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Old 08-18-2019, 07:56 PM
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While y'all are chiming in about how much ammo is needed or not needed, a bigger threat is hidden in plain sight.

The media is making a big deal the Philly shooter got off 100 rounds at the police.

To many on this board, that is hardly a range session. But, to the media, it is a lot of ammo to stir up debates on how much ammo a private citizen should own.

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Old 08-18-2019, 08:12 PM
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The average number of shots fired in a self defense situation is 2. Do whatever you want with that info.
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Old 08-18-2019, 08:14 PM
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When Murphys Law is in full effect you're going to need more than two.
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Old 08-19-2019, 07:40 PM
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My opinion:

The only times you have too much ammo are if you're drowning or on fire.

On my person I like to have 150 rounds of rifle ammunition (5.56 in 30 round mags) and 45 rounds of pistol ammunition (9mm in 15 round mags).

The one time I had to use a firearm in the "real world," it was an AR, and I burned through 17 rounds in ~2-3 seconds. For what that's worth.
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Old 08-19-2019, 08:36 PM
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The answer is there is never enough until there is enough.
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Old 08-19-2019, 08:40 PM
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The answer is there is never enough until there is enough.
Perhaps I might interject: The answer is there is never enough until you have to carry it somewhere else?
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Old 08-21-2019, 02:27 PM
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Old 08-21-2019, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Heat View Post
The average number of shots fired in a self defense situation is 2. Do whatever you want with that info.
Well, it's an average. Lady in Florida shot one round and killed a burglar. It took 24 rounds by LE to put down the Dayton Ohio shooter. One was very much an average citizen with really no training as opposed to a bunch of LEOs.

If the average is "two rounds", that likely means I need to have about 10 times that. I typically carry 23 rounds and somehow Mr. Murphy has a way of making me even second guess that.

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Old 08-21-2019, 04:31 PM
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Every time I hear people talk about how much ammo they need to carry and talk about how much is used in an "average" gunfight I always think that's great as long as the gunfight you are involved in is "average". Not that we can't use the data to make an informed decisions, but I know someone who only carries a 5 shot revolver and no extra ammunition because, you know, "statistics, average gunfight, rarely reload, etc". I take the tack that if I am statistically unlikely to need to reload, then one extra magazine is probably enough.

I also like to point out that you are statistically unlikely to need a firearm at all in most places.
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Old 08-21-2019, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by jchavasu View Post
Every time I hear people talk about how much ammo they need to carry and talk about how much is used in an "average" gunfight I always think that's great as long as the gunfight you are involved in is "average". Not that we can't use the data to make an informed decisions, but I know someone who only carries a 5 shot revolver and no extra ammunition because, you know, "statistics, average gunfight, rarely reload, etc". I take the tack that if I am statistically unlikely to need to reload, then one extra magazine is probably enough.

I also like to point out that you are statistically unlikely to need a firearm at all in most places.
If they were being honest, like you said, then they wouldn't carry a gun at all, cause statistically your odds of being in a gunfight are minuscule too. I also wouldn't want to be caught with only 1 magazine if for no other reason than a mag failure, even if I did only need 2 rounds.
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Old 08-21-2019, 06:40 PM
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My analogy of "Average":

Imagine how foolish the average person is? (mind boggling)
Now realize that 50% of all the folks you encounter every day are more foolish than the Average Person, that's how they got to be average............
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Old 08-21-2019, 06:40 PM
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Indeed. Statistically there is no justification to even own a gun. Its a given that those of us who do own guns do so for extreme outlier events.

As for rounds needed....a counterpoint

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout

"Combined, the two men had fired approximately 1,100 rounds in total, while approximately 650 rounds were fired by police"

650 rounds fired by police....two assailants.
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Old 08-25-2019, 06:39 AM
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My grandfather was in the "dodengracht" in Flandren. The Germans were a few yards away.
They were called "vuurkruisers" ("fire crossers") To get there they had to walk on very small wooden constructions over the water. They shot only a few rounds a day. Every round had to be a kill. The change to survive was minimal: diseases,hunger, cold, gas and of course bullits.; The answer was for them : a few rounds will do it.
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Old 08-25-2019, 10:32 AM
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Logistics wins wars more than any tactical planning ever has.

The big difference between winners and losers in combat is the losers always seek to do and have the minimums. The winners have no limits, no bounds. They do what is necessary.
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Old 08-25-2019, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by libertyforall View Post
I was watching the situation in Philadelphia last night and the news commentators were saying the bad actor had shot a huge amount of ammo (100 rounds) and I thought this sounded incredulous that some naive people believe that is a lot. The average person doesn’t have any idea how much a large cache of ammo is defined as. But this got me thinking about how much I should be storing up. I store only for what I believe I will need to defend my position. My range ammo and my plinking ammo I just buy and use and not store up. I’m guessing if you are in a gun battle whereby someone or a group of people are attempting to takeover your position.....if you shoot up about 1,000 rounds, you’ve got yourself in a hell of a firefight. Then I have to ask myself what are the actual chances of that taking place. I know you don’t prep so much for what is going on as much as you prep for what MAY happen. I guess I need to accurately come up with what I feel will get me through SHTF so I have enough resources to purchase prep food and all other necessary items. It’s easy to spend huge amounts on ammo and guns.....you have to save a little money back for the beans and bandaids. I’ve got about 16k of .223 and I feel terribly under-supplied.
I think in a case like this, at the end of the day only you can answer your own questions. This is why:

-As already stated earlier in this thread, most people in gunfights only expend 2-3 shots.

-The odds of you being in a gunfight are very slim.

-The odds of you being in a gunfight where you need more than one mag or cylinder of ammo even more remote.

That being said, I guess at the end of the day you just have to ask yourself "how lucky do I feel?"

A cop I know was in a gunfight last year. He was off duty, outside his home getting the mail and just wearing shorts and a t-shirt, carrying his Glock 43 and no spare mag. I mean, after all, he's just getting the mail, right?

While at his mailbox, away from any cover, he saw two guys breaking into the neighbor's car. Almost at the same moment, they see him. Gunfight ensues. At the end, one suspect was down for the count, the other suspect was shot in the leg. My buddy was out of ammo and only lived because the guy he shot in the leg gave up.

My buddy used to think 6 rounds was plenty to carry off duty, especially in his own yard. You'd better believe he carries more than that now.

I was once in a circumstance where I was up against six assailants. I had plenty of spare mags, but the odds were still against me. In that case I believe the only reason I survived was because I was in a group of three on my side of that particular two-way firing range, and between the three of us, we were better at staying alive than the other six. So sometimes even a lot of ammo still isn't enough on it's own.

You can look at the stats, listen to anecdotes as posted here by myself and others, and you can rely on your own experiences. It's just up to you how much you want to weigh convenience against preparedness.

And in terms of stockpiling against the day when commercial ammo may no longer be available, I guess it's just a question of "how much do I like shooting?", "how much money can I afford to spend on ammo?" and "what is the load bearing capacity of the floorboards in my home?"

As for myself, being on disability I don't have a lot of money for things like guns or ammo, but I do what I can to help make sure my family is protected to the best of my ability.

Good luck answering your questions. It's a tough one for many of us.
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Old 08-25-2019, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by libertyforall View Post
I was watching the situation in Philadelphia last night and the news commentators were saying the bad actor had shot a huge amount of ammo (100 rounds) and I thought this sounded incredulous that some naive people believe that is a lot. The average person doesnít have any idea how much a large cache of ammo is defined as. But this got me thinking about how much I should be storing up. I store only for what I believe I will need to defend my position. My range ammo and my plinking ammo I just buy and use and not store up. Iím guessing if you are in a gun battle whereby someone or a group of people are attempting to takeover your position.....if you shoot up about 1,000 rounds, youíve got yourself in a hell of a firefight. Then I have to ask myself what are the actual chances of that taking place. I know you donít prep so much for what is going on as much as you prep for what MAY happen. I guess I need to accurately come up with what I feel will get me through SHTF so I have enough resources to purchase prep food and all other necessary items. Itís easy to spend huge amounts on ammo and guns.....you have to save a little money back for the beans and bandaids. Iíve got about 16k of .223 and I feel terribly under-supplied.

I only have 1K of .223 and feel I have too much, but then I live in the country and don't expect any firefight with crowds of people. Besides, if I shoot 500 rounds then in a firefight I can expect 500 rounds coming at me and probably would not live through the onslaught. I want to work on prevention instead.
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Old 08-26-2019, 12:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Idaho Survivalist View Post
I only have 1K of .223 and feel I have too much, but then I live in the country and don't expect any firefight with crowds of people. Besides, if I shoot 500 rounds then in a firefight I can expect 500 rounds coming at me and probably would not live through the onslaught. I want to work on prevention instead.
Wow! 1k of .223 is almost a range day for my son and I. I'm not criticizing mind you. Just noticing the vast difference in what we keep around. I'm in a somewhat urban area but still don't see a situation where I would need anywhere near the ammo I keep on hand. I keep it more for convenience. When we want to shoot we go shoot without having to buy more, etc. And I rotate it as well as we use some.
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Old 08-26-2019, 01:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Idaho Survivalist View Post
I only have 1K of .223 and feel I have too much, but then I live in the country and don't expect any firefight with crowds of people. Besides, if I shoot 500 rounds then in a firefight I can expect 500 rounds coming at me and probably would not live through the onslaught. I want to work on prevention instead.
Yeah, that is the other side of the coin. How many gunfights can you survive once SHTF?
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Old 08-26-2019, 01:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Heat View Post
The average number of shots fired in a self defense situation is 2. Do whatever you want with that info.
I will more confidently carry my 5 shot scandium snubby with hot .357 loads.

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Old 08-26-2019, 05:25 AM
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I will more confidently carry my 5 shot scandium snubby with hot .357 loads.

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While I often think more is always better, there's a balance for CCW. I think a 5-shot snubby is fine for about 99% of most defensive situations and realities. That 1% will just make you choose a decision more focused on a speedy and tactical withdrawal. Having a gun and carrying it daily (where legal) is the most important first decision. After that it's more about situational awareness, training and tactical decision making, than it is about caliber or capacity.

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