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Old 12-11-2010, 02:16 PM
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I'm in Michigan. I would like to buy a new or used rifle for hunting deer. I am the type of person who focuses on aiming so I don't want to worry about running out of ammo. This means it has to have an external magazine system.

What are the requirements for buying a rifle in Michigan these days? What questions do they ask you? Worst ticket I got was a traffic ticket in 1989. No other offenses. No taxes due of any kind, no warrants, I'm a straight up law-abiding guy. I understand the rifle must be registered. Does the retailer do that or do I call my local police for forms?

I shot BB guns extensively 20 years ago but haven't shot much since.

What gun would you recommend?
Can you give me a website so I can look at prices and gun features?

Requirements:
- Magazine system.
- Lighter in weight.
- Semi-auto, not bolt-action, not lever action.
- I was thinking around .308 or .30-30. People used to use this for deer years ago.
- Hollow stock would be great to store stuff in.
- Shorter carbine barrel would be nice.
- I'll be buying from a locally owned store.
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Old 12-11-2010, 02:30 PM
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Whatever you do, don't buy an ....

SKS, they're the worst rifle in the world

AR, the round is way too small

AK, stamped receivers are junk and milled receivers are too heavy

Mosin, they only cost $75 so they must be terrible

Remington, if you use the safety you'll kill yourself and everyone around you



ETA* /Sarcasm off......
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Old 12-11-2010, 02:34 PM
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I've heard the AK-47 is reliable but inaccurate.
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Old 12-11-2010, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bulrush View Post
I'm in Michigan. I would like to buy a new or used rifle for hunting deer. I am the type of person who focuses on aiming so I don't want to worry about running out of ammo. This means it has to have an external magazine system.

What are the requirements for buying a rifle in Michigan these days? What questions do they ask you? Worst ticket I got was a traffic ticket in 1989. No other offenses. No taxes due of any kind, no warrants, I'm a straight up law-abiding guy. I understand the rifle must be registered. Does the retailer do that or do I call my local police for forms?

I shot BB guns extensively 20 years ago but haven't shot much since.

What gun would you recommend?
Can you give me a website so I can look at prices and gun features?

Requirements:
- Magazine system.
- Lighter in weight.
- Semi-auto, not bolt-action, not lever action.
- I was thinking around .308 or .30-30. People used to use this for deer years ago.
- Hollow stock would be great to store stuff in.
- Shorter carbine barrel would be nice.
- I'll be buying from a locally owned store.
Starting from scratch, eh?

Put the time into your puchase and do research. You are going to do a lot of reading before you buy. Talk to people you know who have some experiance with rifles. Also go to a few different gun stores with your questions written down. Be prepared to go to them a couple time because as you learn more you will have new questions.
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Old 12-11-2010, 03:31 PM
LuniticFringeInc LuniticFringeInc is offline
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Well from the list of "requirements" it sorta sounds like something along the lines of a AR-10 might be something for you to look at, especially one with a flat top and rails on the flat top and gas block, to allow for a variety of sighting systems. There are a lot of caliber options in this platform. The 243, 260, 308, 338 Federal, and I think a few of the short mags are also available. Thats a lot of flexibility right there, surely one will fill your needs. The AR-15 wouldnt be a bad choice either with a 6.8 SPC or 6.5 Grendel upper. Either would make a pretty decent deer getter. Yeah I know one of those Evil Black Rifles just wouldnt look right in a deer stand but you know they dont have to be black and evil and I am seeing a lot more folks show up with them and they can be pretty dang effective!
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Old 12-11-2010, 03:43 PM
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Browning - BAR lightweight stalker is eaxactly what you described . Kind of expensive - about $1000 I think .
Or , Ruger mini 30 - Shoots 762x39 .
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Old 12-11-2010, 04:49 PM
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I wouldnbe too overly concerned about repeat shots. More deer have fallen to levers and bolts than anything else.

As far as hunting rifle based semi-autos go, the browning BAR is the cream of the crop. Expect to spend around $1000.

Before buying a rifle, take a hunter safety course first. I do not live near michigan, but there may be shotgun only areas. Also, some states do not allow semi-auto rifles, and most that do allow them limit you to 5 round magazines.

As far as shotguns go, there are many good ones. A pump can be as fast as a semi-auto. I have hadd great success with the remington 1187 shotgun. 5+1 capacity, which can be extended to 8+1. A rifled slug barrel will have no problems making a 150 yard shot. Don't sound like much, but in the woods it's virtually impossible to get a clean 150 yard shot anyway. 75 yards or less is the common distance.

IT sounds like you want a military based rifle for hunting more than a hunting rifle. A combination of both is an AR-15 in .223 with a 6.8spc upper. Put the 6.8spc barrel for hunting, use the .223/5.56 barrel for affordable target practice. Both the extra barrel and gun will cost about $1500, however, there is significant savings with using 223 for practice. Most .308 based rifles are around the same price. AR-10 and M1A cost around $1200-$1500.

7.62x39 is fine for hunting. The problem with AK-47's is not so much accuracy, it's the sights. You get a group that 3" wide at 100 yards, but 8 inches tall. They're not the best sights. Tech sights for about $100 upgrades both SKS and AK-47 sights to the same style the AR's and M14/M1A/M1 garands use. With quality ammunition, accuracy can be on par with the other guns.

IT does sound like you're a novice to firearms. I suggest a 22lr bolt action rifle or a 12 gauge pump shotgun to start with. 22lr is inexpensive to shoot (5 cents a round versus $1+ each for deer rifles). It is primarily a small game round, but it's an excellent training rifle. The 12 gauge pump will do anything you need it to. Small game hunt, Big game hunt, and defensive purposes. They are used frequently by our troops as a primary arm too. It was an extremely effective arm in the trench wars of WWI. Conflicts rarely occur at long ranges. Typical armed confrontations happen at 15 yards and commonly 15 feet.

Either one of these purchases is a basic foundation for a hunting firearms collection. Typically, most seasoned hunters have many different rifles, but end up having the old 22lr or shotgun in their hands for most of the season. Deer season is only 1 month with a rifle typically. Small game in most states is 6 months long. Deer season in most states in between thanksgiving and christmas. It's hard to get time off to go hunting. Small game has less pressure as far as time goes. It's also rare to be "skunked". You'll atleast see a squirrel of two every day, and usually come home with 2 or more.
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Old 12-11-2010, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
I am the type of person who focuses on aiming so I don't want to worry about running out of ammo. This means it has to have an external magazine system.
If you're deer hunting, the "magazine system" is irrelevant. One well-placed shot will do the trick.

And a semiauto is certainly not necessary for deer hunting. A single-shot or lever-action would be fine for MI, where 95% of shots are under 100 yards anyway.
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Old 12-11-2010, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hungry View Post
Whatever you do, don't buy an ....

SKS, they're the worst rifle in the world

AR, the round is way too small

AK, stamped receivers are junk and milled receivers are too heavy

Mosin, they only cost $75 so they must be terrible

Remington, if you use the safety you'll kill yourself and everyone around you



obviously you have never had any of these weapon

ive seen sks shoot just fine and be reasonably accurate.actually i havent seen a bad sks yet

the AK has reasonable accuracy ive had one that shot 2" [email protected] 100yrd but it wasnt one of the cheap importer slap together parts kits they sell now days.the newer ones arnt as good as the older ones that is for sure
the sks and the good AK's are plenty accurate if your hunting in dense forrest but not if you got to make longer range shots past 200 yrds but the 7.62x39 isnt a long range caliber. can they hit a dime at 1000 yrd? no, they arent designed to do so,but they will hit a pie plate at 200 yrds which is just about as accurate as the adverage shooter.

mosin is cheap because its a russain import i have never had on so i cant say how accurate they are.but im sure they are reliable

all remmington 700 sold today have the new x-mark pro trigger they dont go off like the old 700's use to and only 1% of the weapons ever miss fired it wasnt all of them

http://www.remington.com/pages/xmark-pro-trigger.aspx



bulrush i wouldnt worry so much about needing alot of ammo while hunting if you hit a vial area 1 shot will do it if your hunting in dense forrest i would get a semi-auto shotgun with a rifled slug barrel. if i was hunting in open terrain to where you will need range i would look at a bolt action rifle like a remington 700 in a 308 and get a good scope
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Old 12-11-2010, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hungry View Post
Whatever you do, don't buy an ....

SKS, they're the worst rifle in the world

AR, the round is way too small

AK, stamped receivers are junk and milled receivers are too heavy

Mosin, they only cost $75 so they must be terrible

Remington, if you use the safety you'll kill yourself and everyone around you

Where to start oh yes :
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Old 12-11-2010, 05:29 PM
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as far as deer go i have killed them with one shot from a marlin model 60 right behing the ear didnt even take a step
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Old 12-11-2010, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bulrush View Post
I'm in Michigan. I would like to buy a new or used rifle for hunting deer. I am the type of person who focuses on aiming so I don't want to worry about running out of ammo. This means it has to have an external magazine system.

What are the requirements for buying a rifle in Michigan these days? What questions do they ask you? Worst ticket I got was a traffic ticket in 1989. No other offenses. No taxes due of any kind, no warrants, I'm a straight up law-abiding guy. I understand the rifle must be registered. Does the retailer do that or do I call my local police for forms?

I shot BB guns extensively 20 years ago but haven't shot much since.

What gun would you recommend?
Can you give me a website so I can look at prices and gun features?

Requirements:
- Magazine system.
- Lighter in weight.
- Semi-auto, not bolt-action, not lever action.
- I was thinking around .308 or .30-30. People used to use this for deer years ago.
- Hollow stock would be great to store stuff in.
- Shorter carbine barrel would be nice.
- I'll be buying from a locally owned store.
most 30-30 are lever guns i have occasionaly seen one thats a bolt gun

hollow stock =weaker stock

semi auto with a magazine is kinda limiting yourself to more expencive rifles mil type rifles honestly tho a 3030 with a speed loader can be reloaded pretty quick even tho your not wanting a lever gun there cheap and very accurate hold a good number of rounds carbine length

but honestly if your going after deer you really only get one maby two shots before the deer hauls ass and is gone
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Old 12-11-2010, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryptkeeper View Post


obviously you have never had any of these weapon

ive seen sks shoot just fine and be reasonably accurate

the AK has reasonable accuracy ive had one that shot 2" [email protected] 100yrd but it wasnt one of the cheap importer slap together parts kits they sell now days.the newer ones arnt as good as the older ones that is for sure
the sks and the good AK's are plenty accurate if your hunting in dense forrest but not if you got to make longer range shots past 200 yrds but the 7.62x39 isnt a long range caliber. can they hit a dime at 1000 yrd? no, they arent designed to do so
but they will hit a pie plate at 200 yrds which is just about as accurate as the adverage shooter.

mosin is cheap because its a russain import i have never had on so i cant say how accurate they are.but im sure they are reliable

all remmington 700 sold today have the new x-mark pro trigger they dont go off like the old 700's use to and only 1% of the weapons ever miss fired it wasnt all of them

http://www.remington.com/pages/xmark-pro-trigger.aspx



bulrush i wouldnt worry so much about needing alot of ammo while hunting if you hit a vial area 1 shot will do it if your hunting in dense forrest i would get a semi-auto shotgun with a rifled slug barrel. if i was huting in open terrain to where you will need range i would look at a bolt action rifle like a remington 700 in a 308 and get a good scope
I own at least one of each, except the AR. Sarcasm just doesn't come through in text sometimes.
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Old 12-11-2010, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hungry View Post
I own at least one of each, except the AR. Sarcasm just doesn't come through in text sometimes.
i understood your sarcasm bro.


heres mine:

i am looking for a deer hunting rifle, one that has a detachable magazine with over 10 round capacity. i need to be able to stay on target through the scope while swapping magazines. it must be semi-auto, but be more accurate than a bolt action. i am hunting zombie deer with my magic rifle.
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Old 12-12-2010, 01:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bulrush View Post
I'm in Michigan. I would like to buy a new or used rifle for hunting deer. I am the type of person who focuses on aiming so I don't want to worry about running out of ammo. This means it has to have an external magazine system.

What are the requirements for buying a rifle in Michigan these days? What questions do they ask you? Worst ticket I got was a traffic ticket in 1989. No other offenses. No taxes due of any kind, no warrants, I'm a straight up law-abiding guy. I understand the rifle must be registered. Does the retailer do that or do I call my local police for forms?

I shot BB guns extensively 20 years ago but haven't shot much since.

What gun would you recommend?
Can you give me a website so I can look at prices and gun features?

Requirements:
- Magazine system.
- Lighter in weight.
- Semi-auto, not bolt-action, not lever action.
- I was thinking around .308 or .30-30. People used to use this for deer years ago.
- Hollow stock would be great to store stuff in.
- Shorter carbine barrel would be nice.
- I'll be buying from a locally owned store.
Check with your gun shop dealer in regards to what you need to do to own a rifle. He will most likely hand you a form to fill out. Ask him about it, and go from there.

Someone suggested you start off with a rifle chambered in 22lr. An excellent idea if you ask me, as something like this will provide you with a cost effective way to build up your marksmanship skills with a rifle.

Next up is your caliber selection for a deer rifle. It looks like you wanna go with a 30 caliber bullet according to your own requirements, and either 308 or 30-30 make good deer slayer pills. I think that you should look at 7.62x39mm as well. You will find more semiautomatic rifles with detachable magazines that are chambered in this caliber vs 30-30. I have successfully hunted deer with all 3 of these calibers, and all 3 will do the job, provided that the shot is placed correctly, and taken to within decent reason from where you are standing in relation to how far the deer is away from you at the time. I prefer 308 myself.

Nest up is the choice of what rifle to go with. Looks like you want a semiauto, so no need to talk about anything else.

I prefer the "military" types, as they tend to be better built for reliability/durability, and will kill a deer just as well as anything else chambered in the same cartridge. A magazine fed firearm is only as reliable as the magazines that feed it, and most of the these types of rifles have well built magazines. Most sport better iron sights than the sporting rifles do,
if this is important to you as well. Both calibers can be found in military surplus ammunition, making it cost effective for improving marksmanship skills with your specific rifle that you end up choosing. I would also suggest that you research the difference in costs of ammunition when comparing 7.62x39mm to 308/7.62x51mm.


The SKS, AK types, and AR types are covered heavily throughout this forum as well as others. Tons of info can be found regarding the above mentioned firearms. Some models have holes in thier stocks designed for holding their respective cleaning kits. ( Some SKS/AK types have a one piece cleaning rod that rides just below the bbl as well, while the M16 cleaning rod is sectional, and can be broken down to fit inside it's compartment in the stock)
Another option is a newer model Ruger Mini30. ( essentially a mini14 chambered in 7.62x39mm) All of them would meet your bbl length requirement I should think.

If possible, get your hands on all of them, and see which one feels right for you. Look for things about them that you like or dislike in comparison to each. ( Examples include location of the safety, charging handle, iron sights, overall balance,etc..)

308 chambered rifles also include the AK, and AR types, along with your bbl requirements, and an inner compartment in the stock.

Others that would meet your requirements include the M14/M1A, FAL types, and the G3 type rifles. They will weigh more than most of the other 7.62x39mm firearms in comparison. Get a hold of these and see what you think.

You will most likely shoot better with the rifle that feels better in your hands.

After owning, shooting, and hunting with all of the above mentioned rifles....I prefer the M14/M1A design sporting 18.5in bbls. I made this decision long before I was really into computers and forums, so I can honestly say that I have been in your shoes. 16in tubes can be found in the SAI M1A Socom16/SocomII.

PICS:

(From top to bottom: Ruger 10-22, SAI M1A Socom, Iver Johnson M1 Carbine)
I do not use 22lr to hunt deer with as the legal hassles would not be worth the trouble over doing such. The other 2 have been used to dump deer and pigs with the iron sights as pictured.

( From left to right: M14S Tanker, M1A-A1, WASR10/63). I have used all 3 to take pigs with, and the 2 M14 types as deer thumper 's in the past. Iron sights, as well as optics.
Note: From my experience, the most important part of utilizing optics on an M1A/M14 all starts with a solid mount. I prefer receiver mounts, and like the ARMS#18 split rail, and Bassett mounts myself.


M1A/M14:
www.springfieldarmory.com
www.fultonarmory.com
www.lrbarms.com
www.762mmfirearms.com
www.smithenterprise.com

A good source for magazines, to include 5rd mags as most states limit mag capacity while deer hunting:
www.44mag.com

FAL:
www.dsarms.com

AR10:
www.armalite.com

G3:
www.ptr91.com

Take your time, do your homework, pick up a rifle chambered in 22lr to start working on the basic fundamentals of marksmanship as soon as you can, and I would also recommend that you take said rifle and a brick of ammunition along to an Appleseed event. We have a few members here that provide instruction at these events, and can provide alot of info about them, as well as websites.
A hunter safety course is mandatory in most states prior to hunting. Your local gunshop should have information regarding your state requirements.

FWIW...... I have seen folks with simple SKS, or AK type rifles out shoot other folks with M1A's, and AR's. Owning a rifle vs shooting a rifle well are 2 different subjects. In this example, the folks that were shooting the commie guns had obviously spent more time shooting them, vs the other 2 mentioned, even though the iron sights on the M1A's and AR's are much better for precise shot placement. The difference between a man with a rifle and a rifleman.


Good luck with your research, and choice in the end.

11B
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Old 12-12-2010, 04:48 AM
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Originally Posted by trixie View Post
i understood your sarcasm bro.


heres mine:

i am looking for a deer hunting rifle, one that has a detachable magazine with over 10 round capacity. i need to be able to stay on target through the scope while swapping magazines. it must be semi-auto, but be more accurate than a bolt action. i am hunting zombie deer with my magic rifle.
Hey trixie! Has anybody ever told you that you are a waist of time and space on this forum?
No? OK, I will! You are a worthless POS and not worth anybody's time
ESMF!
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Old 12-12-2010, 04:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bulrush View Post
I'm in Michigan. I would like to buy a new or used rifle for hunting deer. I am the type of person who focuses on aiming so I don't want to worry about running out of ammo. This means it has to have an external magazine system.

What are the requirements for buying a rifle in Michigan these days? What questions do they ask you? Worst ticket I got was a traffic ticket in 1989. No other offenses. No taxes due of any kind, no warrants, I'm a straight up law-abiding guy. I understand the rifle must be registered. Does the retailer do that or do I call my local police for forms?

I shot BB guns extensively 20 years ago but haven't shot much since.

What gun would you recommend?
Can you give me a website so I can look at prices and gun features?

Requirements:
- Magazine system.
- Lighter in weight.
- Semi-auto, not bolt-action, not lever action.
- I was thinking around .308 or .30-30. People used to use this for deer years ago.
- Hollow stock would be great to store stuff in.
- Shorter carbine barrel would be nice.
- I'll be buying from a locally owned store.
Easy answer for you.... Ruger Mini-30! The ballistics of the 30-30 and the fast handling of a semi-auto military carbine combined with good accuracy
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Old 12-12-2010, 08:22 AM
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It's rare to get enoguh time for a second shot. IF you wound the deer, I think it's OK to take a running shot. However, to shoot a running deer for the 1st shot is very unethical. Once you know how long a deer can live wounded and how fast they can travel and go from where you shoot them, you will never take a questionable shot.

Sometimes you may need a second shot, maybe once or twice a lifetime a third. Plenty of time to cycle a lever, plenty of time to cycle a bolt handle if you practice. A fixed magazine of 5 round is plenty for deer hunting. I make it a habit with both bow and rifle to shoot a deer twice no matter what. Sometimes the deer isn't truly dead, buy shocked and wounded. Two shots atleast assures if he wakes up, he won't live as long. Don't care if it damages more meat or not.

Th key to a successful hunt and a unspooked deer when you fire is pretty simple. Keep mind of your wind. If your hunting a deer that you know travels a certain spot, make sure the wind is blowing in your face. Buy a small bottle of talcum powder called a windicator, it shows the tiniest of breezes. If on the ground, stay about 50 yards from the trail. IF using a tree stand, 30 yards can be used, but 50 is still a good idea. Use a fall arrest system, the most deadliest and dangerous aspect to hunting is going up in a tree.

Never purchase hunting clothes online. Make sure the hunting clothes are comfortable. Scrunch and rub the clothes check how noisy they are. I like those cotton/nylon blended hunter coveralls or if the weather is decent, layers of fleece. Goretex is great, but noisier than heck. I only wear them in bad weather. The same advice goes to gear, anything that rattles, tape it up. Make sure where you rest your gun is padded. IF making your own tree stand, cover stuff up in carpet. I reguarly hunt from a picnic table. I got a piece of carpet to put over the top where I rest my gun. Same goes for your feet. I push away the leaves when I sit by a tree. Cover them back up when done for the day, a deer might think it's a scrape when you leave.

Don't go out opening day without a plan. Go in the woods a couple of times to get and idea of where you want to sit. Staying calm, comfortable, and quiet is the key to deer hunting, not having a gatling gun. If you don't listen to this, then just find the first rub line and sit near it.

Don't walk the deer trails, they can smell you for several hours no matter what you wear, wash with, or spray on you.

Last edited by sailinghudson25; 12-12-2010 at 08:49 AM..
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Old 12-12-2010, 09:35 AM
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m47dragon m47dragon is offline
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Originally Posted by bulrush View Post
I'm in Michigan. I would like to buy a new or used rifle for hunting deer. I am the type of person who focuses on aiming so I don't want to worry about running out of ammo. This means it has to have an external magazine system.
Q. How many rounds of ammunition may I carry in my rifle or shotgun?
If you use a semi-automatic rifle or a semi-automatic shotgun, other than a .22 caliber rifle or smaller caliber rimfire rifle, the firearm cannot be capable of holding more than six rounds in the barrel and magazine combined. This restriction does not apply to bolt-action, lever-action or other firearms that are not semi-automatics.
http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7...5317--,00.html



What are the requirements for buying a rifle in Michigan these days? What questions do they ask you? Worst ticket I got was a traffic ticket in 1989. No other offenses. No taxes due of any kind, no warrants, I'm a straight up law-abiding guy. I understand the rifle must be registered. Does the retailer do that or do I call my local police for forms?

Michigan does not have a long gun registry.

I shot BB guns extensively 20 years ago but haven't shot much since.

What gun would you recommend?
Can you give me a website so I can look at prices and gun features?

Requirements:
- Magazine system.
- Lighter in weight.
- Semi-auto, not bolt-action, not lever action.
- I was thinking around .308 or .30-30. People used to use this for deer years ago.
- Hollow stock would be great to store stuff in.
- Shorter carbine barrel would be nice.
- I'll be buying from a locally owned store.
Remington makes a nice semi-auto .308. You could use a .308 AR with a 5 round magazine. As was previously mentioned, the Ruger Mini-30 is an excellent choice...just hunt with the 5 round magazine. You could also get by with a .30 M1 Carbine.

You must also meet the state Hunter Safety Education requirements...if you've never purchased a license before, you can get an Apprentice License for 2 years before mandatory Hunter Safety is required. Depending on where you will be hunting in the state, rifle type may be a moot point...much of the southern half of the lower peninsula is shotgun/muzzleloader/pisol/archery only...no centerfire rifles for whitetail deer. First and foremost: consult the Michigan hunting regulations.
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Old 12-12-2010, 10:04 AM
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BorntoVenture BorntoVenture is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hungry View Post
Whatever you do, don't buy an ....

SKS, they're the worst rifle in the world

AR, the round is way too small

AK, stamped receivers are junk and milled receivers are too heavy

Mosin, they only cost $75 so they must be terrible

Remington, if you use the safety you'll kill yourself and everyone around you


What a steaming pile of misinformed BS this is.

SKS - Worst rifle in the world? Care to provide just a smidgen of evidence to backup your claims? If you know your SKS rifle it will perform great, if you go pick one up at a pawn shop and think you just bought the "semi-auto AK" then you deserve what you will get when it bump-fires.

AR - Round is too small. That's because there is only one single caliber AR, right? There has never been calibers other that .223/5.56 made for the AR platform, has there? Nope, never.

AK - Again, any proof to your claims?

Mosin Nagant - I just don't know what to say here. Ballistics are very close to .308, accurate to 600yds if you get one with a good barrel, super light recoil with all factory furniture so it can be shot all day long, and of it's one of the cheapest calibers to stock ammo for.

Remington - What did you do, read one post here about a problem they corrected on the 700 decades ago? Yeah, thought so.
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