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Old 11-13-2019, 09:47 PM
PalmettoTree PalmettoTree is offline
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My preps follow my instructions or go your own way. That is what I say to family. No one else is invited regardless. Families take care of their own. So long as I am the one doing the taking care of and providing what I say goes. (That does not mean I will not and do not listen.) No good decisions come out of committee. Committees are for ideas not decisions.
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Old 11-18-2019, 11:53 AM
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My preps follow my instructions or go your own way. That is what I say to family. No one else is invited regardless. Families take care of their own. So long as I am the one doing the taking care of and providing what I say goes. (That does not mean I will not and do not listen.) No good decisions come out of committee. Committees are for ideas not decisions.
I tend to agree. Family or the very closest friends. The relationship you can hope to have with strangers would be "don't bite the hand that feeds" but when things get real tough, you may expect them to bite, or disappear in the night with as much of your valuable tools or supplies as they could carry away. Family is going to stick together where others wouldn't. And if you're the patriarch, or you have a few reliable quick-thinking patriarchs together, you can run things smoothly enough to get things done.
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Old 11-18-2019, 12:59 PM
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I tend to agree. Family or the very closest friends. The relationship you can hope to have with strangers would be "don't bite the hand that feeds" but when things get real tough, you may expect them to bite, or disappear in the night with as much of your valuable tools or supplies as they could carry away. Family is going to stick together where others wouldn't. And if you're the patriarch, or you have a few reliable quick-thinking patriarchs together, you can run things smoothly enough to get things done.
We agree. It could be a tough choice. In local emergencies we tend to help all. We cannot know if what we think is a local temperary emergency will in fact be a SHTF.

I was reading about Noah today. It struck me that God told hime to include himself and his family and their wives but no one else.

I am not saying that is how we should act in a SHTF but it does say who our promary responsibilities are to.

Anyway as disagreeable as I am it is good to have someone on the same page of thought.
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Old 11-18-2019, 01:44 PM
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We agree. It could be a tough choice. In local emergencies we tend to help all. We cannot know if what we think is a local temperary emergency will in fact be a SHTF.

I was reading about Noah today. It struck me that God told hime to include himself and his family and their wives but no one else.

I am not saying that is how we should act in a SHTF but it does say who our promary responsibilities are to.

Anyway as disagreeable as I am it is good to have someone on the same page of thought.
I think you're right - in a local emergency that we could sense was a temporary, isolated, or "routine" emergency, you help everyone who asks of you, in those cases you expect things to return to normal and that's a cheap way to purchase good will from your neighbors.
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Old 11-19-2019, 08:53 PM
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It will be hard to trust most anyone except family, or at least a couple tiers away family (daughters parents in-laws, their family, our nephew in-laws family, etc). Even some good friends could be rough.

By the way, from my OP, ok,,, try to follow this,,, my daughter's sister inlaw's husband,,, who is jerky and a serious alpha male,,, is not getting a divorce, they have gone to counseling and things seem to be better. I still would be very guarded so to speak, if their family came to our retreat,,, guarded of him that is. I trust the family 100%.

On the other hand, we don't trust our oldest (31) daughter. She is a career criminal and a convicted multi felon. She would not be welcome at all. We actually just in the past week have changed opsec around here. We had a locksmith come and change all the locks, added 2 more day/night surveillance cameras, 2 more trail cams, and put in a full simpli-safe security system with multiple panic buttons.

Blood is NOT always thicker than water, sorry to say.
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Old 11-19-2019, 09:23 PM
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The problem as I see it, helping everyone out and sharing your supplies during, say, a weather event, you have just put a big WALMART sign above your house. No one will get supplies for next time, they will figure they can just go to your teat and nurse all they want off your supplies. And if it's really bad they will come with force.

So I keep my mouth shut. I am the disabled (and my husband is elderly and overtly disabled) neighbor everyone is supposed to be looking after, anyway. I look after myself but don't ask me for anything.

There is one guy who used to help us out with rides. We paid for each ride. My husband got drunk and talked to him about all our supplies before he knew better.

Someone should write a PAW story called "I'm coming to your house" about a family that did not practice OPSEC and what happens.

So this guy is pretty morally repugnant, he games the VA disability system, etc. Does "Sugar Daddy" arrangements because he has to pay for sex and likes degrading the women and forcing an unwilling woman into the act with him - told me that made it "more exciting". So NOT someone I want at my door. I asked him once what he had at his house, he said a couple meals' worth of food "Because if I have a lot I will just eat it all".

What are you going to do if the grid goes down? "The Army taught me to live off the land". In a subdivision.

I knew better, he would come to us. So my husband told him we bought a shotgun and would use it on him if he came, that we had TOLD him to get his OWN supplies, and he didn't. He got very offended (the more I think about him he was always getting offended) and hung up.

But he has a dog. I hope at the very least he got some dog food.

So basically no one is welcome at my house. No one (save the one guy) knows we have anything and he doesn't run in our circles anymore.
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Old 11-19-2019, 09:45 PM
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Well we know what a minority of people from the SBoards will be doing post SHTF... Running sweat shops, concentration camps, and work order slave systems. .
YOU MAKE those sound like bad things.
This is not like a teenage girl's "I'l just DIE if Rod doesn't ask me to the prom."

IF it truly is an EOTWAWKI that comes out the back end of a world wide disaster, ANYONE, alive, protected and eating will be happy also to work 15 hours a day moving rocks up to provide more fortifications that will keep him safe and alive in that "camp" that is providing safety he could not otherwise afford.
The thing is..
which you didn't mention..
We will all have CHOICES...
I do not see anyone slapping chains on people to force them to stick around unless they are going to be a future food source, and that is a whole different issue of problems to deal with.

Just because someone says "My way or the highway" it does not equate to slavery or concentration camps and conversely if someone does take you in it does not mean you automatically get a vote on ANYTHING.
You can ALWAYS LEAVE...

I have spent a large part of my adult life seeing people under great pressure that is no where near the pressure of the event in question, and they do STUPID and ridiculous things and make some of the dumbest choices... What kind of pressure are people under when they do things like elect a Maxine Waters to congress..repeatedly or any of those loons, like the congress critter who was afraid Wake Island would flip over if we put too many troops on it. IS this a reasoned and logical thought process taking place?

Sorry your sensibilities are offended but it is a SURVIVAL situation and as I have said before, when lead was flying and things were very interesting and dangerous, no one stopped to have a vote on how to handle the situation.
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Old 11-20-2019, 08:34 AM
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YOU MAKE those sound like bad things.
This is not like a teenage girl's "I'l just DIE if Rod doesn't ask me to the prom."

IF it truly is an EOTWAWKI that comes out the back end of a world wide disaster, ANYONE, alive, protected and eating will be happy also to work 15 hours a day moving rocks up to provide more fortifications that will keep him safe and alive in that "camp" that is providing safety he could not otherwise afford.
The thing is..
which you didn't mention..
We will all have CHOICES...
I do not see anyone slapping chains on people to force them to stick around unless they are going to be a future food source, and that is a whole different issue of problems to deal with.

Just because someone says "My way or the highway" it does not equate to slavery or concentration camps and conversely if someone does take you in it does not mean you automatically get a vote on ANYTHING.
You can ALWAYS LEAVE...

I have spent a large part of my adult life seeing people under great pressure that is no where near the pressure of the event in question, and they do STUPID and ridiculous things and make some of the dumbest choices... What kind of pressure are people under when they do things like elect a Maxine Waters to congress..repeatedly or any of those loons, like the congress critter who was afraid Wake Island would flip over if we put too many troops on it. IS this a reasoned and logical thought process taking place?

Sorry your sensibilities are offended but it is a SURVIVAL situation and as I have said before, when lead was flying and things were very interesting and dangerous, no one stopped to have a vote on how to handle the situation.

When I took my oath to the Constitution (As well as every other oath I've taken), I don't recall there being any portion of it where they said, "Unless we have an economic collapse, then you can do whatever you want."

You're making a lot of blind assumptions regarding what I said. Conversely, I wasn't talking to you or about you.

The point of the political commentary was what?
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Old 11-20-2019, 11:37 AM
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The problem as I see it, helping everyone out and sharing your supplies during, say, a weather event, you have just put a big WALMART sign above your house. No one will get supplies for next time, they will figure they can just go to your teat and nurse all they want off your supplies. And if it's really bad they will come with force.

So I keep my mouth shut. I am the disabled (and my husband is elderly and overtly disabled) neighbor everyone is supposed to be looking after, anyway. I look after myself but don't ask me for anything.

There is one guy who used to help us out with rides. We paid for each ride. My husband got drunk and talked to him about all our supplies before he knew better.

Someone should write a PAW story called "I'm coming to your house" about a family that did not practice OPSEC and what happens.

So this guy is pretty morally repugnant, he games the VA disability system, etc. Does "Sugar Daddy" arrangements because he has to pay for sex and likes degrading the women and forcing an unwilling woman into the act with him - told me that made it "more exciting". So NOT someone I want at my door. I asked him once what he had at his house, he said a couple meals' worth of food "Because if I have a lot I will just eat it all".

What are you going to do if the grid goes down? "The Army taught me to live off the land". In a subdivision.

I knew better, he would come to us. So my husband told him we bought a shotgun and would use it on him if he came, that we had TOLD him to get his OWN supplies, and he didn't. He got very offended (the more I think about him he was always getting offended) and hung up.

But he has a dog. I hope at the very least he got some dog food.

So basically no one is welcome at my house. No one (save the one guy) knows we have anything and he doesn't run in our circles anymore.
Maybe. if I had a neighbor like that what it would say to me is "this shows that a person can be prepared for this kind of thing". You're probably right though, most people don't think like we do.
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Old 11-20-2019, 01:42 PM
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Fortunately all of the relatives on my side of the family live in Europe, so they ain't coming here. Husband only has 1 sister and I doubt she would come here in case of SHTF.

All of our friends are welcome. I don't think we have any "useless" friends that wouldn't be able to contribute something. We don't associate with people like that somehow.

But I am totally not worried about this sort of thing. I am way more worried about the allmighty PTB coming to take our farm, food, stuff, whatever. Nothing we can do about that. Historically that's what happens. Think Venezuela or Germany during WWII. Who is the biggest threat? Certainly not your 90 year old grandma that can survive on a piece of bread a day.
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Old 11-20-2019, 02:01 PM
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I would think noone. I have 6 cats, how would I ever have money to prepare for anything except their meals and treat addiction?
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Old 11-20-2019, 02:11 PM
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When I took my oath to the Constitution (As well as every other oath I've taken), I don't recall there being any portion of it where they said, "Unless we have an economic collapse, then you can do whatever you want."

You're making a lot of blind assumptions regarding what I said. Conversely, I wasn't talking to you or about you.

The point of the political commentary was what?
I believe you are talking to anyone who took the position of no voting and no elections and my way or the highway...

IF WE ever get to TEOTWAWKI...
and civilization has crumbled around us...
You really need to go up to the group of your choice and tell them.."The Constitution says..." and then demand whatever rights you are wishing to assume...
and
one way or another your problems will probably be over with.

OR
better yet, have your own BOL group you establish, and then if they vote YOU off the island you can walk proudly into the wilds upholding those one man one vote principles that are the law no matter what the state of the world .
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Old 11-20-2019, 04:36 PM
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Outside of those I already assume responsibility to, I don't consider a checklist of skills. Basically you are only as strong as your weakest link . So I watch people around me critically and judgementally evaluating things like loyalty, work ethic, perserverence and integrity .
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Old 12-04-2019, 07:28 PM
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Outside of those I already assume responsibility to, I don't consider a checklist of skills. Basically you are only as strong as your weakest link . So I watch people around me critically and judgementally evaluating things like loyalty, work ethic, perserverence and integrity .
I wanted to quote several posts in this thread but the one above covers what I likely will do If anyone even shows up. That is my first criteria on who will be welcome or not - people simply Showing up! If people show up post - SHTF etc. or even next summer when I would gladly welcome anyone who wishes to just camp and more welcome anyone who would Help me build and even just carry stuff, organize etc.

I will even pay one or two people if they could last more than a couple days on my 9500 foot high mountain land and would not be afraid of black bears or whatever else might be around. I have seen many black bears - no grizzleys but black bears always run away from me when I make noise etc.

The title of this thread caught my eye and I must respond. I could go on and on like usual but I will just maybe ramble some and hope a few will read and maybe even like what I write.

First of all, yes I Had to come back to a city in WY at least but still a city. I was planning to stay all winter, finally, on my mtn place but many reasons I had to leave. I will post a long pic post maybe even a pic thread with twenty new pics of what I did last summer. Actually from July 8 to Nov. 29th when I barely made it out...

I focused too much on obtaining - buying more than a year's worth of food and trying to do everything by myself like usual. I did try to hire a carpenter and he told me he would show up in early Sept. but he never did. I offered him fifty dollars an hour and even 100 dollar an hour for one measly day but I guess he just didn't want to take the trouble.

If I can't get anyone to come up on nice summer days to help me build even when I will pay well or even just to camp and live for a few days I don't expect very many if any, to come up post Shtf - post apocalypse!

I did hire one guy an owner of a small general store whom I have known for thirty years and ended up having to pay him 500 dollars for 3 hours of work. Not really worth it but he knew he was the only one to help me. He mainly used his large pickup truck with a hitch on the front bumper which really helped push my camper trailer way up my driveway. Too much to tell about now but later likely in a new pic thread.


As I have written about my almost always having trouble getting people just to show up!
Far too many tell me they will come up to help or just to camp for a short while. And they would be welcome unless they Really irritate me. The nearest big city is Denver at least 250 miles away. So it is fairly remote and can be a long drive. So anyone who does and who has shown up over the past 30 years I knew that they were serious and most likely not bad people. Not worth the long drive to try to steal from me. Every year I make it more and more difficult for people to find any valuables I might have. The hidden bunker plus some caches greatly help with all of that.


Anyway, I will likely post twenty or so pics sometime before this year ends. Here are a couple pics I took on my way out to the paved highway which was just one mile uphill from my mtn place. I stayed as long as I could possibly too long since much of the mile long private road was covered up to four feet with drifts higher and 3 feet of snow had fallen the previous week.

One of the pics is of my camper trailer when I had to leave it and one shows part of a hallway tunnel I was trying to build. More later when ever I buy a laptop which is a lot easier to type on than this phone!
My real life is on my mtn place. And anyone especially from July 1st to October 1st, the most snow free time, are welcome.



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Old 12-05-2019, 07:56 AM
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Mtn Man, I love reading your stories, post more. I'm in Central Texas so we don't get snow. Dang those pictures look crazy cool. It maybe off my OP but do you have other stories of struggles/successes? What sort of work were you looking to have done for $100+/hr?

Back to the OP, we have a private doctor who is amazing and super nice. I'd like to reach out to him and find out if I can trust him here in an EOTWScenario. He did basically role back my diabetes to normal, he has come to our work to remove stitches, you can text him, email him, call HIM, and he replies within minutes every time. I'm not sure of his political beliefs.

Recently we changed churches, the minister there seems super nice as well. Sincere, honest, caring, smart... I have known some ministers who ,,,, I have no idea why they are a minister. I haven't known him long but would like to start reaching out to him someday soon as well. We had lunch, he talked about himself a bunch, so did I of course, and he is very conservative. He through no red flags.

Then there is the builder. The guy building our new home. He knows that we are preppers as he is building our house and isn't stupid. 100% solar, strong room upstairs and one down, all stone exterior, metal plates in the walls off of the exterior doors, all masonry fireplaces, generator, house 50% DC powered, etc. He is very conservative, hunts, guns, church, member of republican something something group he told me.

Has anyone here spoken with their doctor on the subject, whether it is just righting a script for antibiotics to keep just in case or their BOL?
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Old 12-05-2019, 08:48 AM
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If they're as bad as you say, most won't be able to make the trip and in a true SHTF, and you won't be making uber trips to get them (sorry Granny who, by the way is just ahead of me on the meds). If you do decide to include someone, you need to make it plain, right now, that the offer is for them and ONLY them with, no negotiation - in the long run most will refuse and your problem is solved. And yeah, some will try to start a family feud over it, which will prove my next point (see below).

Be very careful who you allow in. After managing people for 30+ years, I can tell you that one problem person will ruin the entire crew. You may have a guy with a wife and two kids. He's super useful, one kid is old enough to be of use, and his daughter will eventually grow into a good person. But the wife...........useless. Gripes and moans constantly even now when things are good, super high maintenance, never is anything enough and wouldn't get off her butt if the house was burning down around her. Once they are there, it's very hard to banish them - leaves long term bad feelings that won't go away even today, much less in a SHTF.

I would suggest to you that, if you have a small group you know would be OK that you form a cadre who will vet and approve/disapprove potential members. Generate rock hard rules for living at your place, along with a list of things that will get someone punished (define the punishment) up to and including banishment, and make it clear that there is no negotiation.

However it ends up, I wish you luck - and I don't envy you your task. I suppose you cold tell them that they need to contribute an 18 wheeler full of prepper items, PER PERSON AND BEFOREHAND as a price of admission. 2 each for small children.

WW

shoot straight - stay safe
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Old 12-05-2019, 09:56 AM
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The more non-family you invite is the more problems you will have. This includes and maybe especially wives.
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Old 12-05-2019, 10:59 AM
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I wanted to quote several posts in this thread but the one above covers what I likely will do If anyone even shows up. That is my first criteria on who will be welcome or not - people simply Showing up! If people show up post - SHTF etc. or even next summer when I would gladly welcome anyone who wishes to just camp and more welcome anyone who would Help me build and even just carry stuff, organize etc.

I will even pay one or two people if they could last more than a couple days on my 9500 foot high mountain land and would not be afraid of black bears or whatever else might be around. I have seen many black bears - no grizzleys but black bears always run away from me when I make noise etc.

The title of this thread caught my eye and I must respond. I could go on and on like usual but I will just maybe ramble some and hope a few will read and maybe even like what I write.

First of all, yes I Had to come back to a city in WY at least but still a city. I was planning to stay all winter, finally, on my mtn place but many reasons I had to leave. I will post a long pic post maybe even a pic thread with twenty new pics of what I did last summer. Actually from July 8 to Nov. 29th when I barely made it out...

I focused too much on obtaining - buying more than a year's worth of food and trying to do everything by myself like usual. I did try to hire a carpenter and he told me he would show up in early Sept. but he never did. I offered him fifty dollars an hour and even 100 dollar an hour for one measly day but I guess he just didn't want to take the trouble.

If I can't get anyone to come up on nice summer days to help me build even when I will pay well or even just to camp and live for a few days I don't expect very many if any, to come up post Shtf - post apocalypse!

I did hire one guy an owner of a small general store whom I have known for thirty years and ended up having to pay him 500 dollars for 3 hours of work. Not really worth it but he knew he was the only one to help me. He mainly used his large pickup truck with a hitch on the front bumper which really helped push my camper trailer way up my driveway. Too much to tell about now but later likely in a new pic thread.


As I have written about my almost always having trouble getting people just to show up!
Far too many tell me they will come up to help or just to camp for a short while. And they would be welcome unless they Really irritate me. The nearest big city is Denver at least 250 miles away. So it is fairly remote and can be a long drive. So anyone who does and who has shown up over the past 30 years I knew that they were serious and most likely not bad people. Not worth the long drive to try to steal from me. Every year I make it more and more difficult for people to find any valuables I might have. The hidden bunker plus some caches greatly help with all of that.


Anyway, I will likely post twenty or so pics sometime before this year ends. Here are a couple pics I took on my way out to the paved highway which was just one mile uphill from my mtn place. I stayed as long as I could possibly too long since much of the mile long private road was covered up to four feet with drifts higher and 3 feet of snow had fallen the previous week.

One of the pics is of my camper trailer when I had to leave it and one shows part of a hallway tunnel I was trying to build. More later when ever I buy a laptop which is a lot easier to type on than this phone!
My real life is on my mtn place. And anyone especially from July 1st to October 1st, the most snow free time, are welcome.



FOR $100/hr I'll come out of retirement and give you weeks of work doing electrical, plumbing, construction, bringing generators and all the power tools needed for making things work out. I have winches and heavy lift jacks and cable and straps and snatch blocks, enough to rig and heavy lift needed to be set. Never been afraid of hard work or living in camp life until shelters are built.
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Old 12-05-2019, 11:32 AM
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MtnmanMike you could use this forum as a resource to get some sound construction advice for building support for your snow load there . It doesn't look like you shovel off the roof of the structure , does that not give you concern of it collapsing and being more work to dig out and salvage than just shoring it up and keeping a minimal snow load cover ? I would think even rough cut natural looking poles could be used to your advantage to look natural and provide support . Good luck Sir and I hope you have a safe winter .
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Old 12-05-2019, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by omegaman13 View Post
When I took my oath to the Constitution (As well as every other oath I've taken), I don't recall there being any portion of it where they said, "Unless we have an economic collapse, then you can do whatever you want."

You're making a lot of blind assumptions regarding what I said. Conversely, I wasn't talking to you or about you.

The point of the political commentary was what?
I HAVE always been amazed when people use the Constitution as a shield or claim "God Given Rights"
Considering the travels I did through all my agency associations over the years, among the Fed State and locals, I have probably sworn to keep the faith more times than the average person and I also know that there is no clause that says "This is operable forever even when civilization collapses and everyone is fighting for survival, everyone is equal and gets a vote."

It is just not there.

There are no such things as God Given Rights.. not even to be born.(over half a million ********s in US each year)
The only "given" rights we have is what are wired into our DNA.
Fight or flight,(defend yourself or run away) the ability to actually think, be self aware, and most important self determination, which is fired up by self awareness.

Life Liberty and pursuit of happiness are not God given rights, they are man given rights to the extent good men allow the expanse of those rights or bad men to reel them in.
Does anyone in North Korea really think they the have God given rights?

The FOUNDERS of this country, who wrote the Constitution were brilliant and exceptional men for their time, or any time for that matter. They put it all on the line in a win or die action and once they won, instead of taking the lions share of the prize they said everyone can have a piece of the action and further, we are gonna try to make sure it stays that way and no one individual can take everything. That is greatness sorely lacking in the present world.

That said,
the sooner we come to grips that it is MEN not GOD who controls our own destinies the better off we will be. This is not an atheist statement or a denial of a supreme being. I am just saying that using that mantra of believing that God will protect left a lot of people finding themselves in chains.

Does anyone think that it is the fear of God and that paper called the Constitution that keeps the left from enslaving the nation into their lockstep of socialism given the chance, or is it the fear that armed MEN would rise up and slay them if they go too far? You can look all over the planet and see what good men allow for "rights" and what bad men do not.
So
when TSHTF. the only expectation anyone has a "right" to is whatever the people in charge of the group say the rights are
but one of our absolute rights is we can always say NO and go another way, if they let us.
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