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Old 08-14-2019, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by NAC/NSW/CAC View Post
A little time spent in third world countries were the rule of law has actually broken down may change your paradigm of what folks actually do to other folks. Time in Srebrenica, Mogadishu, Sarajevo, and other numerous scrums around the globe were there is no vestige of the rule of law might change your opinion of the dangers of districts still within the realm of the rule of law. JMHO.
AHHH,
A change in the playing field.

I have ventured in the past on soil not US of A and I found a good accurate rifle in the appropriate caliber, as in 7.62X51, to be much preferred over any hand gun.
BUT
I still had the 1911 handy for those up close interpersonal communications when language was a difficulty but literal translations were not needed.
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Old 08-14-2019, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NW GUY View Post
AHHH,
A change in the playing field.

I have ventured in the past on soil not US of A and I found a good accurate rifle in the appropriate caliber, as in 7.62X51, to be much preferred over any hand gun.
BUT
I still had the 1911 handy for those up close interpersonal communications when language was a difficulty but literal translations were not needed.
If they couldn't understand M14, what makes you think they understood 1911 any better? LOL.

Yet seriously, at 50 yards there is virtually no difference in my scores with a high grade 1911 and the Glock 21SF.
It is comforting (like shaking hands with an Old Friend) to grasp a 1911, but the Glock 21SF has proven to be it's equal and more. Sacrilege!
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Old 08-14-2019, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by NAC/NSW/CAC View Post
the Glock 21SF has proven to be it's equal and more.
.

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Old 08-14-2019, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NAC/NSW/CAC View Post
It is comforting (like shaking hands with an Old Friend) to grasp a 1911, but the Glock 21SF has proven to be it's equal and more. Sacrilege!
Guess I need to get out more with my 21SF. Now the Gen 4 41; now that is like shaking hands with an old friend. I really like the 41.
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Old 08-14-2019, 08:54 PM
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You guys are funny.......arguing about guns when we all know it's the shooter not the gun. Ever.

+1 for NW GUY
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Old 08-14-2019, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by ForgedInTheFlame View Post
.

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So let's get down to brass tacks shall we?

1911: single action so that every round has the same trigger pull. (Not heavy DA to light SA)
Glock 21SF: Striker fired so every round has the same 4.5 lbs of trigger pull.

PUSH

1911,locked and loaded safety can be swept off while drawing, Glock 21SF locked and loaded no safety sweep required. Sidearms with the safety on aren't going to be effective.

PUSH

My current scores on the 50 yard slow fire (300) unfortunately 280+ with both the 1911 & Glock 21SF. (many more 290 or better when I was a young Warrior. But that was then and this is now.)

PUSH

9 rounds (8+1) with the current S&W E-series 1911, 14 rounds (13+1) with the current Glock 21SF.

Advantage Glock. Just the Brass Tacks.
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Old 08-15-2019, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NAC/NSW/CAC View Post
So let's get down to brass tacks shall we?

1911: single action so that every round has the same trigger pull. (Not heavy DA to light SA)
Glock 21SF: Striker fired so every round has the same 4.5 lbs of trigger pull.

PUSH

1911,locked and loaded safety can be swept off while drawing, Glock 21SF locked and loaded no safety sweep required. Sidearms with the safety on aren't going to be effective.

PUSH

My current scores on the 50 yard slow fire (300) unfortunately 280+ with both the 1911 & Glock 21SF. (many more 290 or better when I was a young Warrior. But that was then and this is now.)

PUSH

9 rounds (8+1) with the current S&W E-series 1911, 14 rounds (13+1) with the current Glock 21SF.

Advantage Glock. Just the Brass Tacks.
WHEN the GLOCK has been around for over 100 years, fought in 2WWs, and hundreds of other large scale confrontations...
AND
Glocks issued over 100 years ago, been through all of that and still serviceable and are running today...
Get back to me.
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Old 08-16-2019, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NW GUY View Post
WHEN the GLOCK has been around for over 100 years, fought in 2WWs, and hundreds of other large scale confrontations...
AND
Glocks issued over 100 years ago, been through all of that and still serviceable and are running today...
Get back to me.
Well, Glock is almost half way there, but it's also been involved in 100's of conflicts over the past 30+years. Wide-scale is actually less important than actual use, and Glocks have a pretty solid reputation in those conflicts, and that doesn't include the number of shooting incidents they've been used in with LE over the past 30 years. Oh, and there are still plenty of original Gen 1 and Gen 2 Glocks still serviceable today. That argument gap is narrowing...

ROCK6
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Old 08-16-2019, 10:08 AM
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Well, Glock is almost half way there, but it's also been involved in 100's of conflicts over the past 30+years. Wide-scale is actually less important than actual use, and Glocks have a pretty solid reputation in those conflicts, and that doesn't include the number of shooting incidents they've been used in with LE over the past 30 years. Oh, and there are still plenty of original Gen 1 and Gen 2 Glocks still serviceable today. That argument gap is narrowing...

ROCK6
YEAH.. but when Glocks hit 100, 1911s will be over 200 and the originals will still be going strong.
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Old 08-16-2019, 05:28 PM
NAC/NSW/CAC NAC/NSW/CAC is offline
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Originally Posted by NW GUY View Post
YEAH.. but when Glocks hit 100, 1911s will be over 200 and the originals will still be going strong.
With both the Armed Forces and Law Enforcement dropping the 1911 in favor of Glocks, once the current Older Generation of 1911 shooters dwindle so shall the popularity of the 1911.

Initial cost and maintenance costs of a 1911 equivalent to .45 ACP Glocks is 2:1.

So back to brass tacks:I'll give replacement springs

PUSH

I'll even give barrel round count replacement.

PUSH

At what round count do you re-stake the plunger tube and have to R&R the internal extractor of your 1911?

Perhaps it's because of the manufacturing gains over the 50 years of thier development? Once again I've got to give the advantage to Glock.
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Old 08-16-2019, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NAC/NSW/CAC View Post
With both the Armed Forces and Law Enforcement dropping the 1911 in favor of Glocks, once the current Older Generation of 1911 shooters dwindle so shall the popularity of the 1911.

Initial cost and maintenance costs of a 1911 equivalent to .45 ACP Glocks is 2:1.

So back to brass tacks:I'll give replacement springs

PUSH

I'll even give barrel round count replacement.

PUSH

At what round count do you re-stake the plunger tube and have to R&R the internal extractor of your 1911?

Perhaps it's because of the manufacturing gains over the 50 years of their development? Once again I've got to give the advantage to Glock.
I SHOT the Commander LW so much (over 75,000 rounds) that I finally had to J&B weld the parts that kept shaking loose from the aluminum frame.

Never had to restake the steel ones.
Replacing the extractor is a 1 minute job so NBD. That is just prudent maintenance.

And

Since the 1911 is soooo unpopular, why is just about everyone making it?
It will still be around killing space aliens as we explore the stars while the only place to find a Glock will be in a museum or on Wikipedia.
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Old 08-17-2019, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NW GUY View Post
I SHOT the Commander LW so much (over 75,000 rounds) that I finally had to J&B weld the parts that kept shaking loose from the aluminum frame.

Never had to restake the steel ones.
Replacing the extractor is a 1 minute job so NBD. That is just prudent maintenance.

And

Since the 1911 is soooo unpopular, why is just about everyone making it?
It will still be around killing space aliens as we explore the stars while the only place to find a Glock will be in a museum or on Wikipedia.

I had a Series 70 that the ejector holes in the frame wallowed out so much they had to be welded and redrilled. That was only after 25,000. (I had a wealthy uncle buying my ammo back then.)
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Old 08-17-2019, 09:06 PM
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I had a Series 70 that the ejector holes in the frame wallowed out so much they had to be welded and redrilled. That was only after 25,000. (I had a wealthy uncle buying my ammo back then.)
I would have loved to have gotten my hands on that. Just to see.
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Old 08-17-2019, 09:51 PM
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I would have loved to have gotten my hands on that. Just to see.
My 1SG had an in with the post AMU armorer who went through it and corrected all the issues it had. 1SG put about 1K GI issue ball through it before he gave it back. It was very accurate and reliable after the work. Eventually he made me an offer for it I couldn't refuse after I received transfer orders for overseas and couldn't take it with me.
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Old 08-18-2019, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDH View Post
My 1SG had an in with the post AMU armorer who went through it and corrected all the issues it had. 1SG put about 1K GI issue ball through it before he gave it back. It was very accurate and reliable after the work. Eventually he made me an offer for it I couldn't refuse after I received transfer orders for overseas and couldn't take it with me.
What did it turn out to be? A heat treat issue? Material defect? Oversize holes?
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Old 08-18-2019, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Jlrhiner View Post
What did it turn out to be? A heat treat issue? Material defect? Oversize holes?
Ejector was loose from the beginning was the best guess. Whether oversize holes or undersized pins on the ejector was never determined. As it was able to move around in the holes the pins got smaller and the holes got bigger until one of the pins finally broke off.
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Old 08-25-2019, 01:39 AM
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Originally Posted by NAC/NSW/CAC View Post
When I started the Navy SV held a S&W revolver (6) S&W .38 Specials, soon thereafter the 1911 (7) .45 ACP, later we were allowed to update to the Glock 21 (13) .45 ACP. The Small Arms qualifications didn't change the entire time. .
I was looking for something else in this thread, when I came upon your post. Glock 21's in use by the US Navy? Fascinating! I had no idea, and I worked with many SEAL's, etc. So I called a good friend, a retired Master Chief with the teams, numerous combat tours, firearms instructor and evaluator, who gained some fame for being on several TV shows as an expert on NSW weapons. And what do you know, he was fascinated too! He'd never heard of the 21 being used by any unit in the Navy either! Matter of fact, even most of the Navy's use of the 9mm Glock 19 (they call it something else), has been fairly recent, since the teams were quite committed to the Sigs for many years.

You most have been in some really super secret squirrel stuff, if a guy with the chest full of ribbons, medals, etc., and experience that he has, is unaware of it.

Thank you for your service.


.
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Old 08-25-2019, 03:34 PM
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The natural feel and point-ability of a 1911 cannot be beat. If you feel more comfortable running a thicker hi-cap, then by all means do so.

Different strokes for different folks.
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Old 08-25-2019, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by HappyinID View Post
I was looking for something else in this thread, when I came upon your post. Glock 21's in use by the US Navy? Fascinating! I had no idea, and I worked with many SEAL's, etc. So I called a good friend, a retired Master Chief with the teams, numerous combat tours, firearms instructor and evaluator, who gained some fame for being on several TV shows as an expert on NSW weapons. And what do you know, he was fascinated too! He'd never heard of the 21 being used by any unit in the Navy either! Matter of fact, even most of the Navy's use of the 9mm Glock 19 (they call it something else), has been fairly recent, since the teams were quite committed to the Sigs for many years.

You most have been in some really super secret squirrel stuff, if a guy with the chest full of ribbons, medals, etc., and experience that he has, is unaware of it.

Thank you for your service.


.
Don't forget Sig P226's, H&K Mk23 Mod 0's, Beretta M9's, S&W Model 66's, S&W 686's, Glock 19's....they've issued a lot of guns, but have never heard of them issuing the Glock 21.

.
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