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Old 11-11-2019, 08:35 PM
PurpleKitty PurpleKitty is online now
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Default Fake service dogs



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The era of the service dog is ending, I believe.

Why? Too many selfish people taking their pets out, abusing the ADA and saying "He's a service dog and you can't make me prove it".

Then bad behavior... and they all get a bad reputation.

A good example, the paratransit driver and I were talking about clients who take advantage, today. She said a woman had a "service" dog with her in the vehicle, it crapped everywhere and behaved very badly.

"That's not a service dog" she said. But they were still forced to transport it because the woman said it was.

When the driver reported it dispatch told her to clean it up and keep driving.
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Old 11-11-2019, 08:47 PM
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How do you know when it's a service dog and when it isn't?

Also, why can you not be asked to prove it? Was some vet snowflake cuck offended? I don't get offended if I need to prove my veteran status, but I will give you a hard time about asking me if I feel it's not legal to do so, and have lost employment opportunities because I was once asked for my dd214 for a non gov job. I was like, yea, no.

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Old 11-11-2019, 09:05 PM
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Unfortunately, the proof often comes after-the-fact. If you exclude the animal and you get sued under the ADA later, it was probably a service animal.

Many people think their emotional support animal is a service animal, it isn't.
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Old 11-11-2019, 09:09 PM
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According to the ADA you cannot "make" someone "prove" it is a service dog. They don't even have standardized training.

And you can take any dog and say it is a service dog, and providers (like paratransit) have to respect that, not ask questions, and serve you. If the dog is behaving badly or has an accident they can ask it to leave, I believe, but in this case they simply told THE DRIVER to clean the feces up and the client and the dog got to keep riding. The drivers, collectively, are very unhappy with the edict.

But the driver said it best "A service dog don't mess, and acts right". That said it all. This dog soiled the cab and did not act appropriately. Many dogs are apparently riding and behaving badly... which leads me to think we could see a ban in the future on ALL service animals.

And I know there are a lot of valuable service animals. Guide dogs, physical assistance animals (my husband could use one), seizure dogs, blood sugar dogs. Even therapy dogs for those with mental issues.

But "my cousin gave me this mutt and I'm going to drag it around everywhere even though it ain't house broke" - NOPE.
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Old 11-11-2019, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ForgedInTheFlame View Post
How do you know when it's a service dog and when it isn't?

Legally, a service dog is a service dog when the owner says it is.

Also, why can you not be asked to prove it? Main reason is because it is the law. I have never been able to find a reason for it but you cant ask because it is the law. Was some vet snowflake cuck offended? I don't get offended if I need to prove my veteran status, but I will give you a hard time about asking me if I feel it's not legal to do so, and have lost employment opportunities because I was once asked for my dd214 for a non gov job. I was like, yea, no.

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There are two questions a business may ask about a service dog.

From https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html

Q7. What questions can a covered entity's employees ask to determine if a dog is a service animal?
A. In situations where it is not obvious that the dog is a service animal, staff may ask only two specific questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability? and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform? Staff are not allowed to request any documentation for the dog, require that the dog demonstrate its task, or inquire about the nature of the person's disability.


This does not mean that the dogs or the owners get free reign to do anything they want.

Q28. What can my staff do when a service animal is being disruptive?
A. If a service animal is out of control and the handler does not take effective action to control it, staff may request that the animal be removed from the premises.
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Old 11-11-2019, 09:28 PM
dealfinder500 dealfinder500 is offline
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Now let me preface this by saying I don't know much about service animals.

But shouldn't there be some kind of registration or something you'd have, like how you'd have a thing to hang in the rear view mirror for handicapped parking?

I mean really, why not have an ID card of sorts for the animal? I assume they have to be registered through some agency to be a service animal, correct? And then you could list the kind of animal, breed, Date of birth or approximate, and that it is a service animal for John Smith. It could even be affixed to the animal's collar.

And then if someone wants to claim that an animal is a service animal, the place of business can request to see the ID.

Are emotional support animals registered? Perhaps a completely different card for them - making it clear that it's an emotional support animal and not a service animal.

My cousin's husband worked the night shift at Walmart years ago. He had stories to tell! They had a lady who'd bring in a monkey, and I think he said they could ask her if it was a service animal, and as long as she said yes that was the end of it. They were not allowed to ask for proof or anything.

That is the thing I don't get... why would people be so offended upon asking to proof it? I mean, honestly, if I had a service animal, I would be happy to proof to someone that it is a real service animal and I'm not gaming the system.
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Old 11-11-2019, 09:32 PM
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Another thing to take note of is there are differences:

Service Dogs are covered by the ADA. This gives them a protected status but as hawk pointed out, there are limits.

Emotional Support Dogs are covered by the Air Carriers act. This basically gives them a free airplane ride with their handler. There is also a law about housing, basically they are exempt from the "no pets" rule. Neither of these give them the ADA protected status of a Service Dog though.

Therapy Dogs are not covered by law.

I have seen plenty of people pimping the Emotional Support Dog as a Service Dog, but it is not the same thing. Unfortunately, standing in front of a Judge for a day to prove your point is usually not good for business so many owners just let it go. If business owners stood in mass against it, we would likely see the abuse end.
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Old 11-11-2019, 09:41 PM
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I HAVE a great and well trained dog.
Can turn him on and off like a light switch.
Would love to travel with him,
but
I would imagine the airlines would want me to buy a 3 seat block to take him with me. He is only a 150lbs
He is a Rotty. But would love to see the look on their faces.
The old joke,
"where would he sit?
Anywhere he wants to.
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Old 11-11-2019, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cannonfoddertfc View Post
Another thing to take note of is there are differences:

Service Dogs are covered by the ADA. This gives them a protected status but as hawk pointed out, there are limits.

Emotional Support Dogs are covered by the Air Carriers act. This basically gives them a free airplane ride with their handler. There is also a law about housing, basically they are exempt from the "no pets" rule. Neither of these give them the ADA protected status of a Service Dog though.

Therapy Dogs are not covered by law.

I have seen plenty of people pimping the Emotional Support Dog as a Service Dog, but it is not the same thing. Unfortunately, standing in front of a Judge for a day to prove your point is usually not good for business so many owners just let it go. If business owners stood in mass against it, we would likely see the abuse end.
You are correct. Therapy or emotional support animals are not service animals. However, since it is illegal to ask about a service animal, emotional support animals and therapy animals fall under the same rules, basically because of a loophole. After all, how is someone supposed to prove that the animal isnt a service animal if they cant ask if they are one. Not to mention that no documentional or official training is needed for one.
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Old 11-11-2019, 11:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawk55732 View Post
There are two questions a business may ask about a service dog.



From https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html



Q7. What questions can a covered entity's employees ask to determine if a dog is a service animal?

A. In situations where it is not obvious that the dog is a service animal, staff may ask only two specific questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability? and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform? Staff are not allowed to request any documentation for the dog, require that the dog demonstrate its task, or inquire about the nature of the person's disability.





This does not mean that the dogs or the owners get free reign to do anything they want.



Q28. What can my staff do when a service animal is being disruptive?

A. If a service animal is out of control and the handler does not take effective action to control it, staff may request that the animal be removed from the premises.
I already know it is illegal to ask, thus my second question in my post, and my assumption that some cuck pog got their feelings hurt. That law sucks imo.

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Old 11-11-2019, 11:07 PM
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At some point, it only makes sense to provide proof that you have an actual service animal, simply to avoid the bad rep of the fakes.

The ADA needs to get over themselves and make that a thing, to avoid abuse and loss of the privilege.
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Old 11-11-2019, 11:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NW GUY View Post
I HAVE a great and well trained dog.
Can turn him on and off like a light switch.
Would love to travel with him,
but
I would imagine the airlines would want me to buy a 3 seat block to take him with me. He is only a 150lbs
He is a Rotty. But would love to see the look on their faces.
The old joke,
"where would he sit?
Anywhere he wants to.
Friend of mine did it with her GSD and does it with her Dane now no charge for the dog handler and dog are one entity. They request the bulkhead seats the GSD hated flying she would curl up under the seat (125 lbs) and sleep the entire trip. The Dane sleeps along the bulkhead.
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Old 11-12-2019, 12:01 AM
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An acquaintance breeds and trains real service dogs. German shepherds. She says shepherds and belgian malinoix are the only dogs which have the right temperament and intelligence for the job. Training to get certified is intense and lengthy, so the cost to the person acquiring one is steep. When outside the home, the trained dogs wear a vest identifying them as service dogs. I expect she would tell you that a dog without the vest isn't a service dog.

My $0.02
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Old 11-12-2019, 02:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Old Coach View Post
An acquaintance breeds and trains real service dogs. German shepherds. She says shepherds and belgian malinoix are the only dogs which have the right temperament and intelligence for the job. Training to get certified is intense and lengthy, so the cost to the person acquiring one is steep. When outside the home, the trained dogs wear a vest identifying them as service dogs. I expect she would tell you that a dog without the vest isn't a service dog.

My $0.02
Problem is any one can (and do) but those vests.

I've known several people who "faked it".... Note: known. As I think it told me much about the person.

you can tell which ones arent, as discussed... REAL service dogs are more like a remote controlled dog. If it's acting out ,98% chance it's a fake.

But as was said: not worth the bad press/issue for a business.
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Old 11-12-2019, 02:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawk55732 View Post
There are two questions a business may ask about a service dog.

From https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html

Q7. What questions can a covered entity's employees ask to determine if a dog is a service animal?
A. In situations where it is not obvious that the dog is a service animal, staff may ask only two specific questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability? and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform? Staff are not allowed to request any documentation for the dog, require that the dog demonstrate its task, or inquire about the nature of the person's disability.


This does not mean that the dogs or the owners get free reign to do anything they want.

Q28. What can my staff do when a service animal is being disruptive?
A. If a service animal is out of control and the handler does not take effective action to control it, staff may request that the animal be removed from the premises.
A poster is hanging in our staff room in the ER where I work. It has that same info. I know that if itís an actual service dog, or if itís not, if itís disruptive I can make it leave. Easy enough.
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Old 11-12-2019, 03:27 AM
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I ran into this discussion a few years ago when I wanted to fly my dogs with me to my new home here in Hungary, several people told me to claim they were service animals because I am disabled. There are or at least were back then sites selling credentials for "service dogs" I declined because at best if an airline allowed me a service dog that would have only covered one of my 2 dogs and I knew that it would likely be considered abusive anyway and although I am handicapped I am not that handicapped. I wound up just biting the bullet and spending the almost $4000 USD to fly them from Dallas to Budapest. It was worth it to make sure my pets continued to be with their human.
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Old 11-12-2019, 04:34 AM
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I saw the show recently, and she made me think about it. In the past, when the breeds of service or combat dogs just appeared, they were stronger and healthier genetically. Nowadays, most of the dogs we think of as pure blood, sicker from birth, much weaker than before and more susceptible to disease. It seems to me that the obvious solution is to make a new selection that will give a healthy and strong breed.
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Old 11-12-2019, 04:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ForgedInTheFlame View Post
I already know it is illegal to ask, thus my second question in my post, and my assumption that some cuck pog got their feelings hurt. That law sucks imo.

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It's not just military who have these. In fact I have ran into many more civilians then military who have had emotional support animals.
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Old 11-12-2019, 05:34 AM
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First people needing a service dog should be required to wear a handicap tag around their neck with a picture similar to those for handicap parking spaces.

Second the dog should wear a special vest for service doge.

Only doctors could handout the tag for the person and vets for the dog.

To get a vest for the dog it should be required to have all its shots and successfully completed training at a licensed vet.
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Old 11-12-2019, 06:48 AM
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Leave it to the idiots in life to ruin a good thing for those that actually need service dogs!
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