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Old 04-30-2019, 10:27 PM
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I'm surprised as I've heard and seen nothing. The Group guys were using them in Northern Afghanistan for the past year and had nothing but positive things to say. Several were used on smaller limbed ANDSF wounded.

ROCK6
Glad it worked for them!

My only experience was in training. Maybe they're better with it than myself and others were.
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Old 05-01-2019, 05:05 PM
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Glad it worked for them!

My only experience was in training. Maybe they're better with it than myself and others were.
They're not as effective as a full size CAT/SOFT-T, especially on full-sized adult limbs, but they make a big difference on child or small-adult sized limbs, including canines (another area I saw them which was with the Belgians and Croatians).

ROCK6
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Old 05-01-2019, 07:53 PM
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Awesome! Great posts.
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Old 05-01-2019, 09:31 PM
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More coming soon, thanks for the greatly responses! For the last post I'm thinking of starting a burner YouTube channel and doing a tabletop talk for situation specific packing lists and such, as well as instructionals.
Bear with me, these are coming. Got a trip this weekend but I've already gathered some stuff and cleared some workbench area for the project. Just got to get my talking points put together and some of that sweet, elusive freetime!

Gonna do my best to not be a nutnfancy clone.
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Old 05-02-2019, 02:11 PM
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Great thread! The current generation CAT and SOFT-T are unquestionably the most proven. Another consideration, especially for civilian use, is the RATS:

https://ratsmedical.com/

https://youtu.be/FzIXjG0I9EU

Biggest issue with the more popular CATs is that they are simply too big for children or small-limbed adults, and animals. The SWAT-T is another option to handle those needs as well. I find myself carrying a RATs far more often when I CCW. I do have SOFT-T's on my battle belt and plate carrier FAKs, but while home out-and-about,I like the flexibility of the RATs.



One thing to note that if you're doing activities that might develop holes in people, including yourself, consider your FAK pouch location and how accessible it is with either hand in case one is wounded or pinned. I'll have to get pictures up later, but I've typically carried my main FAK (SOTech's Viper Flat regular and mini, and BlueForceGear's Micro Trauma Kit NOW pouches) on the back of my plate carrier or battle belt. Both version pull-out either to the left of right. While my main kit is on the back, I also carried a CAT on each side, and another Israeli bandage and CAT on the front (of my plate carrier). With RATs being much smaller, I have added one to my belt kit along with the SOFT-T.

Lastly, have a regular FAK or "booboo" kit nearby. 99% of your "medial needs" are basic first aid and you don't want to dig into your blowout FAK just because you need some gauze and tape to make a band aid.

VW mentioned expirations dates. Heat will degrade elastic and webbing material. Check it even if there's not expiration date, especially if it's something you leave in your vehicle year-round. I have a plastic tub (well "did have" as my son borrowed it for ROTC training) for "training materials". Stuff that isn't usable or beyond expiration but still fully capable of using for training.

Speaking of training. Get some. Don't have a decompression needle in your kit if you don't know how to use it. Check your local fire and police departments as they often have free classes. Many shooting classes also offer first-responder type medical classes as well. It's also a perishable skill and TTPs change over the years. Just because you were CLS qualified in 1980 doesn't mean much anymore

ROCK6
I would highly recommend against the RATs tourniquet. Jeff Kirkman is the epitome of a ****ty human being, and a liar. The RATs has yet to be proven anywhere but on one of Kirkman's pages, or the pages of those he has a financial partnership with. It has, time and time again, failed to stop femoral bleeds, and the mechanism it operates under is conducive to permanent nerve and tissue damage.

Just a few of Kirkman's greatest hits:

1. Trademarked the phrase "TCCC," then put TCCC-approved on his ****ty bungie cords, knowing full-well the actual organization who approves items such as this is actually CoTCCC. He did this, assuming (rightfully), the average user was too ignorant to know the difference.

2. Bought up a slew of domains that linked back to his competitors (the makers of CAT and SOFTT-W), and started a campaign of disinformation against them.

3. Has consistently side-stepped requests for independent, peer-reviewed testing of the RATs, while claiming vociferously that such testing has been done, and will be released "soon." (still waiting, years later)

I might trust one on my dog. Maybe.

ETA: They also have a major propensity to disassemble themselves - the metal separates from the bungie.
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Old 05-02-2019, 10:50 PM
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One question I've got about IFAKs/Medical kits in general is this: Where is the best place to mount/carry them if you're wearing armor? I've tried mounting one to my plate carrier and it seems fairly difficult to access on the cummerbund.

I've got a large MOLLE battle belt that I've dropped down to 1 Ifak mounted to and my Camelbak has a second pouch for carrying things, so I have another in there now. I'm not really digging the battle belt setup as much now that I've been training with it and a plate carrier and I eventually would like to move the IFAK in my Camelbak out and somewhere more accessible.

Does anyone have any tips on where they theirs mounted, or at least share their experiences? I know that they need to be easily accessible, in the event you actually need to use one but I'm struggling to find a position for me that I can both easily access and it's not in the way.
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Old 05-02-2019, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by 7.5x55 Swiss View Post
One question I've got about IFAKs/Medical kits in general is this: Where is the best place to mount/carry them if you're wearing armor? I've tried mounting one to my plate carrier and it seems fairly difficult to access on the cummerbund.

I've got a large MOLLE battle belt that I've dropped down to 1 Ifak mounted to and my Camelbak has a second pouch for carrying things, so I have another in there now. I'm not really digging the battle belt setup as much now that I've been training with it and a plate carrier and I eventually would like to move the IFAK in my Camelbak out and somewhere more accessible.

Does anyone have any tips on where they theirs mounted, or at least share their experiences? I know that they need to be easily accessible, in the event you actually need to use one but I'm struggling to find a position for me that I can both easily access and it's not in the way.
I'm not an Operator Who Operates but I have experimented with my gear. By that I mean that I sometimes wear it when shooting or I go on hikes with it.

If you have space on the back, the flat one I have in my post works great and you can reach it with either hand. But if you have a backpack or hydration carrier it gets in the way. You can still have both though, the IFAK and the pack or bladder. It still works.

But there is an argument for keeping your IFAK either on your belt or chest rig (or whatever "other" web gear) so it is always WITH you no matter what.

In that case, you can still keep it either on your back with the flat pouch, or use a more traditional fatter pouch just about anywhere, as long as you can reach it with both hands.

For me, I don't like big fat pouches of any type sticking out on the sides (plus that makes it harder to reach with both hands), so an IFAK always ends up either on my left front or right front, I'd say at about the 10 o'clock or the 3 o'clock. Either on a belt or chest rig.

BUT! The only real answer is to put it on and try it out. Try different positions for the pouch. Go walk around or run around and do stuff. Because whatever we tell you may give you ideas but you only know what will work for you if you actually try it.

.
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Old 05-02-2019, 11:19 PM
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BUT! The only real answer is to put it on and try it out. Try different positions for the pouch. Go walk around or run around and do stuff. Because whatever we tell you may give you ideas but you only know what will work for you if you actually try it.

.

Yeah. I guess I knew that. I might just have to adapt to the position of the IFAK. The biggest issue I'm running in to on my cummerbund is how I use my sling. I've found that my sling gets caught on any pouches mounted on my left side, which is where I would have my IFAK on my carrier as I've got a canteen on my right that fights perfectly there. That and I guess not being left side dominant it feel awkward to even access the pouch.

I'm thinking it might be a good idea to mount my canteen somewhere else and put my IFAK on the right side. Both of my IFAKs are small enough to where I could technically mount them both on the right cummerbund but I've not tried it yet. Maybe I will give that a go and go on a hike or something with it.
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Old 05-03-2019, 07:12 AM
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Good info in this thread so far. Maybe we could get a Mod to sticky it.
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Old 05-07-2019, 08:02 AM
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For those untrained in chest needle decompression, vented chest seals are what I'd recommend you have.
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If you need to trust a chest hole is plugged, this is my go-to. However, since it is not vented, you will absolutely want to use this in a place where you're relatively sure emergency services will be available within 15ish minutes.
Studies have shown no advantage to vented dressings chest dressings vs. not vented, so why spend extra $ on vented seals?
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Old 05-07-2019, 01:50 PM
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Studies have shown no advantage to vented dressings chest dressings vs. not vented, so why spend extra $ on vented seals?
The vented ones cost the same, really.

And the science is definitely not conclusive. In my career ad a combat medic AMEDD changed their minds 4 times. It's a safer-than-sorry thing in my mind. As long as you plug the hole proper you're doing right.
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Old 05-07-2019, 03:47 PM
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The vented ones cost the same, really.

And the science is definitely not conclusive. In my career ad a combat medic AMEDD changed their minds 4 times. It's a safer-than-sorry thing in my mind. As long as you plug the hole proper you're doing right.
Exactly. One year, they push vented, the next year they don't.
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Old 05-07-2019, 03:49 PM
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Latest CoTCCC list of approved tq's. Still no RATs. This might be a clue.

https://deployedmedicine.com/market/31/content/100
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Old 07-04-2019, 06:20 PM
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Definitely a thread I think is worthy of a bump. Would be interested in those instructional videos too, if they ever come to fruition.
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Old 08-15-2019, 09:10 AM
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Hey, checking back in. Had some other drama that had me distracted for a while. Back at this project.
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Old 08-16-2019, 12:45 AM
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Any links to free sources for learning to properly use these items?
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Old 08-20-2019, 05:59 AM
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Latest CoTCCC list of approved tq's. Still no RATs. This might be a clue.

https://deployedmedicine.com/market/31/content/100
I think you're looking at it from a myopic viewpoint; these aren't what I would suggest over a standard CAT in combat, but as an option for those who have limbs too small for a CAT to work...which is reality. A SWAT-T is another option that would work in those instances (or on dogs), not as ideal as a standard CAT, but more applicable to the situation and patient. I've seen CATs not fit K9s and kids.

CAT certifications are based on adult patients.

My son has been going over statistics and has found that for gun shots, chest seals are often more necessary than CATs. He's bringing back the fanny-pack:



He wears it to classes and will often carry his P365 in it along with the CAT below and additional blow-out inside. Ironically, most of the campus cops/security know he's a criminal justice major, in ROTC and is TCCC certified; they like his setup.

ROCK6
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Old 08-21-2019, 01:31 PM
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I think you're looking at it from a myopic viewpoint; these aren't what I would suggest over a standard CAT in combat, but as an option for those who have limbs too small for a CAT to work...which is reality. A SWAT-T is another option that would work in those instances (or on dogs), not as ideal as a standard CAT, but more applicable to the situation and patient. I've seen CATs not fit K9s and kids.

CAT certifications are based on adult patients.

My son has been going over statistics and has found that for gun shots, chest seals are often more necessary than CATs. He's bringing back the fanny-pack:



He wears it to classes and will often carry his P365 in it along with the CAT below and additional blow-out inside. Ironically, most of the campus cops/security know he's a criminal justice major, in ROTC and is TCCC certified; they like his setup.

ROCK6
I actually stated I might use a RATS on a dog. Probably not though, because I refuse to give Kirkman a cent. There are plenty of other options that work on dogs.
I've run a First Spear fanny pack as a plussed-up IFAK for years. They are perfect for the job.
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Old 09-06-2019, 06:17 AM
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My vehicle bag consists of:
C.A.R.R. Pack w/ medium insert and 2x ESAPI plates

4x small removable compartments each containing:
triage tag
cravat
roll of surgical tape
kling
mini-sharpie
2x tourniquet
nasopharyngeal airway w/ lube
trauma shears
nitrile gloves
mylar blanket
Hyfin chest seal
2x 14 ga needle
quickclot (kaolin)
Isreali bandage
compressed gauze

2 medium compartments each containing:
1x flexible splint
1x abdominal bandage
3x triage tags

in external pouch:
Springfield XDM9
2 spare mags

in attached mag pouch:
3x AR mags

an AR pistol in a 5.11 shorty bag

My personal blowout kit has the same as one of the small pouches above except the tourniquets are the new SOFT-T Ws.

I pray I never need any of it, but it's there if I do.
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