trap. WR saw at least once, last summer, the mountain man rage which he could tell about if he wished...

But I do Not want to argue. You think my bunker is a death trap - which it is really the opposite of that. And I think your house in or near Chitcago is a potential death trap. To each their own. Maybe someday we will find out!!

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Old 02-10-2013, 03:17 AM
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Originally Posted by MR_SLOW View Post
death trap.
What does that make your road-side house then?
You know the one you showed everyone the pictures of?

Your place looks like a bullet magnet to me, thin walls, big windows, loads of cover for bad guys to sneak up on your place from the roadside, all those juicy preps etc.

Mega-death trap is what your place says to me.

Wouldn't go there if you paid me.

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Old 02-10-2013, 05:02 AM
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For me, the main cost would be the land. I need to get my hands on some rural property first.
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Old 02-10-2013, 05:26 AM
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Thought y'all did a good job. I enjoyed the Video.

Don't let the haters get to you, I remember your thread on building it and I know you put some hard work into it.

I am curios to see how everyone else s bunkers are coming along!(The guys that want to laugh)
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Old 02-10-2013, 11:09 AM
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My homes were not bought for shtf. No one will ever try firing on my homes in California ,WI. or in Illinois.The SHTF where people are raiding mountain retreats will never happen.People like you give the Prepping community a bad name with your crazy thought of some type of civil war happening or fighting city folks.

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Old 02-10-2013, 06:29 PM
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A casual look over police reports make your statement pure fantasy. Do a simple gunshots in houses search and educate yourself that no SHTF is needed for idiots shooting at houses.

I'm glad I live far from people that claim to be smart and superior!

Red

Quote:
Originally Posted by MR_SLOW View Post
My homes were not bought for shtf .No one will ever try firing on my homes in California ,WI. or in Illinois.The SHTF where people are raiding mountain retreats will never happen.People like you give the Prepping community a bad name with your crazy thought of some type of civil war happening or fighting city folks.

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Old 02-10-2013, 07:30 PM
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"Fixed fortifications are a monument to the stupidity of man." -Gen Patton

In my opinion a bunker, in the fighting sense, is pointless. If I had the money, believe me I would build a bunker, but you would never be able to tell it was there and the last thing I would try to do is fight in it. They are death traps. Maybe against some thugs it might work as a good defensive position, but a few highly motivated men who are relatively smart, who are patient, and maybe with the help of some molotov cocktails can defeat many of the doomsday bunkers I've seen.

A house is not a death trap by the way, for the simple fact you can easily leave it, and not be forced into a corner underground, unless one has a fancy escape hatch or something.

The ideal bunker, I would think, is the one that can never been seen. If you want to fantasize about having a good ole firefight, that's great, but it's not practical. You don't crush your enemy by sitting where the enemy knows and expects you to be.
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Old 02-10-2013, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tap Water View Post
"Fixed fortifications are a monument to the stupidity of man." -Gen Patton

In my opinion a bunker, in the fighting sense, is pointless. If I had the money, believe me I would build a bunker, but you would never be able to tell it was there and the last thing I would try to do is fight in it. They are death traps. Maybe against some thugs it might work as a good defensive position, but a few highly motivated men who are relatively smart, who are patient, and maybe with the help of some molotov cocktails can defeat many of the doomsday bunkers I've seen.

A house is not a death trap by the way, for the simple fact you can easily leave it, and not be forced into a corner underground, unless one has a fancy escape hatch or something.

The ideal bunker, I would think, is the one that can never been seen. If you want to fantasize about having a good ole firefight, that's great, but it's not practical. You don't crush your enemy by sitting where the enemy knows and expects you to be.
who needs to attack it stop up the air vents they will die without knowing it from CO2


I thing the best use of such a structure is as a root cellar being able to keep produce much longer than you could otherwise able to be secured and if needed to ride out a bad storm you have a emergency shelter
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Old 02-10-2013, 11:06 PM
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You guys need to stop tearing mike down. most of the ones saying it all mall ninjas. I personally inspected mikes bunker and surrounding area and i would say out of every place i ever witnessed it had the biggest chance of surviving almost anything! have you seen the dam snow up there? it crushed his effing A frame shed Mike told me about some dumbass tourists that died in a snowstorm because they got stuck up there around his property! There are people that live around him but most dont take living up there seriously except for the guy i met filling up his water tank from the spring.

Now i have to say the bunker isnt complete yet in my opinion.. it doesnt have a seal on it making it easy for animals and other problems to come in. If it were hermetically sealed somehow and that plexiglass part replaced with more concrete and maybe a special sun porthole thing I have seen in some houses which makes the sun light up the inside of a home through a maginfier. And probably some wiring to some lights and alternative heat besides wood in there ( hook the solar to the inside of the bunker) then it would be perfect. he has plenty of wood water , space and resources just sitting there on the place.

Once you make that cabin ( hopefully ill make it this summer to help) it will be a bit more cozy than the darker colder confines of the bunker. Also i couldnt help but notice alot of stuff could be salvaged from the ruins of the broken shed right on and beside the bunker. i tried to salvage what i could but i was worried about being cut up by some of the rusty or broken stuff. I highly reccomend getting everyone that comes up to dig that out, get the good stuff and burn the bad in a big bonfire so the pests and animals etc have nothing to live in and feed off of. I will bring more water in a big container if i can and some more food to share


And movies to trade ya of course :P I hope you liked what i gave ya. But seriously i dont wanna make it seem like im controlling but I have seen great places turn to ruins because of stuff being smushed by snow then the animals and nature mess it up.

I would happily help you make a new storage facility and maybe move that gate further back so its not obvious someone lives there.

That and just fix up and make it more efficient ( like the toilet :P ) we might need to move that somewhere closer to the road thats not near the water supply.








all in all mike has made excellent use of his property and free supplies and hopefully we can make it a place to learn and promote self sufficiency and survival.
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Old 02-11-2013, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by RedWoods View Post
A casual look over police reports make your statement pure fantasy. Do a simple gunshots in houses search and educate yourself that no SHTF is needed for idiots shooting at houses.

I'm glad I live far from people that claim to be smart and superior!

Red
Yep MS is the nugget of the thread alright. I think he should remember what this forum is called before coming all high-and-mighty with us.

Patton's quote isn't relevant for a survivalist / prepper bunker. They aren't orientated to take on the national guard's arsenal but other threats like disasters / crazies (a few on here) / societal collapse etc.
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Old 02-11-2013, 07:22 PM
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I was almost certain that at least some would post about bunkers and try to tell how bad and stupid they are. Tell how bad bunkers and such are to all kinds of military in past history, the N. Vietnamese with their tunnels etc. and others.

But actually my bunker, which I think of and I usually call an underground cabin is mainly a storm / tornado / fire / cold weather shelter. Also a Very strong secure storage area. Most on the net prefer to call it a bunker and so WR and I made the bunker shooting video as shown in the first couple posts of this thread. It Might never be needed as a bullet, bomb and molotov cocktail proof shelter / bunker but we showed in the videos how it Might hold up if attacked!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MR_SLOW View Post
My homes were not bought for shtf.No one will ever try firing on my homes in California ,WI. or in Illinois.The SHTF where people are raiding mountain retreats will never happen.People like you give the Prepping community a bad name with your crazy thought of some type of civil war happening or fighting city folks.
A wise person once said: "Never say Never!" and I agree.

I do not recall anywhere where WR or I said that a civil war would happen or us fighting city folks. Which is slightly possible but IF any attacked my remote mtn bunker it Might be the dozens of people who live within 20 miles or so of my mtn retreat. There is only one small town ( pop. 450 ) but many are old - retired and children and richer - dollarwise than I am so I truly doubt very many will attack.

The bunker shooting video was mainly made for fun - which many will or cannot understand. As they will or cannot understand why anyone would even shoot a gun for pleasure or fun such as at targets and with 30 or 50 round magazines.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWoods View Post
A casual look over police reports make your statement pure fantasy. Do a simple gunshots in houses search and educate yourself that no SHTF is needed for idiots shooting at houses.

Red
I remember even in my small city of Greeley, Colorado that there was an older lady shot to death by a stray bullet that pierced the wall of her house while she was sitting peacefully one night about 20 years ago.

And I have heard that more than one has been shot by stray bullets in a city when people are shooting in the air when celebrating....


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tap Water View Post
"Fixed fortifications are a monument to the stupidity of man." -Gen Patton

In my opinion a bunker, in the fighting sense, is pointless. If I had the money, believe me I would build a bunker, but you would never be able to tell it was there and the last thing I would try to do is fight in it. They are death traps. Maybe against some thugs it might work as a good defensive position, but a few highly motivated men who are relatively smart, who are patient, and maybe with the help of some molotov cocktails can defeat many of the doomsday bunkers I've seen.

A house is not a death trap by the way, for the simple fact you can easily leave it, and not be forced into a corner underground, unless one has a fancy escape hatch or something.

The ideal bunker, I would think, is the one that can never been seen. If you want to fantasize about having a good ole firefight, that's great, but it's not practical. You don't crush your enemy by sitting where the enemy knows and expects you to be.
A molotov cocktail, bullets and even grenades could not harm my bunker. I have tried and not Just as shown in the videos! And I could more easily leave my bunker since I could see the "enemy" coming from a mile or so away from on top of my 9,500 foot high mountainside, even from on top of my bunker. I can even look down into the N. Platte river valley where there is a state highway that runs through the middle of the valley and see If there is smoke, traffic, tanks or whatever!
I take most bunkers over any kind of house. Even an above ground concrete house / bunker which are very easily seen. Btw, many survivalist writers thought underground bunkers were what all well prepared survivalists should own or at Least know how to build. But I guess that was in the 1980's and so many are So much wiser now?!!

And IF the "enemy" could find my bunker and IF they could somehow over run it or IF it would look like there were more than a dozen raiders or soldiers then I could bug out of the bunker out of the back trap door - seen below.

Also IF the government etc. had nothing better to do than to raid my bunker pre or post SHTF then they would find they are wasting their time, $ and energy...

Also raiders would have attacked the couple dozen cabins that can easily be found long before they would even get near my mtn retreat. And I and hopefully any others with me would be ready for about any kind of raiders. The dirt road you saw in the video or pics would be closed with many trees cut down and blocking plus a few other ideas I have but will not tell right now, if ever on a public forum.
How about those toepoppers for instance. Some can look that up but that is just one out of many examples of some interesting things that could be all around the bunker IF there was a SHTF...

And my bunker - underground cabin - shelter is not seen in the winter and after I build and landscape more it will be much less likely to be seen. A neighbor or two, especially Randy, whom WR met, said that he and a couple of his friends never knew I had a bunker and they had driven on my private road for 20 years!
Randy never has asked to see my bunker and not sure if I will show it to him.

Here are a couple pics showing the back trap door for a "fancy escape hatch" although I do have at least 3 exits from the bunker and some of the camo but there is much much more than even this >

Close-up of concrete roof and stovepipe in early October >




Back trap door showing 3 foot thick rock and concrete roof. Took 250 eighty pound bags of concrete mix to make the concrete roof. >



What the top of the bunker - my underground shelter looks like most of the winter, even Nov. to early June >



Sorta good camo???


Quote:
Originally Posted by FarmerJohn View Post
who needs to attack it stop up the air vents they will die without knowing it from CO2

I thing the best use of such a structure is as a root cellar being able to keep produce much longer than you could otherwise able to be secured and if needed to ride out a bad storm you have a emergency shelter
And I mostly agree since I have ridden out more than one blizzard, bear attack at least once and down to 2 below zero in early Nov. After there is deep snow on top of the bunker then it is easier to keep warm since snow is a good insulator and camo and for getting water by melting snow.

And while most bunkers - bomb / fallout / storm shelters probably could have their air vents plugged up - mine cannot!

Mainly because the air vents are well camoflaged and the main air vent which is under the front steel door is Not easy to get to since there is a hallway leading up to that front door. After a SHTF the air vents will be even more camoflaged and the front door even more secure. And right now anyway I will Not tell Everything I plan to do If there is a SHTF or attackers!
One little thing I will tell is that IF anyone were to dare mess with the strong steel metal door that is locked and barred shut with a strong metal door, then they would find a surprise coming out of the air vent! All I will or can say on a popular public forum.

And Kroenen thanks for the good words. You did not see All of my bunker or even Everything I have up there. I know you did not get to the very back of my bunker - underground shelter, which is very interesting and hope you can go back there this next summer.
Even after spending all summer WR did not even see Everything on my mtn place. Maybe next summer.

And I will have to take your post apart Kroenen and try to clarify more, maybe in another day or two. As well as some others who have posted in this thread, I do wish to respond more.

But thanks to all who have posted. Even the few who have criticized and the 2 now, who have called a bunker a Death trap! Maybe we all shall see someday, how a house stands up to a molotov cocktail, bombs, or even a .22 bullet!!

Last edited by OLDWarrior64; 03-05-2013 at 04:00 PM..
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Good, seems like you got it all figured out. Best of luck to you
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