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Old 08-24-2019, 12:22 PM
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Default Roto Rooter Prostate Surgury



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Scheduled for TURP surgery mid-September
(I hope/pray it helps)

https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-pro...t/pac-20384880
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Old 08-24-2019, 02:50 PM
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Good luck...
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Old 08-24-2019, 03:06 PM
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Ugh . Good luck . I hope it helps and you have no complications.
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Old 08-24-2019, 03:21 PM
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They didn't offer the laser option? That's been around for a couple of decades now.

RR
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Old 08-24-2019, 03:30 PM
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I'll be praying.

My husband required a catheter on a couple of occasions after surgery.
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Old 08-24-2019, 03:55 PM
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Would not wish that on anyone.

I am recovering from kidney stones being blasted in my right Ureter right now. On pain meds, the stent maybe as bad as the stones..

Word of warning about stones and calcification. The Radiologists don't know what they are looking at and they write incomplete reports when it comes to Uretal stones. Since 2014, possibly prior, I have had several large stones, including now two 6.5 and 5.5 mm masses. Despite having three CAT scans and many KUBs my now EX urologist failed to perform a CT uro without and with contrast. The Urologist simply read the radiology reports and did not look closer as I did, at stones in the path. This Urologist was rude and dismissive. I now have a new Urologist and he had me on another KUB and an Ultrasound. I looked at the KUB and found they ignored all the stones including 6.5 mm at the UVJ. I pointed this out to my new Urologist and he ordered a CT URO without and with contrast (10 minute interval) . The radiologist only reported the big stone at the UVJ. I looked at the images myself and found 3 more stones including the 5.5 mm midway up the uterer. I alerted him prior to surgery and he cleaned me out up to my kidney, which is another story because I have several stones lodged there.

The bottom line:
Ignorance and negligence by two different radiologists and my prior Urologist cost me pain and suffering for 5 years, unneeded CT radiation exposure for misread, improper CT modalities. Slow flow from right kidney leading to more stones, untold additional workup by PCP and Gastro for pain in RLQ. And more importantly, possible failure of my right kidney.

I am not a doctor, I had to figure this all out on my own because the system is failed. Radiologists have apparently no instruction on kidney stones other than counting what is in your kidney or bladder. Duh.

Doctors, and Urologists rely 100% on the radiologists report, if it is flawed and you have a rude indifferent , rushed urologist like I did before you are sunk. You need to look at the imaging yourself and understand your anatomy.

In my case, I would have lost a kidney if I had not been a persistent SOB. My wife said the nurses in the surgery wanted to know what field of medicine I specialized in while I was wheeled out to go under the laser. She told them I fix radios!

I don't know that this applies to you, Mayo is a wonderful place to get an opinion from a team. But if you have low flow and pain, it could be your prostate, it could be your bladder, and it could be stones up stream that are being missed. You need to eliminate all possibilities before doing anything radical.

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Old 08-24-2019, 05:45 PM
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TURP's suck, sorry that's your option.

It's going to be, uncomfortable... You'll have a post op catheter. Removing that could be... not fun. Sorry. Hopefully you are in the minority that doesn't have that issue.

Got to say this, though. Laser, cryo, there are other ways to do this. Have you gotten a second opinion?
Seriously. If you haven't, do so. Never get any invasive procedure without at least two opinions.
People will look at fifteen TV's, or computer printers, or cars, or whatever... but they'll take the first option on someone cutting into them...
It may be that the first opinion is exactly right and what you need. So at very least you are confirming that. Confidence is a good thing, esp when it comes to your health.

Not bashing you OP, not at all. It's just one of the things I see in healthcare that really bugs me.
You get docs that are comfortable with a certain technique, so they default to that. Good news there is that they usually know it well and have good results. Or, it could be based on the support they have where they practice. Lot's of things.
BUT... there are other docs that know other techniques that may be better for the patient. Remember, docs are usually doing what is easiest/best for them.

Anyway, good luck with your surgery OP. I hope you heal quickly and fully. Do follow aftercare instructions, this is one place you don't want to have complications.
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Old 08-24-2019, 06:07 PM
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We will certainly be rooting for you Bunkerbuster !!!
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Old 08-24-2019, 07:00 PM
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TURP is the old procedure. Greenlight laser is newer.

There is also a very new option that uses cold to freeze the tissue. That can be done in the doctor's office. I talked to one guy who had this done. He said there were no side effects.

My dad did TURP. I don't want to scare you, but he said the most painful moment in his life was when he had to pee the first time after the procedure.

I did the greenlight. There was no real pain afterward, but there was blood for several weeks. I took one painkiller when I removed the catheter, but never took another.

Any way you go, it will help you pee better and will get you off the meds that do have side effects.

Good luck, man.
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Old 08-24-2019, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Central Scrutinizer View Post
Doctors, and Urologists rely 100% on the radiologists report, if it is flawed and you have a rude indifferent , rushed urologist like I did before you are sunk. You need to look at the imaging yourself and understand your anatomy.
Yours would be an unusual case to say the least. I have been viewing x-rays on/off for 40 years and dare say I would have missed stones. But then I am not a radiologist or even a radiology tech.

Doctors, etc range from good to mediocre to just plain run-away-from-them bad. I have seen more than my share of both, and our best experience was with a PA who knew when to admit that he might not know.

Knowing when to walk away and go elsewhere - as you did - can pay major dividends. Not everyone has the opportunity to self-educate as you were able to.

RR
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Old 08-24-2019, 08:38 PM
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BB, is this a side effect from the cancer? My brother had issues with his prostate after prostate cancer treatment. How are you feeling? I hope you are doing better overall.
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Old 08-24-2019, 08:39 PM
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One problem in communicating with a medical professional is that they may first assume I am as ignorant as their last patient. But on the other hand I have had professionals ask my wife after I left the room if I was in the profession. I lost my wife a couple of years ago but would have lost her earlier had I not been a demanding advocate.
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Old 08-24-2019, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reasonable Rascal View Post
Yours would be an unusual case to say the least. I have been viewing x-rays on/off for 40 years and dare say I would have missed stones. But then I am not a radiologist or even a radiology tech.



Doctors, etc range from good to mediocre to just plain run-away-from-them bad. I have seen more than my share of both, and our best experience was with a PA who knew when to admit that he might not know.



Knowing when to walk away and go elsewhere - as you did - can pay major dividends. Not everyone has the opportunity to self-educate as you were able to.



RR
Ok would hope mine was unusual, but my abdominal CT's were read by different radiologists and always reviewed by a second one. In each case they picked up on the stones inside the kidneys but all with one exception missed the stones following the Uretal tract.

The gold standard is the CT Uro wo/with contrast. The one I had done had a 3D rendering of the kidneys, ureters and bladder. What is missing in that is that the contrast media washes out the stones in the swollen ureter. You must then follow the tract on the images without contrast painstakingly, to find and count the other stones. This could be fixed with software to use the XYZ coordinates of the illuminated 3D path to match the calcifications whose XYZ coincide with the Uretal tract and then link them like a chain of beads from the bladder to kidney in another view. (Patentable idea maybe).


Another annoying aside. In the 3D rendering my left ureter is entirely missing. I panic a bit. Parestalisis of the entire ureter at that moment is probably (hopefully) the culprit. The kidney looks OK otherwise. I did drink a lot of water and my belly probably under a lot of hydrostatic pressure. I asked the doc to check the jets. He gave my wife a positive report while I was out. Something to discuss next week.

You would think that with all the high tech, the machine would somehow pause until both ureters are sufficiently opaque. Too many X rays for me, I am not going for a CT again soon.

So this situation includes the following.

My 40 years of kidney stone production.

My being an obstinate SOB.

A complacent, indifferent, dismissive and rude god like urologist (who everyone admires) who would not take 5 minutes to look at a CT image. I ran away after 12 years of this abuse.

Radiology tech which is useless for Uretal imaging, KUB without contrast, worthless. CT abdomen likewise worthless. The stones light up but their is no anatomical reference point.

CT Uro wo/with contrast is the best but has technology drawbacks I pointed out above. And the xray exposure is 2 to 3 times higher also.

Finally the radiologists who review the images are a weak point. They are reviewing these images in minutes when it could take much longer. They are apparently clueless about urinary system stone disease. The organizations farm this work out to God knows who or where. The last ones I had done, had a phone number for patients to call if they had questions. In reality they want you to have your doctor deal with them. If you have a doctor like my first you are doomed. I called the radiology department and was told. 1) they don't have members on staff with the names on my report, 2 ) they don't have a Head of Radiology Department. So I will be writing the state about that.

I have been dealing with this for 5 years, retracing the various CT discs I have collected show these same stones have been in my ureter from then. Back in 2012 I had a laser surgery to clean my kidney and my then god like doctor said I had a stone that didn't come out and told me to have my wife beat on my kidney. Imagine that! That stone is probably the one that got this mess started.

To think of all the pain I have endured over this and the prospect of losing a kidney.

Thankfully my new doctor takes time to listen as does his partner. I might have earned some street cred with them for finding the additional stones above the UVJ blockage.

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Old 08-24-2019, 10:25 PM
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BB definately get a second or third opinion from top to bottom of the entire urinary tract. Much of the pain is referred pain. I have had pain in my ureter that had me blaming my prostate. Then a week later I think my appendix is going to burst. The nerves are very interconnected.

I was running from my PCP, to Gastro, to URO and getting no answers. It has been debilitating and causing a more sedentary lifestyle.

Now I find I had tolerated what had become a nearly complete blockage of my right ureter because of one doctor's incompetence. In another month, I would have been in the ER with a failed kidney. All over some rocks.

TURP is something you cannot reverse. Make sure you don't have something else going on. If it is a kidney stone lodged somewhere, that is easily fixed.

I find when you get to a certain age, they want to automatically blame your prostate. It is like the new frontier of medicine.

I could be wrong, but my experience of the last two weeks has been eye opening.

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Old 08-25-2019, 04:55 AM
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None of the doctors are sure what is causing my prostate issue, other than prostates tend to enlarge with age & I am 72 & will be 73 shortly. For some reason, my prostate will only allow my bladder to empty about 30% of my bladder content.

Which is a giant PITA, as it makes me feel like I have to urinate almost continuously & wakes me up to pee about every hour, all night long.

I can empty my bladder by catheterizing, then go several hours without the urge to pee. That's what I do, before going out to the store shopping, or anywhere else where I will be away from home a few hours & before going to bed, so I can get a few hours decent uninterrupted sleep. If it wakes me up after a few hours, I cath again & get a few more hours sleep.

It's manageable as-is. But, I would prefer to urinate normally, and completely empty my bladder - when doing so.

The doctors feel minor TURP, will resolve the issue.

I realize after the operation, I will have to wear a Foley type non-removable catheter & leg bag for a few days, possibly a week or more until my prostate heals, then have the Foley catheter removed.

Hopefully, once all done I will have normal bladder control.
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Old 08-25-2019, 05:04 AM
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Have you tried BPH medication?

By 30% you mean they measured somehow? Because with my stones I had pain and urge to go every 45 minutes. I would pee just a little and then come back full circle.

Just saying, get 2nd and third opinion if you have not already.

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Old 08-25-2019, 08:36 AM
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My husband always liked having a catheter after various surgeries: he didn't have to get up, to pee. It was also a lot easier to track his output.

He currently uses a couple of juice bottles as urinals and that solves most of the problem. But emptying those things is not a job for the weak.

I would have tried pygeum and pumpkin seed oil if he ever mentioned an issue. About 20 years ago he had some issues and Saw Palmetto worked very well for him. He always called it "Sal" Palmetto though.
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Old 08-25-2019, 08:42 AM
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If you haven't tried Saw Palmetto and Pygeum, I would suggest giving that a try first.

https://www.amazon.com/Havasu-Nutrit...ustomerReviews



Then I would do the laser and not the older technique.
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Old 08-25-2019, 11:23 AM
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Thank you guys for being so open about these health issues as I think it is helpful for others to learn from, rather than avoidance and ignorance that could allow a condition to get progressively worse .
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Old 08-25-2019, 11:52 AM
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I had that surgery.

On the one hand it wasn't fun and there were minor complications afterwards. The catheters were a first rate inconvenience.

On the other hand the problem was resolved and that is great. Peeing is such a normal everyday thing you don't give it any thought at all. When you can't that is actually a very serious problem.

One known side effect happens in sex. Normally, for men, at the end of sex there is an ejaculation. But after surgery that fluid may flow backwards into your bladder and you may not experience an ejaculation even though you can clearly feel your prostate "firing." Not to worry, after you pee again you will see more bubbles and "froth." It is very strange but not a serious medical problem.

Good luck to you.
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