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Old 02-12-2020, 03:42 PM
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AK103K AK103K is offline
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Point and shoot is treating the handgun as an extension of the arm and hand. I am trying to think of a way to practice without firing. Maybe a chambered laser that I activate after pointing or a mounted laser that I activate after dry firing.
So is aimed fire. Its that repetitive practice that translates to point shooting, even if it doesnt seem like it would.

Your brain sees everything when you shoot, not just the sights.

There are also more than one way to point shoot. Its not just from the hip, like the cowboys always do, not that that cant be effective if you work at it. I find that from the nipples up to just looking over the sights to be the most effective and natural. Both with one and two-handed shooting.

The best way to learn/verify point shooting is to do it with live ammo, until you start to get it down. If youre accustomed to drawing and shooting using the sights, and have a good base doing so, I think youll find it comes pretty quick too.

The Applegate stuff, while "old school", is still very effective and relevant. Well worth the read and try.

One way you can prove things work is, look at a target across the room, and present the gun using the sights. Now, do it again, but this time, close your eyes as you present the gun. When it comes up and stops, open your eyes and look at where the sights are aligned. I think youll find youre very close, if not right on.

Do the same thing, this time below your line of sight, at roughly nipple height, and then lower your head and look at the sights once the gun is presented.
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Old 02-12-2020, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AK103K View Post
So is aimed fire. Its that repetitive practice that translates to point shooting, even if it doesnt seem like it would.

Your brain sees everything when you shoot, not just the sights.

There are also more than one way to point shoot. Its not just from the hip, like the cowboys always do, not that that cant be effective if you work at it. I find that from the nipples up to just looking over the sights to be the most effective and natural. Both with one and two-handed shooting.

The best way to learn/verify point shooting is to do it with live ammo, until you start to get it down. If youre accustomed to drawing and shooting using the sights, and have a good base doing so, I think youll find it comes pretty quick too.

The Applegate stuff, while "old school", is still very effective and relevant. Well worth the read and try.

One way you can prove things work is, look at a target across the room, and present the gun using the sights. Now, do it again, but this time, close your eyes as you present the gun. When it comes up and stops, open your eyes and look at where the sights are aligned. I think youll find youre very close, if not right on.

Do the same thing, this time below your line of sight, at roughly nipple height, and then lower your head and look at the sights once the gun is presented.
Good points! My rationale is a method to hone skills while sitting or walking in my environment (rather than an unrelated environment).
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Old 02-12-2020, 05:53 PM
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My J frames are a defensive weapon. I’ve had some very good trainers. They drilled me on close to body draw, drop the elbow, rip one off while holding the revolver close to my hip, hitting the perp in the torso and I step back firing from low ready, stepping latterly and back drilling a third and or forth shot from a combat stance and keep moving. Drop one more round in the perp behind cover and speed load or moon clip reload.

One can stand and pump holes in paper and all, including me should put lots of rounds down range. But until I found local trainers who understood J frame revolvers, I always thought I had to hit a quarter at 25 yards.

So have at it and stay safe.

Btw, if the zombies come, I still will pack out with a J frame, but that Glock w (8) 17 rounds loaded mags and the Ar with (8) loaded mags will be the front line brain pan cleaner. Just saying.
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Old 02-12-2020, 07:02 PM
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My 5 round 38 spl is a Rossi w/4" barrel. How does one determine model number?

edit: I may have found it. With the crane swung out I see a M31 stamped on the frame.
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Old 02-13-2020, 06:50 AM
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I think the idea of hitting a small target like a gong, while nice to achieve, has become too much of a qualifier in our minds. My daughter in law only expressed interest in shooting my son's 5 shooter one time. I knew she wasn't likely to ever ask again, she just isn't a gun person.

I made sure she knew how to operate it, not to hard with a revolver. Then I had her shoot at an old 30 gallon barrel(about the size of a human) from 3 to 5 yards. NO LECTURES ABOUT SIGHTS OR TRIGGER CONTROL ETC, just point it and pull the trigger.

I think all of her bullets hit the barrel and she was close enough to see it happen. IN MY MIND WE WERE SUCCESSFUL. Now she knows she can grab the gun and defend herself and her family in 99% of the scenerios she might need to.

In the rare case where distances are beyond her capability, there is always the scare factor.
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Old 02-16-2020, 02:15 PM
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about 10 yards away I'm about 5 for 5 on a target that is 12in x 6 in.

I think I just needed to work on the shooting fundamentals a little bit more.
an extra slow trigger pull did the trick.

I noticed that there was a significant "wall" whenever you pulled the trigger right before the hammer falls (just like a glock). but there is actually a little bit more travel right after you hit the "wall". I guess noticing that little bit of travel made the difference.

now I just need to work on pulling the trigger more rapidly.

I'm trying to shoot about a 50 round box every weekend.
and dry firing (with snapcaps) many times throughout the week whenever I get an itchy finger.

I'm sticking with speed strips and I don't plan on purchasing any speed loaders.

Thanks for yall's help.
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Old 02-16-2020, 05:07 PM
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The trick is to focus on the sights, and holding the alignment during the stroke.

Once you stop worrying about what the trigger is doing and put all your focus on holding the sight alignment, things will start to come together.

Another thing that you want to avoid, and for a lot of people, is sort of a by-product of shooting light, single-action triggers, is "snatching" the trigger, instead of smoothly "stroking" it.

You need to be more deliberate (as opposed to impulsive) with the trigger and have that smooth control through the stroke as you focus on the sights. And again, your main focus is the sights, not the trigger and anything going on with it. All your focus and effort is on that sight alignment focus and holding it.

Once you get used to seeing those sights aligned and steady as you stroke the trigger, if you shift your focus to the trigger while you are stroking it, youre going to find, its not a steady and constant thing either, and your brain adjusts things as needed as you go. It might be slow, medium or fast, or a combination of all of them, but the one constant is "smooth".

Slow and steady right through fast and steady and anything in between as its needed. What you wont see, or shouldnt see is, the urge to snatch the trigger and the sights moving off target as you stroke it. If youre seeing that, youre thinking about the trigger, and not the sights.
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Old 02-16-2020, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloth View Post

I noticed that there was a significant "wall" whenever you pulled the trigger right before the hammer falls (just like a glock). but there is actually a little bit more travel right after you hit the "wall". I guess noticing that little bit of travel made the difference.

.
What you are doing is called staging the trigger and doesn't work well. You always jerk that last little bit. Also in combat are you going to have all your mind on what your trigger finger is telling you???

When I started LE training I had been shooting a DA revolver since I was in high school and was pretty good at shooting wabbits in the head, but it was all SA shooting. I couldn't shoot DA for crap, especially with time limits. I finally started listening to the instructors about just one long steady pull. Yup,, the sights are wobbling all aver the place, but you don't JERK that last little bit.
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Old 02-17-2020, 07:54 AM
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Once you build your muscle tone, and get accustomed to the added pressure needed and the cadence of the trigger down, youre going to find that your sights are just as solid and steady as they are when you are shooting the gun in SA.

Thats a big part of dry fire too. I practice with at least one DA revolver every day, and slow or fast, those sights are rock solid and arent moving as I stroke the trigger.
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Old 02-17-2020, 07:47 PM
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I have a S&W 649 that I love. I carried it for years asanoff duty gun. In my state we have to shoot a qualfication course just like our duty gun from 1 to25 yards. i had to do alot of dry fire and live fire to get good with the little snubbie. The gun was great and very concealable. Unfortunately age caught up with me and it became harder and harder to see the front sight , so Ihad to move toa different off duty gun.
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Old 02-17-2020, 11:53 PM
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Which snap caps are best. My Security Six is supposedly OK for dry firing but I worry about the Rossi M31. I suppose it night be a good idea to use them in the SS as well.
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Old 02-18-2020, 07:45 AM
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I use A Zoom's these days. They seem to hold up the best.

The "spring loaded" brass and red plastic type never seemed to last for me.

I think most guns these days are probably safe to dryfire. I mostly use the snap caps as an added safety thing, as you cant have a live round in the gun if you put a snap cap in there.

A speed loader full of them works great for revolver reload practice too.
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Old 02-18-2020, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AK103K View Post
So is aimed fire. Its that repetitive practice that translates to point shooting, even if it doesnt seem like it would.

Your brain sees everything when you shoot, not just the sights.

There are also more than one way to point shoot. Its not just from the hip, like the cowboys always do, not that that cant be effective if you work at it. I find that from the nipples up to just looking over the sights to be the most effective and natural. Both with one and two-handed shooting.

The best way to learn/verify point shooting is to do it with live ammo, until you start to get it down. If youre accustomed to drawing and shooting using the sights, and have a good base doing so, I think youll find it comes pretty quick too.

The Applegate stuff, while "old school", is still very effective and relevant. Well worth the read and try.

One way you can prove things work is, look at a target across the room, and present the gun using the sights. Now, do it again, but this time, close your eyes as you present the gun. When it comes up and stops, open your eyes and look at where the sights are aligned. I think youll find youre very close, if not right on.

Do the same thing, this time below your line of sight, at roughly nipple height, and then lower your head and look at the sights once the gun is presented.
Thinking back to throwing rocks, shooting slingshots and BB guns I see some of what you're saying in each application.

I have been practicing in my easy chair while watching TV first without a weapon. I am simulating a cross draw as that requires the least arm unfolding, also my Rossi M31 is tucked in on that side. I am getting better on straight from shoulder to pointed index finger extension to a lamp in another room (approx 35ft) both with eyes open and shut. I have been doing this randomly a few times per day for a couple of days . Today I tried it with the Rossi and was amazed at how close I was when I checked the sights.

Of course I won't be able to check it with live firing short of a real threat, however I see where practice makes it easier to quickly get straight arm and hand extension with little thought.
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Old 02-19-2020, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie_T View Post
Which snap caps are best. My Security Six is supposedly OK for dry firing but I worry about the Rossi M31. I suppose it night be a good idea to use them in the SS as well.
I use the a-zoom kind they seem to work pretty well. I don't know if they are the best or not though...

I used to not think twice about dry firing until I was doing it one day and the tip of my dads firing pin on his beretta bobcat snapped off and flew out of the barrel...
I replaced the firing pin but dry firing now freaks me out a little bit.
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Old 04-30-2020, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AK103K View Post
Once you build your muscle tone, and get accustomed to the added pressure needed and the cadence of the trigger down, youre going to find that your sights are just as solid and steady as they are when you are shooting the gun in SA.

Thats a big part of dry fire too. I practice with at least one DA revolver every day, and slow or fast, those sights are rock solid and arent moving as I stroke the trigger.
glad you mentioned dry fire. im not an expert but think its very important if you carry a da revolver. I wipe down my pocket carry jframe every week, and spend some time dry firing and drawing and firing, while empty. i certainly dry fire much more often than live fire.
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