A FEMA Shelter BOB? - Page 6 - Survivalist Forum
Survivalist Forum

Advertise Here

Go Back   Survivalist Forum > >
Articles Classifieds Donations Gallery Groups Links Store Survival Files


Notices

Disaster Preparedness General Discussion Anything Disaster Preparedness or Survival Related

Advertise Here
Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
shelter drainage around the bottom of ths shelter hank2222 Nuclear, Biological and Chemical (NBC) Survival 10 09-29-2016 05:34 PM
FEMA Camp Weird Symbols In Ground Avon Park FEMA Camp CyberVyper Controversial News and Alternative Politics 98 06-03-2015 03:00 PM
What's FEMA up to now sandcrab General Discussion 1 03-24-2015 09:03 AM
Anyone actually build a FEMA shelter? Synical1 Disaster Preparedness General Discussion 3 03-16-2012 01:17 PM
Does FEMA Really help??? Tony From Da Bronx Controversial News and Alternative Politics 18 06-22-2011 05:56 PM
FEMA looking for 7M MRE's kartographer General Discussion 18 01-25-2011 05:33 PM
FEMA Is Not That Bad Pragmatist Disaster Preparedness General Discussion 49 10-16-2010 07:28 AM
Too many, too much? Does FEMA have a cap? Happygirl62 Manmade and Natural Disasters 5 05-04-2010 01:56 AM
FEMA does a BOB PSA! Skyjump136 Disaster Preparedness General Discussion 8 11-28-2009 08:48 AM
What going on with FEMA???? A-CONFEDERATE-K Controversial News and Alternative Politics 6 07-28-2009 01:46 PM

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-16-2016, 11:49 AM
TDFbound's Avatar
TDFbound TDFbound is offline
Average Joe
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 2,654
Thanks: 25,147
Thanked 2,318 Times in 1,185 Posts
Default



Advertise Here

Quote:
Originally Posted by onefortheroad View Post
Only go to the shelters as a last resort....and your right FEMA and Red Cross will not allow any type of weapon in their facilities.

During Katrina I had the opportunity to work closely with the American Red Cross and local law enforcement agencies to prepare an evacuation center for Katrina refugees, yes the government used the term refugees. Anyhow, this facility was to be used for overflow. There were like 3 other facilities in the state that had aready been up and operational for sometime, so the command information we were receiving was second hand account from the other refugee centers.

Let me tell you......the information we were receiving was very disturbing and shocking to say the least.
What sort of work do you do? I also live in WNC and am trying to figure out what to do with my recently obtained degree in Emergency & Disaster Management.
Quick reply to this message
Old 08-16-2016, 12:32 PM
juskom95's Avatar
juskom95 juskom95 is offline
Time to melt snowflakes!
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Kentucky
Age: 35
Posts: 30,164
Thanks: 65,855
Thanked 66,357 Times in 22,045 Posts
Awards Showcase
Outstanding Member 
Total Awards: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TDFbound View Post
What sort of work do you do? I also live in WNC and am trying to figure out what to do with my recently obtained degree in Emergency & Disaster Management.
What is your experience in managing disaster response? Degrees are nice, but in the end the plans of the 'Disaster Management' individuals generally fell woefully short.
Quick reply to this message
Old 08-16-2016, 01:35 PM
grandma's Avatar
grandma grandma is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Eastern Canada
Posts: 5,766
Thanks: 12,691
Thanked 7,925 Times in 3,335 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by juskom95 View Post
What is your experience in managing disaster response? Degrees are nice, but in the end the plans of the 'Disaster Management' individuals generally fell woefully short.
Perhaps you can point him/her to an area where experience may be garnered?
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to grandma For This Useful Post:
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 08-16-2016, 01:52 PM
juskom95's Avatar
juskom95 juskom95 is offline
Time to melt snowflakes!
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Kentucky
Age: 35
Posts: 30,164
Thanks: 65,855
Thanked 66,357 Times in 22,045 Posts
Awards Showcase
Outstanding Member 
Total Awards: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by grandma View Post
Perhaps you can point him/her to an area where experience may be garnered?
Any regional disaster would work, now wouldn't it? Theory =/= Practice

We have blizzards, floods, tornadoes, hurricanes, earthquakes, 'riots' etc. All of these have caused regional disasters, and their 'management' has been hit & miss.
Quick reply to this message
Old 08-16-2016, 04:23 PM
neiowa neiowa is offline
Hunter
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,128
Thanks: 387
Thanked 1,092 Times in 567 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TDFbound View Post
What sort of work do you do? I also live in WNC and am trying to figure out what to do with my recently obtained degree in Emergency & Disaster Management.
Are you well established in a community with several years FD or EMS experience. Where current EMS Coordinator is retiring? That about it.


The private/internet diploma mills are really pushing EMA programs but seem to forget to talk about job placement assistance.
Quick reply to this message
Old 08-17-2016, 03:08 AM
Old fart's Avatar
Old fart Old fart is offline
Isaiah 41:10, Acts 5:29
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Land of 40,000 mosquito hatcheries
Posts: 4,805
Thanks: 24,686
Thanked 8,510 Times in 3,197 Posts
Default

TDFbound--

Contact the American red Cross and become a trained volunteer (yes, they have training to become a volunteer). Then follow-through and volunteer through some disasters. This will get you a little experience and maybe you'll make some contacts.

Do an internship with a disaster relief or assistance organization. Doctors without Borders, evangelistic missions with social ministry, Peace Corps, the water guy, etc.

Take the free FEMA courses.

Above all, listen to what the people with experience have to say. Book knowledge is nice, but having been through a bunch of S gives one a very different perspective and a lot of valuable skills, especially in logistics and administration. What works is what counts. Anything that doesn't work or is inefficient is wasteful and can cost lives/catastrophic property loss. BTW, military experience, especially if the person did emergency operations/management, logistics management, civil affairs, nation building, peacekeeping, humanitarian relief, or deployed, is very relevant and valuable.

If you went to Capella or University of Minnesota, they have job placement/search assistance.
Quick reply to this message
Old 08-17-2016, 08:08 AM
cleatis's Avatar
cleatis cleatis is offline
The end is,,,,,
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: southeast of nowhere
Posts: 9,814
Thanks: 10,029
Thanked 13,157 Times in 5,510 Posts
Default

Not just FEMA, cause we see this, red flag! Maybe a Red Cross shelter BOB. Sounds more acceptable. If the feds run it, run away! I love the idea OP has posted. But other than weapons I cant see anything they wouldn't want you to bring.
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to cleatis For This Useful Post:
Old 08-17-2016, 08:16 AM
swamppapa swamppapa is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: N. central Ok.
Posts: 10,064
Thanks: 2,498
Thanked 16,395 Times in 6,298 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TDFbound View Post
What sort of work do you do? I also live in WNC and am trying to figure out what to do with my recently obtained degree in Emergency & Disaster Management.
The Arkansas/ Oklahoma Red Cross region is where the Red Cross sends people for training we have the most disasters nationally. Be ready and willing to deploy. The GF had to turned down Guam, California, and one other.
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to swamppapa For This Useful Post:
Old 08-17-2016, 10:11 AM
PurpleKitty PurpleKitty is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Houston
Posts: 11,312
Thanks: 7,643
Thanked 22,754 Times in 7,867 Posts
Default

Let me tell you a story about short term weather emergencies and shelters.

In 2008, we had a cat 2 headed for Houston. Ike, it was called.

My husband had had yet another "complication" and was bed bound, screaming in pain when he moved, and not eating at all. He would only take strawberry Atkins shakes.

I live in Houston. Everyone told me to take him to a shelter in Dallas. I couldn't even get him up, how could I get him on a bus? And who would take us to the bus station? Yes, I could call a cab but he was adamant he wanted to stay home.

So we did.

The neighbor's roof was damaged and they were gone for a week. They came home to massive damage on their second floor.

We had no damage, praise God.

We had 4 days without electricity, one day without water (which is why I have my 55 gallon water barrels now), and no other problems.

I put his shakes into a cooler and put all our ice and cold packs on top. They lasted until we got our power back. Paratransit (carpool service for severely disabled) came back with limited service after about 5 days, so we could go to Walmart.

We have a gas stove and I was cooking Turkey spam the day after the hurricane.

What about the shelters? They were so poorly set up our local news was telling us they didn't even have beds. My agonized husband would have been lying on the floor. But, the reporters told us, the shelter was taking people to sporting goods stores and encouraging them to buy their own cots.

[censored] that. Hell no. Never. They didn't even have a bed. How could they be set up for my special needs husband?

People thought I was an abusive bitch for keeping him home but I'm glad I did and I will absolutely do it again.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to PurpleKitty For This Useful Post:
Old 08-17-2016, 10:57 AM
Exarmyguy Exarmyguy is online now
Survivor
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Within view of the Pacific Ocean
Posts: 4,029
Thanks: 4,477
Thanked 7,898 Times in 2,626 Posts
Default

There are ways to bring small firearms into FEMA shelters ,unless they have metal detectors on the entrances.
Quick reply to this message
Old 08-21-2016, 10:47 PM
TDFbound's Avatar
TDFbound TDFbound is offline
Average Joe
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 2,654
Thanks: 25,147
Thanked 2,318 Times in 1,185 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Old fart View Post
TDFbound--

Contact the American red Cross and become a trained volunteer (yes, they have training to become a volunteer). Then follow-through and volunteer through some disasters. This will get you a little experience and maybe you'll make some contacts.

Do an internship with a disaster relief or assistance organization. Doctors without Borders, evangelistic missions with social ministry, Peace Corps, the water guy, etc.

Take the free FEMA courses.

Above all, listen to what the people with experience have to say. Book knowledge is nice, but having been through a bunch of S gives one a very different perspective and a lot of valuable skills, especially in logistics and administration. What works is what counts. Anything that doesn't work or is inefficient is wasteful and can cost lives/catastrophic property loss. BTW, military experience, especially if the person did emergency operations/management, logistics management, civil affairs, nation building, peacekeeping, humanitarian relief, or deployed, is very relevant and valuable.

If you went to Capella or University of Minnesota, they have job placement/search assistance.
Sounds like good advice but, as far as I can tell, it is still impractical for me to follow it. Like some others said, experience is key, whether through internships or volunteering. Unfortunately, I literally couldn't afford to do any internships while in school because I was working 50+ hours a week (at pretty low pay) and all internships I could find also required full time hours during the week, which would mean I would have had to quit my job or find a full time night job in addition to full time internship and school and wife and baby, etc... Not to mention that these internships only offered to pay like $200 a week, and many were unpaid and/or 500+ miles away. Likewise, I had difficulty being accepted as a volunteer since I couldn't afford the time off work with no paycheck to perform the volunteer duties asked of my by various places. I got my degree from a state university and they have provided absolutely zero help with job placement. Our graduating career fair was a joke, with only commission only sales jobs or entry level labor jobs such as dishwashers, waiters, or bellmen.

Several disaster response companies offered me positions but expected me to have things I can't afford, such as specific vehicles or tools, so I had to pass up those opportunities too. I've already sold everything I have of any value (except for one rifle) in order to keep up with maintenance on my cars and family medical bills, so I feel pretty stuck in a rut. I either need lots of time or lots of money to get a decent job, it seems, but it also seems like I need a decent job in order to get the requisite time or money... I've even applied for jobs with a few police and fire departments, passed the written and physical tests and all levels of interviews and no luck on employment.
Quick reply to this message
Old 08-31-2016, 05:21 PM
CCW's Avatar
CCW CCW is offline
Prepared
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Montana
Posts: 295
Thanks: 361
Thanked 557 Times in 204 Posts
Default

If you are open to possibly going to a FEMA shelter, then I think a FEMA-specific BOB makes a lot of sense.

For what's worth my wife and I have two rules:
1. Never trust the federal government.
2. Never become a refugee.
3. Never allow someone to disarm (as in firearms) you.

Granted there are exceptions to #3 such as getting our mail at the PO, doctors visit etc. but you can avoid most death-traps-by-design.
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to CCW For This Useful Post:
Old 08-31-2016, 07:04 PM
Mash5 Mash5 is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 9
Thanks: 5
Thanked 11 Times in 5 Posts
Default

I don’t have any first hand knowledge of how FEMA runs a shelter but am a Red Cross emergency worker with full shelter training. I have also spent time in RC Shelters as a worker and two years ago as an evacuee as well due to wildfire, which was threatening my home. I did chose to stay in the shelter mostly because I was also working there. My homeowners policy would have covered a hotel and my phone rang all week with friends offering space. My family spent the week at grandmas.

These are a few facts that may help preparing to stay in a shelter and perhaps dispel some of the misinformation floating about.
1. As others have said, they are not optimal. They are not hotels. You will be issued a cot and two industrial blankets. I have found them very warm and sufficient but by no means luxurious. A self-inflating camp mattress would go a long way, as would a flat sheet. There may or may not be showers or more than an industrial public style bathroom. After a few days they will bring in showers but they may not be there at first.
2. The people that stay in shelters as a rule do not have other options for housing. The local homeless are generally the first to arrive and last to leave. The Red Cross does not turn anyone away. Next are those that have medical needs that prevent self-sufficiency. Those that have prepared well seem to be able to find better options.
3. You must register to stay but typically not to be there during the day for meals, warming/cooling, meeting and such. Many people chose to stay in cars or RVs outside to receive some of the services provided without having to register.
4. Even if you are registered, you can come and go as you please. They are not prisons.
5. They are a great place for official information. Generally, local officials will hold a meeting there in the evening to update residence on the status of the disasters. These meeting are where the news gets much of their report for the night so it is first hand at the shelter and you can ask questions.
6. Pets are not allowed in but there is generally a facility very nearby where they can stay. Like the parting lot or across the street.
7. Weapons are not allowed… officially… In a RC shelter, you will be asked to sign that you do not have any weapons during registration and ‘no weapons’ will be posted everywhere. That said, I have never been to one with a metal detector and nobody is going through your bags. If you brandish one or are even seen to have one, expect to be evicted and likely have law enforcement involved. If it is quietly kept out of site like it should be anyway until needed, I can’t see where it would be a problem unless you have to use it and in that case perhaps you feel the consequences are worth it. I always carry a small folding knife for utility proposes. It is not a weapon but I would use it as one if pressed just as I would a book or a chair.
8. There is security provided as part of the shelter. At a minimum, it will be a RC volunteer with special training in security. There will be one or more security watches in the dormitory all night. These will likely be an older man. In a shelter of any size, law enforcement would also have a presence.
9. Stuff is not going to make your stay better. I would prefer to have as little in the way of belongings as possible. Ideally, only what you can keep on you or afford to lose. If you have a large quantity of personal belonging, you will need to keep watch on it. You may consider stashing almost everything outside the shelter but that has risk as well. Ask a homeless person if they have ever lost their cache… They all have.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Mash5 For This Useful Post:
Old 08-31-2016, 07:22 PM
6471's Avatar
6471 6471 is offline
"Everbody has a plan . ."
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: The Border . . .
Posts: 2,187
Thanks: 1,012
Thanked 2,831 Times in 1,137 Posts
Default

Re the statement above on ARC shelters not being prisons. Precisely but for ANY shelter, perhaps a prison mindset can help.
By that I mean put yourself in the role of an Inmate. Where EVERYTHING you require must be supplied. No home, no clothes, no toiletry items, food, meds, etc.
NOW start building your magic bag.
What do you NEED & what will make life better in such a shelter, stuck at the airport, snowed in for 2-3 days, whatever real emergency that you can realistically for.
Not Mad Max fantasies, so do you REALLY need 14 different kinds of fire starters?
WTF are you so obsessed with a fire to begin with?
So maybe warm clean clothes, daily meds, small toiletry kit, warm blanket, shower shoes, pen light. Sturdy folding knife, CCW pistol & permit, encrypted thumb drive with copies of important docs. Cell charger or even burner Track phone.
Snacks, a few bottles of water . . .
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to 6471 For This Useful Post:
Old 09-01-2016, 09:54 AM
juskom95's Avatar
juskom95 juskom95 is offline
Time to melt snowflakes!
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Kentucky
Age: 35
Posts: 30,164
Thanks: 65,855
Thanked 66,357 Times in 22,045 Posts
Awards Showcase
Outstanding Member 
Total Awards: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mash5 View Post
4. Even if you are registered, you can come and go as you please. They are not prisons.
Not the case for Katrina. Many were mandated to go to the shelters, and were not allowed to leave.

Quote:
7. Weapons are not allowed… officially… In a RC shelter, you will be asked to sign that you do not have any weapons during registration and ‘no weapons’ will be posted everywhere. That said, I have never been to one with a metal detector and nobody is going through your bags. If you brandish one or are even seen to have one, expect to be evicted and likely have law enforcement involved. If it is quietly kept out of site like it should be anyway until needed, I can’t see where it would be a problem unless you have to use it and in that case perhaps you feel the consequences are worth it. I always carry a small folding knife for utility proposes. It is not a weapon but I would use it as one if pressed just as I would a book or a chair.
How is this legal when mandated to go to the shelter?

Quote:
9. Stuff is not going to make your stay better. I would prefer to have as little in the way of belongings as possible. Ideally, only what you can keep on you or afford to lose. If you have a large quantity of personal belonging, you will need to keep watch on it. You may consider stashing almost everything outside the shelter but that has risk as well. Ask a homeless person if they have ever lost their cache… They all have.
In other words, you would be better sleeping in a tent outside?
Quick reply to this message
Old 09-01-2016, 01:21 PM
Mash5 Mash5 is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 9
Thanks: 5
Thanked 11 Times in 5 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by juskom95 View Post
Not the case for Katrina. Many were mandated to go to the shelters, and were not allowed to leave.
Do you have a good source about this? I'm not disputing it. I would just like to know more about it. What areas or shelters? Who was ordering it? Who ran the shelters? What exactly were the circumstances? I know a lot of people from the RC that worked those shelters and the stories they tell don't fit the horror stories. None of them were in the super dome though. Anyway if you have any good sources I would love to read more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by juskom95 View Post
In other words, you would be better sleeping in a tent outside?
I think that for many or even most this may be a very valid choice under many circumstances. As I said, it is common for people to sleep outside the shelter. I imagine some also chose not to even approach. My problem with the statement is the word WOULD. That strikes me as counter to a good preparation mindset. I would substitute the word MAY. Keep your options and you mind open and plan for a range of dynamic possibility. What if you are injured or member(s) of your family is injured. What if the weather is a factor? Based on your comments about Katrina, what if there is a curfew in place and being found on the street (even in the tent) would be considered criminal and land you in actual jail. Just because it is unjust does not mean you should not be prepared for it.

My approach would be to plan for flexibility and fluidity rather than dogma. The idea that all shelters are boggy man run FEMA/UN, super dome, concentration camps from some apocalypses movie, may lead you to make a poor choice about your survival. Maybe some are, but I know that it is far from always the case and I think it is actually a rare exception. If your choices are based on false assumption rather than reality they will not serve you. Plan for the worst but keep open to the reality around you and changing circumstance.

While I was evacuated, I was not allowed to return home even to fetch my wife's medications. The law enforcement and other public resources are extremely stretched in a large scale emergency. They don't really do exceptions. Even as a ID carrying disaster worker and with friends in the Police and Fire departments. The roads were needed to move equipment around and there were no resources for security within the evac zone. I get that not letting me return was a way of keeping my home safe. I had left it unlocked in case the fire fighters needing access (I have seen what they do when encountering locked doors).

Warning: political rant coming...
I am a libertarian and as such I believe not only in personal self sufficiency but also community self sufficiency. If the government is not the answer but the problem, than what is the answer? Personal self sufficiency? Absolutely. But what about the old lady with no family nearby, low income, health problems or mental health problems, that can't drive and does not speak much English?

One of the biggest problems with liberal government is that they want to take care of her with a far off big government program and once they do that, we as her neighbors no longer feel that she is our responsibility. If she starves or is burned over in a fast moving wildfire it is not our moral failing but the government that failed her. Big government is detrimental to society for a lot of reasons but one of them is that they drive a wedge of indifference between us. They plant the idea that once we pay our taxes, we are not responsible for anyone but our self.

One of the things I love about disaster work is the it can bring out the best in people. I understand that the opposite can also be true but in reality I have never seen that side. Most people are very good and want to help others. In a disaster people get to know their neighbors in a way they never would in normal life. The people in the shelter with me had lived near me for years just up the street in many cases and we had never met. The shelter may not be filled with zombie hordes but with your neighbors that are in the same boat as you. You may find that you can help them or that they can help you.

Just stuff to think about. I hope it helps in your planning.
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to Mash5 For This Useful Post:
Old 09-01-2016, 03:22 PM
Colt's Avatar
Colt Colt is online now
Simple Goat Herder
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,239
Thanks: 15,669
Thanked 27,582 Times in 7,391 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mash5 View Post
8. There is security provided as part of the shelter. At a minimum, it will be a RC volunteer with special training in security. There will be one or more security watches in the dormitory all night. These will likely be an older man. In a shelter of any size, law enforcement would also have a presence.
Yeah, having a random unarmed helpless guy designated to be 'security' AKA 'Politely ask anyone to leave that breaks our rules.' does not impress me. There is effectively no security.

In cases where LEO or Military have been put in these roles, historically they have not handled the situation well and either fled at the first sign of trouble (countless refugee camps that have encountered hostile people for example) or turned into outright tyrants that feel like they own the dependent people inside and see them as livestock (Katrina, etc).

I think your problem is that you are only thinking about minor disasters or near miss disasters. Flood happens, a few people have to leave their houses for a couple days, life goes on as normal outside of the few houses that were flooded, and then people have to buy new carpets and such. Or there's a hurricane, it doesn't even really hit directly, a few people have to replace the shingles on their roof, maybe a window or two, and everyone's back at work the next day.

These are not real emergencies. They might be crappy things that happen to a few people in their personal lives, but they have little to no societal effect. These are the situations from which your image of shelters is coming, and it's one in which a few people need little to no actual help and the existence of the shelter is more for political propaganda and psychological comfort.

We are trying to discuss shelters in real emergencies where there are shortages, hazards, problems, hostilities, and the loss of day to day life for society on at least a city wide basis. It's one thing give a handful of homeless people a place to crash during a storm. It's an entirely different thing to be cut off from the logistics and first responder networks and have to actually survive and make due. Once people start flooding in and you tell them there's no cookies and milk waiting because the supply trucks are too busy being in a disaster, or the toilets don't work because it's a disaster and things like that break, all hell breaks loose. The Super Dome being the biggest recent domestic example. Bodies were stacked up against walls and people were ****ting on the floors and there was little to no food and water. It was not pretty, and it could have been far worse if the shelter had not been famous and all over in the media forcing FEMA to dump everything it had into trying to support and stabilize it.
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to Colt For This Useful Post:
Old 09-01-2016, 03:30 PM
juskom95's Avatar
juskom95 juskom95 is offline
Time to melt snowflakes!
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Kentucky
Age: 35
Posts: 30,164
Thanks: 65,855
Thanked 66,357 Times in 22,045 Posts
Awards Showcase
Outstanding Member 
Total Awards: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mash5 View Post
Do you have a good source about this? I'm not disputing it. I would just like to know more about it. What areas or shelters? Who was ordering it? Who ran the shelters? What exactly were the circumstances? I know a lot of people from the RC that worked those shelters and the stories they tell don't fit the horror stories. None of them were in the super dome though. Anyway if you have any good sources I would love to read more.
Central LA. I just provided security and had to deal with the 'refugee' issues they caused, I was not involved in running it. I know we had to deal with an issue of them desiring to leave but could not.

Quote:
Based on your comments about Katrina, what if there is a curfew in place and being found on the street (even in the tent) would be considered criminal and land you in actual jail. Just because it is unjust does not mean you should not be prepared for it.
There were not enough LE down there to perform basic functions, let alone the rescue operations and deal with the increased idiocy of the citizens. Do you really think there were enough to enforce that or many of the other 'good ideas' they had at the time?

LE was thin, and unless you were actively murdering someone, they were not going to respond.

Quote:
My approach would be to plan for flexibility and fluidity rather than dogma. The idea that all shelters are boggy man run FEMA/UN, super dome, concentration camps from some apocalypses movie, may lead you to make a poor choice about your survival. Maybe some are, but I know that it is far from always the case and I think it is actually a rare exception. If your choices are based on false assumption rather than reality they will not serve you. Plan for the worst but keep open to the reality around you and changing circumstance.
During large disasters, they are a joke during the incident and poorly run after the incident.

Quote:
While I was evacuated, I was not allowed to return home even to fetch my wife's medications. The law enforcement and other public resources are extremely stretched in a large scale emergency. They don't really do exceptions. Even as a ID carrying disaster worker and with friends in the Police and Fire departments. The roads were needed to move equipment around and there were no resources for security within the evac zone. I get that not letting me return was a way of keeping my home safe. I had left it unlocked in case the fire fighters needing access (I have seen what they do when encountering locked doors).
Yup, I wasn't either, but guess what? LE was thin, so I got the needed food/medication/water from our storage. If they were going to arrest me for it, so be it. There were simply not enough people out there.

Quote:
Warning: political rant coming...
I am a libertarian and as such I believe not only in personal self sufficiency but also community self sufficiency. If the government is not the answer but the problem, than what is the answer? Personal self sufficiency? Absolutely. But what about the old lady with no family nearby, low income, health problems or mental health problems, that can't drive and does not speak much English?

One of the biggest problems with liberal government is that they want to take care of her with a far off big government program and once they do that, we as her neighbors no longer feel that she is our responsibility. If she starves or is burned over in a fast moving wildfire it is not our moral failing but the government that failed her. Big government is detrimental to society for a lot of reasons but one of them is that they drive a wedge of indifference between us. They plant the idea that once we pay our taxes, we are not responsible for anyone but our self.

One of the things I love about disaster work is the it can bring out the best in people. I understand that the opposite can also be true but in reality I have never seen that side. Most people are very good and want to help others. In a disaster people get to know their neighbors in a way they never would in normal life. The people in the shelter with me had lived near me for years just up the street in many cases and we had never met. The shelter may not be filled with zombie hordes but with your neighbors that are in the same boat as you. You may find that you can help them or that they can help you.

Just stuff to think about. I hope it helps in your planning.
I have had to deal with the US RC and the IRC more than once. While there are some good workers inside, the organizations as a whole are bureaucratic monsters, which do what all bureaucracies do: Make things worse.
Quick reply to this message
Old 09-01-2016, 03:32 PM
juskom95's Avatar
juskom95 juskom95 is offline
Time to melt snowflakes!
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Kentucky
Age: 35
Posts: 30,164
Thanks: 65,855
Thanked 66,357 Times in 22,045 Posts
Awards Showcase
Outstanding Member 
Total Awards: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colt View Post
In cases where LEO or Military have been put in these roles, historically they have not handled the situation well and either fled at the first sign of trouble (countless refugee camps that have encountered hostile people for example) or turned into outright tyrants that feel like they own the dependent people inside and see them as livestock (Katrina, etc).
There are trained active units for this, but they were deliberately held back in the Katrina instance.
Quick reply to this message
Old 09-01-2016, 04:34 PM
Mash5 Mash5 is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 9
Thanks: 5
Thanked 11 Times in 5 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by juskom95 View Post
the organizations as a whole are bureaucratic monsters, which do what all bureaucracies do: Make things worse.
I agree completely that they are bureaucratic organizations. The ARC is really nothing but a bureaucracy. The people on the ground are almost entirely amateur volunteers with really very little training given the job they are asked to do. They are supported by a paid staff at the higher levels that are paid poorly and below market rate for the kind of work they do. In many cases they are promoted to the level where they are incompetent to do the job.

All that said, and with faults full acknowledged, I ask what is a better alternative? Easy to **** in the wind about how poorly run an organization is and armchair an emergency after the fact. When there is **** in the fan the guy that jumps in to help is likely to get a bit of brown on them.

Katrina is an outlier not the normal outcome. That does not mean one should not plan for it but most shelters are far better by any metric. I don't see how you are concluding that ARC makes things worse. At this moment there are dozens of ARC shelters open in the gulf areas effected buy flooding. Staffed by local volunteers as well as those from around the country. They have supplies that came from warehouses provided by donations. They barley make the news because they work just fine. Even if the shelters are poorly run how is this making things worse? What would you consider better?
Quick reply to this message
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
bug out bag, bug out plans, evacuation, evacuee, fema, shelter



Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Survivalist Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Gender
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:02 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright © Kevin Felts 2006 - 2015,
Green theme by http://www.themesbydesign.net