Comparison thread: 357 magnum and 7.62x39mm : Marlin 1894C " rifle" and AK " pistol" - Survivalist Forum
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Old 06-22-2019, 07:10 PM
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Default Comparison thread: 357 magnum and 7.62x39mm : Marlin 1894C " rifle" and AK " pistol"



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Right to the point........A buddy of mine stopped by a few weeks ago with his 1894C Marlin for a weekend of hog dumpin. While here, we decided to chrono ( Lab radar chrono) his 357mag lever action rifle next to my 7.62x39mm AK pistol.

The idea being that both loaded cartridges weigh near the same as well as identical bullet weights. Also wanted factory loads for the comparison, as not all folks out there reload.....so it makes more sense to share these results here.

1st off, some details below regarding both firearms:

Marlin 1894C 357 magnum " rifle"
Dry weight = 6.6 lbs
OAL = 38.5 inches
Barrel length = 18.5 inches
Magazine = fixed tube 9rd capacity

C39V2 shockwave brace AK 7.62x39mm " pistol"
Dry weight = 7.5 lbs
OAL = 31.25 inches with brace at full extension and down to 28.75 inches fully collapsed. ( 21.1 inches without brace)
Barrel length = 10.5 inches
Magazine = detachable box from 5rd to std cap 30rd, and 75rd drum.

Chrono results: ( We used factory loads with 125gr pills via both firearms for a close comparison) Energy figures calculated from the 100rd average velocities. Drop at various distances confirmed. ( 100 yard zero)

357mag: Remington 125gr JHP

Muzzle: 2038 fps /1153 ft lbs / + 1.5 inches

50 yards: 1742 fps/ 842 ft lbs/ +.4 inches

100 yards: 1482 fps/ 609 ft lbs/ zero

150 yards: 1265 fps/ 444 ft lbs / - 4.7 inches

200 yards: 1107 fps/ 340 ft lbs / -14.8 inches



7.62x39mm: MFS 125gr JSP

Muzzle: 2195 fps / 1167 ft lbs / + .8 inches

50 yards: 2051 fps / 1151 ft lbs / + .2 inches

100 yards: 1913 fps/ 1016 ft lbs / zero

150 yards: 1780 fps/ 880 ft lbs / -2.6 inches

200 yards: 1655 fps/ 760 ft lbs/ - 8 inches


Asthetics: One of the best lookin rifles ever designed ( Lever gun fan here)... vs .... what has to be one of the ugliest in all history..... ( AK pistol) The pic below shows what Im referring to here...

Use as hog medicine: 7.62x39mm is the clear winner here, and thru a 10.5 inch tube at that.

Use in the following roles: HD/ PDW/ SHTF/ WROL/ ...etc.... : AK pistol has more advantages in every way.

Cost of firearm and ammunition : AK cost less, as well as ammo.

Ease of maint: The AK.

Ability to share ammo with a rifle/ pistol equivalent: Tied, although I wouldn't be interested in toting an AK pistol along with an AK rifle in the field.

Southpaw friendly: Both from my experience.

Iron sights: The Marlin sports a much longer sight radius and the AK is much easier to adjust in the field. ( We didn't mount optics on either because we both don't need them on firearms such as these)

Felt recoil: I couldn't tell much of a difference to be honest. The pistol has more violence of action near the muzzle while firing however.

Short story......A simple comparison using factory ammo and a dopler radar chronograph for those that are interested in both. Hopefully the shared data proves useful for folks here.

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Old 08-09-2019, 09:50 AM
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Update:

My buddy showed up with the same levergun and we ran it thru a few drills just for fun. ( Also popped a feral pig with it again.)Since this here site stems from a " survivalist" mindset, I figured some here might be in the results.

Note: He did have some work done to it since the initial run. Didn't get into much detail, but the lever gun cycles a bit smoother now.

One thing was certain. 0 chance of operator induced shortstroke with the AK, while the both of us suffered a few with the slicked up lever.


He also informed me that this particular lever gun is picky when it comes to ammunition it likes. ( He is stickin with the same load unless he finds another in a 158gr slug or so.....as he would rather hunt with the bigger one.

Next time he is up this way, I will try and get it under the labradar with some 158gr bullets.

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Old 08-09-2019, 11:07 AM
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The 7.62x39 can be handloaded with 150-grain Hornady .312" diameter spire points and with full charges of RL7 or 4198 you get about 2200 fps from a 20-inch SKS. Not sure how well it would do in a shorter barrel, as I never tried that. But if you are of the "heavy bullets are better" school of thought, the 7.62x39 with 150s gives higher velocity than 158-grainers in a .357 carbine and has a much better ballistic form which retains its velocity better than the blunt pistol slugs. The Hornady spire point bullets perform well on deer at woods ranges.
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Old 08-09-2019, 11:15 AM
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-you have the slightly heavier milled receiver.
-you do not have a folding brace.
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Old 08-09-2019, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad, 2nd View Post
-you have the slightly heavier milled receiver.
-you do not have a folding brace.
You are correct regarding the receiver, as the stamped receiver version of mine has a reported dry weight of 6.55 lbs.

The brace does not fold. It is collapsible/ adjustable if one happens to own the right sized Allen wrench. That is why the OAL can vary.....depending g on the length you have the brace extended at.

Stocks that " fold" have an OAL with stock in folded position and an OAL with stock locked open.

Example below pics: The AK with stamped receiver sports a folding stock while the other with milled receiver sports the brace.
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Old 08-09-2019, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outpost75 View Post
The 7.62x39 can be handloaded with 150-grain Hornady .312" diameter spire points and with full charges of RL7 or 4198 you get about 2200 fps from a 20-inch SKS. Not sure how well it would do in a shorter barrel, as I never tried that. But if you are of the "heavy bullets are better" school of thought, the 7.62x39 with 150s gives higher velocity than 158-grainers in a .357 carbine and has a much better ballistic form which retains its velocity better than the blunt pistol slugs. The Hornady spire point bullets perform well on deer at woods ranges.
Judging from the data we have collected so far, I would say that you are correct in that assessment regarding these 2 cartridges.

I tried some 150gr 7.62x39mm loads in this pistol, and it didn't much care for them.....but it could be an option for those that subscribe to the " bigger bullet" school of thought. From my experience with using 7.62x39mm as a hunting cartridge, the difference between a 123/ 125/ 150 grain pill pushed out of this particular case is near close to zero.
Can't remember the details with the Norinco SKS / AK47S rifles off hand, but my WASR1963 was not particularly fond of 150gr bullets either

On the other end.....my buddy is interested in trying out bigger bullets for his lever gun.....and he already reloads 357 magnum.

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Old 08-09-2019, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fragout View Post
You are correct regarding the receiver, as the stamped receiver version of mine has a reported dry weight of 6.55 lbs.

The brace does not fold. It is collapsible/ adjustable if one happens to own the right sized Allen wrench. That is why the OAL can vary.....depending g on the length you have the brace extended at.

Stocks that " fold" have an OAL with stock in folded position and an OAL with stock locked open.

Example below pics: The AK with stamped receiver sports a folding stock while the other with milled receiver sports the brace.
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You can add a folding hinge to your brace.
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Old 08-09-2019, 03:56 PM
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I have both. I also have two 7.62x39 rifles (sks and ar). The 7.62x39 is by far better. Honestly, I think it's the most versatile caliber out there.
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Old 08-09-2019, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad, 2nd View Post
You can add a folding hinge to your brace.
I intend to once preliminary evaluations are complete.

What hinge do you use?

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Old 08-09-2019, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by America's Patriot View Post
I have both. I also have two 7.62x39 rifles (sks and ar). The 7.62x39 is by far better. Honestly, I think it's the most versatile caliber out there.
I thought that it would be an interesting comparison to share here, as 357mag benefits with longer bbls overall, while 7.62x39mm does not loose that much velocity with shorter tubes.

In this case, there are a few other advantages .

This AK is a pistol, so can be utilized with a CCW permit....thus carried concealed in the legal sense.

Since there are states out there that consider it illegal to transport rifles ( including SBRs) loaded, this pistol would not have this disadvantage .

Currently using 123gr Fed Fusion vs hogs with this pistol. 43 dead pigs so far with this pistol alone.

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Old 08-09-2019, 09:37 PM
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Can be carried on a Pennsylvania License to Carry:

7.62X51...
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Old 10-10-2019, 05:15 PM
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Update:
Im currently going over the collected data that entail a comparison of this AK pistol with a rifle in 44magnum.



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Old 10-10-2019, 09:39 PM
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Ok.
The data for 44 mag is collected.

First off, a bit about the 44 mag rifle used for this data......

A brand new Marlin 1894 that my buddy recently aquired. ( Order # 70400)

OAL = 38.5 inches
Dry weight = 6.5 lbs
Barrel length = 20 inches
Fixed tube 10rd magazine

Ammo: Winchester 250gr Partition gold.
Note: The box stated a muzzle velocity of 1250 fps with 867 ft lbs of energy. ( I take it that they used a handgun of some type for thier numbers, as the rifle we used achieved quite a bit more)


Marlin 1894 44mag numbers below:

Muzzle: 1809 fps with 1815 ft lbs of energy

50 yards: 1625 fps with 1465 ft lbs of energy

100 yards: 1460 fps with 1180 ft lbs

150 yards: 1310 fps with 955 ft lbs

200 yards: 1190 fps with 785 ft lbs of energy at impact.

Terminal effects were limited this time, as my buddy only dumped 3 pigs while he was here hunting them. However, the 3 he did take all showed fairly catastrophic wounds, and all 3 were taken inside of 50 yards. 357 mag thru a rifle pales in comparison, and it more than rivals 7.62x39mm 125gr jhp thru the AK pistol.

As to weight in loaded ammo, 7.62x39mm is lighter in weight , while 44 magnum weighs about the same as loaded 308 ammunition. ( A no contest as to which cartridge is more versatile in 44 mag vs 308 in my experience)

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Old 10-11-2019, 01:00 AM
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They all sound like excellent woods cartridges for game up to 250 lbs and ranges not too much over 100 yards which covers most shots.
For longer ranges the 7.62x39 in rifle format has the edge and is a semiauto in the AK.
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Old 10-28-2019, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barnetmill View Post
They all sound like excellent woods cartridges for game up to 250 lbs and ranges not too much over 100 yards which covers most shots.
For longer ranges the 7.62x39 in rifle format has the edge and is a semiauto in the AK.
AK rifle = around 150 to 200 fps over the AK pistol.

The SKS is around 50 to 75 fps over the AK rifle.

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Old 10-28-2019, 01:45 PM
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Just got a .350 Legend upper, carbine length. Should handle heavier slugs than .357 or 7.62X39. Still, I do like the .44 and .357 magnums out of a carbine.
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Old 10-28-2019, 02:14 PM
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Sounds like a fun little study. Iím a fan of lever guns myself. My favorite rifle is my 1928 Winchester Ď94 30-30. It has a 19 inch barrel, and weighs right at 6lbs with a full tube of 150 grain powír-shok Federal ammo. Handy little brush gun, especially in the manzanita thickets and oak glades of Northern California. (Anecdote: I once killed a coyote at around 300 ish yards with this rifle)

I thought about getting my AR chambered in 7.62x39, but I figured my 30-30 had that ballistic realm (30 caliber mid level power) covered.

Iíd like to get into the 357 cartridge here before too long. Iíve got a hankering to toss some 158 grain Kieth bullets down range at some high velocities (looking at either a Blackhawk/GP100 or an Uberti 1875).

Also, Iím trying to get my girlfriend into shooting, and a light 38 special load through a Marlin rifle/heavy revolver is less intimidating than my AR and Beretta. It could make a decent prep for her, especially if I can get her to train with them. But thatís another story...
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Old 10-29-2019, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobcat In The Woods View Post
Sounds like a fun little study. I’m a fan of lever guns myself. My favorite rifle is my 1928 Winchester ‘94 30-30. It has a 19 inch barrel, and weighs right at 6lbs with a full tube of 150 grain pow’r-shok Federal ammo. Handy little brush gun, especially in the manzanita thickets and oak glades of Northern California. (Anecdote: I once killed a coyote at around 300 ish yards with this rifle)

I thought about getting my AR chambered in 7.62x39, but I figured my 30-30 had that ballistic realm (30 caliber mid level power) covered.

I’d like to get into the 357 cartridge here before too long. I’ve got a hankering to toss some 158 grain Kieth bullets down range at some high velocities (looking at either a Blackhawk/GP100 or an Uberti 1875).

Also, I’m trying to get my girlfriend into shooting, and a light 38 special load through a Marlin rifle/heavy revolver is less intimidating than my AR and Beretta. It could make a decent prep for her, especially if I can get her to train with them. But that’s another story...
Love lever guns here. ( Very fond of an old 94 winny chambered in 32 win spl that my sister ended up with.
Note: We are both left hand/ left eye dominant.

While I have a Glenfield in 3030, I don't stock much ammo for it as I do with 7.62x39mm for similar reasons.....as they both fill the same purpose in regards to hunting.
A few other reasons......

1. 7.62x39mm loaded ammo is lighter in weight vs 3030.

2. 7.62x39mm ammo costs much less.

3. My group stocks 7.62x39mm rather deep already, and has since the early 80s.

4. The AK types also serve another purpose here. ( std capacity 30rd dbm and 75rd drums in an extremely reliable, easy to use/ maintain, and compact little rifle and/ or pistol gives plenty in regards to versatility.

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Old 10-29-2019, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fragout View Post
This AK is a pistol, so can be utilized with a CCW permit....thus carried concealed in the legal sense.

Since there are states out there that consider it illegal to transport rifles ( including SBRs) loaded, this pistol would not have this disadvantage .
Always good to check on each states laws, since I believe there are several states where carrying an AR/AK etc "pistol" as your CCW isn't allowed.
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Old 10-29-2019, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyinID View Post
Always good to check on each states laws, since I believe there are several states where carrying an AR/AK etc "pistol" as your CCW isn't allowed.
Can you provide a list of these states where they are not allowed?

Thanks.


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