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Old 02-06-2012, 10:43 AM
janit0r janit0r is offline
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katadyn pocket. add a uv.
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Old 02-06-2012, 11:26 AM
jaketheripper jaketheripper is offline
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would charcoal/sand filter plus a UV thing work? Or would boiling still be necessary?
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Old 02-06-2012, 11:59 AM
Gath3r Gath3r is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullets~n~Beans View Post
Well, that would work to a point. BUT, what if you only had a light pack and no way to boil the water?
I am purely thinking on a SHTF bug-in situation here. Not a hike in the woods, or a weekend camp trip. I think the more you introduce "technology" into your long term filtering process for SHTF, your asking for trouble. By technology, I mean plastics, and levers, and rubber, and pump mechanism's, and such..

The Katadyn filters I think would be great for hiking, driving, or camping, but i would sure hate to drop it, or step on it. Why not use basic filtering methods that work? Sand and Charcoal. There has to be a reason why it is NEVER recomended on the forums that I visit. I am hoping someone can tell me why.

As far as, "no way to boil water". If you are "hunkered" down in a good location with your loved ones, and for an extented period of time you cannot boil water.. your in some deep trouble.

Again, I am fairly new when it comes to thinking about these situations, so I may very well be speaking out of my ass.
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Old 02-06-2012, 03:59 PM
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decisions, decisions.

Are you looking for a portable filter or one for home? That matters.

Your water source matters too.

If you are comparing Katadyn to Sawyer, I'd say Sawyer wins for weight, price, and US origin.

The Katadyn Pocket is the best for ruggedness and some models can treat chemical contamination.
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Old 02-06-2012, 05:16 PM
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I really don't think that backpacking filters and filters for home use are comparable.

As someone else noted, the pumping required in most backpacking filters can get old fast, and thats just when you are filling 2 or 3 canteens.

For home use, something like the Big Berky seems to be a much wiser way to go - you will be cooking (most likely) for more people, and you will need water on a much more consistent basis than when backpacking.

I've used the PUR backpacking filter and it worked well, but the filter clogged easily and needed to be scrubbed clean nearly daily - we were using it in Colorado.
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Old 02-06-2012, 05:58 PM
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Sawyer.

Actually, get several filters, always have a backup. I have a Sawyer .02 as a main filter and I'm going to get a couple of the cheap ($30-$40) Monolithic bucket filters to "pre-filter" before running thru the Sawyer. I figure the Monolithic ceramic filter will get out most of the larger particles and extend the life of the Sawyer. Goal is a couple of Sawyers and a couple Monolithics.
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Old 02-06-2012, 07:53 PM
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1st You need a portable pump filter. 500 gallon capacity

2nd I think the Berkley Filters seem to be the highest rated
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Old 02-06-2012, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clawhammer View Post
I know you're talking abouts FILTERS...but if your real concern is water quality...at <$100, the steripen will kill everything down to viruses with UV light

Only The Lightest, Ch 50: Ultralight Backpacking, How to Use the Steripen Adventurer Water Purifier - YouTube
What they probably prefer you not to know:
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Old 02-06-2012, 10:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clawhammer View Post
I know you're talking abouts FILTERS...but if your real concern is water quality...at <$100, the steripen will kill everything down to viruses with UV light
The Steripen like in the video requires lithium batteries to work for any amount of time.

During a long term situation, you would be better off with a steripen sidewinder.

As for a filter, any kind of gravity filter should do - I like the royal berkey.

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Old 02-07-2012, 12:17 AM
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My biggest problem with Berkey filters is there doesn't seem to be any actual lab-tested results for them. It's all hear-say and anecdote.

For portable/backpack use, I'm surprised no one has mentioned the MSR filters. I took a MiniWorks filter on my first Iraq deployment in 03 and it worked great. It survived a year of constant use and banging around with no problems, and I never had a problem with the water it filtered. (yes I realize this is anecdote, but at least it was used under real conditions. There are also actual test results for the MSR out there unlike other filters). They are also significantly cheaper than Katadyn.
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Old 02-07-2012, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kev View Post
During a long term situation, you would be better off with a steripen sidewinder.
Thank you. I didn't know they made a hand crank model.
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Old 02-07-2012, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gath3r View Post
I am purely thinking on a SHTF bug-in situation here. Not a hike in the woods, or a weekend camp trip. I think the more you introduce "technology" into your long term filtering process for SHTF, your asking for trouble. By technology, I mean plastics, and levers, and rubber, and pump mechanism's, and such..

The Katadyn filters I think would be great for hiking, driving, or camping, but i would sure hate to drop it, or step on it. Why not use basic filtering methods that work? Sand and Charcoal. There has to be a reason why it is NEVER recomended on the forums that I visit. I am hoping someone can tell me why.

As far as, "no way to boil water". If you are "hunkered" down in a good location with your loved ones, and for an extented period of time you cannot boil water.. your in some deep trouble.

Again, I am fairly new when it comes to thinking about these situations, so I may very well be speaking out of my ass.
I have put the Katadyn and MSR through hell and they both still pump very well. Granted I would never use it as a long term solution and really hate using it for 2 people backpacking. It is nice for the weight but pumping sucks after a couple bottles.

There is nothing wrong with using sand and charcoal. Most of those filters do not take much time to make.

For us it came down to ease. I can pour into the Berkey, shove it in the fridge, and call it a day. It is not heavy and it works awesome.

Where a couple gallon charcoal and sand setup is going to cause some weight concern and really does not gain me any benefit over what I have. Plus I know my filters are rated for 99.99% filter for bacteria.

Worst case for me I will boil water through one of multiple ways of making fire I have in the house or use some of hte bleach that is sitting around.

At the end of the day it boils down to what you are willing to assume risk wise and what you are willing to put the money into. There are few things I will invest heavily in but water safety is #1 on that list.
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Old 02-07-2012, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChapNelson View Post
I use Sawyer products, I really like the squeeze. No filter cartridge, chemicals or batteries to store. 3oz. including 3 bladders, tucks away nicely in the pack. Will screw into a standard bottle. Can be set up for volume with a bucket if needs be. I like things that don't require more things to keep them going, and are stupid simple to operate with the minimal number of moving parts.

As for Sawyer admitting they haven't tested to a million gallons ... can you visualize a million gallons? Give it a few years and they'll be able to verify. I work on a ship that in full operation will have over 5,000 people aboard, eating, drinking, showering, toilets, cleaning equipment, laundry personal and commercial, steam plants, generation, etc. Peak usage is 400,000 gallons a day. I have a sawyer per person and I anticipate they will last a generation or two.
First you need to understand the difference between a filter and a purifier. Second regarding the Sawyer million gallons. I'm sure it will if you are dealing with purified water. If your water is not pure don't count on a million gallons.
For those east of the Miss. river (and just about every where now) you should consider all open source water to be polluted, ie runoff (pesticides, herbicides, other chemicals depending on the industry in the area. Yes I know some of you know of springs ect. but if you leave that area or come off the mountain that steripen or cheap "filter" will not do the job you think it will. Granted there is no perfect do it all filter. Also those that do the most, also will clog the fastest, depending on the water. Bottom line, it always, always comes down to the water you plan to "filter" and/or "purify".

Whats the best? I can't tell you. I can tell you I have and use the First Need
portable water purifier. It's not the cheapest or lightest. I've used it with water from stagnant scumy ponds/watering holes for all the local wildlife, to the worse swamp water (everglades-which is known to carry runoff from farm fields) so far to no ill effect/health.
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Old 02-07-2012, 01:03 PM
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The SAwyer is in current use in 3rd. world countries. I own 3 for a total 0f $150.
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Old 02-07-2012, 01:50 PM
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Thanks for all your imput. I'm going to make a few sand and activated carbon pre-filters and will buy a couple of others. Great stuff gang...again many thanks.
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Old 02-07-2012, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by POPPALUV View Post
The SAwyer is in current use in 3rd. world countries. I own 3 for a total 0f $150.
I've had the purifier model that came in a bottle (SP-135) for several years. The only complaint would be that it takes quite a bit of pressure to prime (though my platypus bag can do it, although it seems it's about to burst in the process) and the fact that I can still hear water shaking around in it weeks after having used it.

My wife got me a Lifesaver Bottle a year ago and I'll run water through it within a year, so I get the full 5-year lifespan out of the cartridge.
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Old 02-07-2012, 06:53 PM
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the berkey system is nice but expensive,I just built one of these, I did get the ceramic filter in the video but plan on purchasing more and different types. I also have pvc tubing that I layer with coffee filters, a t shirt, activated charcoal. Both these systems require chlorine or bleach, but they are both cheap and effective. here is the you tube for the camp filter.
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Old 02-07-2012, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoOzone View Post
Katadyne has a filter which claims about 13,000 gallons (depending on the water quality), Berkeley has filters that many swear by (though they had problems, not sure if they have been solved) and now I recently read on here about Sawyer filters (with backflushing claim they can filter 1 million gallons...really? On their site they admit it's not been proven )

So what is BS and what is practical?
Considering how long it would take for a million gallons to drip through a sawyer, I'd say it will never be proven.
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Old 02-07-2012, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Sparks107 View Post
My vote is for the Sawyer filter, which I will be buying pretty soon.
The sawyer has one weak spot..The water filter...DO NOT LET IT FREEZE!! It will render it useless..
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Old 02-07-2012, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gath3r View Post
I am purely thinking on a SHTF bug-in situation here. Not a hike in the woods, or a weekend camp trip. I think the more you introduce "technology" into your long term filtering process for SHTF, your asking for trouble. By technology, I mean plastics, and levers, and rubber, and pump mechanism's, and such..
What you are talking about is a slow sand filter.

http://www.surferswithoutborders.org...nd_Filter.html

http://water.me.vccs.edu/concepts/filters.html

While I see how it could make water much safer than it started out, I think a good ceramic filter would give me a warm fuzzy feeling I could never get from a slow sand filter.
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