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Old 06-14-2018, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Lost Woods Survival View Post
Well I see this in two ways. 1 is how many times can you shoot at the target and hit it. 2 can you aim and hit it everytime. For me I'm more worried about hitting the target everytime and not shoot 50 times to get 13 hits at 600 yards. At a 100 yards to 250 I can place over half the shoots standing no rest. That is what matters most in the real world of combat to me. And take everything with a grain of salt. I am also not using 1000 dollar plus rifle with match ammo. I just do it for fun not trying for medals here. Plus rarely do you see for more then 300 yards in this dense bush/woods.
I AGREE with the more hit concept,
but I have always believed in keeping people who were trying to kill me out of their comfort zone. Lots of folks can hit inside 200yds. So, if I can keep them out past 500yds their effective capability to do me harm would be greatly lessened while my success rate at that range would be fairly good even with the field grade and "just irons"

I used to caribou hunt and you get in caribou country they will either be running over you or may on the far hill a mile away. My rifle for caribou was the same one I did a LOT of 1000yds shooting with, a .340Weatherby. In a glass stock with the right loads and glass the rifle regularly produces 6-7" groups at 1000. So, when I was killing caribou at 700yds, people were amazed. When in reality to my line of thinking it was an easy shot because it was much closer than I usually shot that rifle.

When the balloon goes up, with all the ARs and AKs and SKSs and Mini 14s out there, those folks will be at disadvantage to people who can hit farther out. With irons I will pretty consistently ruin your day inside 800. Just saying if you practice shooting longer you can keep folks farther away.
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Old 06-14-2018, 11:01 PM
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I took this elk using the same M14 in me first post here. ( 2nd rifle in pic below. Other rifle is my M1A- A1, and have used it for iron sight hunting as well.)

Iron sights offhand via hasty sling. 166 yards exact. Right at dusk.
165gr Sierra gameking.
A perfect broadside shot while he was stationary. Bullet exited the far side.

11B
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Old 06-14-2018, 11:26 PM
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Too many trees past 150 yards so i guess its 150 with my model 94. Unless i go to the range after sunset, then theres 450 yards to play with, im pretty consistant at 200, but the lighting aint great past that. Cant go to the range during the day, the golfers get nervous. No im not kidding lol
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Old 06-14-2018, 11:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboypapa View Post
Too many trees past 150 yards so i guess its 150 with my model 94. Unless i go to the range after sunset, then theres 450 yards to play with, im pretty consistant at 200, but the lighting aint great past that. Cant go to the range during the day, the golfers get nervous. No im not kidding lol
Trees aint permanent if you own a chainsaw or an axe.

And a golf course is a perfect waste of a possible firing range.

Ftr. ....my .02.......lol

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Old 06-15-2018, 12:06 AM
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At the civilian access range on Ft. Lewis, I zero at 25 meters and hit at 300 meters (or is it yards there) and it seems to work out well enough. This is with an AR with a 16" barrel.
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Old 06-15-2018, 12:10 AM
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Iím lazy as hell, pass 100 yards a donít hole punch, I shoot 10 inch gongs. Local range is only 300 but I can iron sight it every time when on a bench or braced. Free standing I can hit some at 300 but all at 150.
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Old 06-15-2018, 12:18 AM
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500 yards prone with a sling, it was pretty easy to hit the silhouette target back in my USMC days. I don't remember if division matches were fired at 500 or 600 yards. The fundamentals are the same, just more dope for wind and elevation.
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Old 06-15-2018, 12:30 AM
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Define effective.

For me it has nothing to do with accuracy...its target IDing. Past a couple hundred yards I may be able to still shoot a tight group, but I won't know what I'm shooting at without a spotter with a scope.
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Old 06-15-2018, 03:14 AM
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My iron sight, fun rifle is a 40 year old Winchester Model 94 Lever in 30-30.

I continue to get better and better with the rifle, but last Thanksgiving, our range set up a bunch of pumpkins on posts at 100 yards. They offered little prizes for those who could hit them from a standing position, only with iron sights. They allowed 5 shots each......

I was a little amazed that the first four shooters, all firing AR's missed all five times. I stepped up and hit four of five.

With confidence, I believe I could hit a torso at 200 yards pretty regular, from a standing position. But it takes practice. When I go to the range, everyone around me always sits on the bench with nice rests...... I am one of very, very few that practices sitting, prone and standing and kneeling....
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Old 06-15-2018, 06:36 AM
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Rifle, round, rest, conditions all play into my effectiveness.
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Old 06-15-2018, 07:43 AM
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Long distances with an AR15 platform require a 20" barrel, carbines don't cut it. For 30 years I qualified twice yearly at 200, 300, and 500 yards respectively. Iron sights and a little carbon smudge to prevent glare. I still shoot fairly well with irons, but my eyes are old. Scopes sure make things easier.
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Old 06-15-2018, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenxkillz View Post
Whats up, SB?

Simple question: what is your *current* range at which you can reliably hit a torso target with irons? Bench, standing, prone?

200-250 with BUIS on the AR at the bench, maybe 125-150 staanding, and 175-200 prone.
Seated at a bench in 20mph gusts, 300y. I was 13 at the time, and have no clue about today, but I'd hazard a guess that 300 yards is still very doable for me, maybe more, but I won't claim it yet.
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Old 06-15-2018, 11:16 AM
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Sitting position about 100M max for reliable central nervous system hit on sitting Squirrels, P.Dogs and bunnies, that's about a 3x1-6x2" kill zone. close that in to 20m for a reflex off hand shot when they are on the run.

The actual kill zone of a "torso" size target which is generally regarded as a piece of printer paper, 8.5x11" or there about. 150-200 maybe out to 250 is the furthest, the entire size of the torso could be well beyond but don't shoot to wound... I'm not shooting anything beyond that without magnification to positively identify and assess the potential target.
Unless whatever it may be is shooting towards or at me of course, I will try well beyond my effective range in that circumstance.
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Old 06-15-2018, 11:40 AM
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The club I belong to has a clanger targets out to a 1000 meters. The range splits at 500 meters so one has to change shooting positions to access the further targets. I do alright from the bench with a NM peep sighted M1A1 on the 20" gong at 500 meters. Less consistent standing supported/unsupported, kneeling and prone. If I were serious about it then it's something I would need to work on. I shoot the longer ranges mostly for fun and to see if I can hit at those distances.

Once I get the bullet drop down I can routinely hit a clanger at 150 meters standing unsupported with a 6" GP 100. I don't assign any particular value to doing so, like I said I'm doing it for fun and just to see if I can. Once I get the GP dialed in I like to see how many consecutive shots can I get before I miss one. Usually 4-5 shots before I wobble one out...LOL
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Old 06-15-2018, 01:08 PM
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How far with iron sights???
I could hit the side of a barn if I was close I guess.
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Old 06-15-2018, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenxkillz View Post
Whats up, SB?

Simple question: what is your *current* range at which you can reliably hit a torso target with irons? Bench, standing, prone?

200-250 with BUIS on the AR at the bench, maybe 125-150 staanding, and 175-200 prone.
I can hit torso targets all day long with my iron sighted ak at 300 yards. I can hit that with about any iron sighted rifle I have, but 300 yards is the longest range I have. I'd like to try something farther. Unless it's a precise shot (small game, small steel plate, etc) or low light conditions, I prefer using iron sights. That's how I learned to shoot and around where I live, the thick cover makes scopes basically useless.
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Old 06-15-2018, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KnurledNut View Post
Long distances with an AR15 platform require a 20" barrel, carbines don't cut it. For 30 years I qualified twice yearly at 200, 300, and 500 yards respectively. Iron sights and a little carbon smudge to prevent glare. I still shoot fairly well with irons, but my eyes are old. Scopes sure make things easier.
Not true. There were plenty of guys shooting M4's in division matches and outshot plenty of other guys firing full 20" M16A4's. Even more people were qualifying Expert in the Marines with their issued M4.

More difficult with the shorter sight radius? Yes. But an M4 with irons is fully capable of making point targets hits on a torso at 500 yards.
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Old 06-15-2018, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fragout View Post
Trees aint permanent if you own a chainsaw or an axe.

And a golf course is a perfect waste of a possible firing range.

Ftr. ....my .02.......lol

11B
I completely agree on the golf course, i have a key to the gate, cuz i work there. Usually take a few buddies when we go to the range. Its actually closer to 780 yards from the upper tees across the range and then across the first fairway to the trees on the other side of the crat path, hey, ya do what ya gotta do lol.
Trees are on the neighbors place, and all over the mountains where i hunt, so no axe or chainsaw.
BUT, when a couple dead trees fall between the first and second holes, we'll be able to set the targets out to about 1500 yards, not sure i can even see that far lol.
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Old 06-17-2018, 03:35 AM
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Very helpful thread. It's good to know what's reasonable to aim for though it's always better to aim a little higher. I won't feel terrible about my shooting now that I know that even the Army and Marine guys aren't always hitting the hollywood shots.
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Old 06-17-2018, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerindel View Post
Define effective.
If it's a bad guy, effective is anything that makes him reconsider, even if briefly, shooting back.
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