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Old 06-14-2018, 03:32 AM
kenxkillz kenxkillz is offline
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Default Your effective range with irons



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Whats up, SB?

Simple question: what is your *current* range at which you can reliably hit a torso target with irons? Bench, standing, prone?

200-250 with BUIS on the AR at the bench, maybe 125-150 staanding, and 175-200 prone.
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Old 06-14-2018, 07:15 AM
bilmac bilmac is offline
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The National Match course used to be shot with military rifles, iron sights. M 14s and M1s were the only rifles that I saw on the range. Slow fire prone unrested was shot at 800M. If I remember the bull was maybe 10-12 inches. On a good day, good light, no wind you had better be able to get all your shots in there to be competitive. Winners were usually determined by the number of Xs, a smaller maybe 6" circle inside the 10 ring.
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Old 06-14-2018, 07:20 AM
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I was hitting 700yds from the bench with my Springfield M1A, South African FMJ, and Iron Sights a few 6 years ago. Elevation adjustments were needed.

That range shut down when the owner closed his gun shop.
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Old 06-14-2018, 07:34 AM
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Our old range only had 200 yards, so that’s all we could do. We’re good at that distance bench, standing & kneeling offhand, and prone. 7.62x51, 5.56, 7.62x39, 5.45x39 & 5.7x28.

Mind that 5.7x28 is likely not very effective beyond say 125-150 (honestly do not know though), but we could ping torso sized steel out to 200 all day long with the PS90’s.

New range has 50, 100, 200, 220, 300 & 340. Plates at 100, 210 & 320. With plates at 610 & paper at 600 twice per month.

Been trying prone at 340 with great success lately, and may give 620 a try after fire season is over. Plates come down during fire season, so unlikely we’ll try the next couple long distance days, then they’ll be down for season. Obviously not 7.62x39 nor 5.7x28 at that distance, but would be fun to see what/if we can do 5.56 and 5.45 with any consistency.
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Old 06-14-2018, 07:58 AM
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I only have a little over 100 yds at my backyard range so that's generally it unless I'm at a class. Torso target is basically 100% with irons at that range with an AR. Standing, rice paddy prone, kneeling, whatever. Too easy really. At 50 yds. I'm usually approaching 100% hits with my P-01. Honestly I rarely shoot torso sized targets because of the short range available. Normally use 6 or 8 inch circles.
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Old 06-14-2018, 08:05 AM
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I'm assuming you are talking about a full size target or at least torso under real world field conditions?
Standing 75 yards
Bench/Prone depends on the point blank range of the weapon and my understanding of the external ballistics.
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Old 06-14-2018, 03:35 PM
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My current ability? Using my M1 Garand (iron sights, I use it in our club’s pseudo-High Power match)...

Standing - 200 yards slow fire I could hit it, oh, 5-6 times out of 10. I would say 100 yards I could easily get all ten in a torso size.

If i’m prone, slow fire I would say 250 yards is where I can’t guarantee anymore that i’m at torso sized groups. I’ve never tried with my ARs.

This is with reloads, mind you. If I was trying this with Greek surplus, subtract 30 yards from those numbers.
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Old 06-14-2018, 05:56 PM
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Standing about 150-175yrds, crouching about 75-100yrds depending on the terrain, and I've never shot prone before so I've got no clue but I would imagine it'd be further out that the previous two.
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Old 06-14-2018, 06:04 PM
Fenrell Fenrell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenxkillz View Post
Whats up, SB?

Simple question: what is your *current* range at which you can reliably hit a torso target with irons? Bench, standing, prone?

200-250 with BUIS on the AR at the bench, maybe 125-150 staanding, and 175-200 prone.
Bench or prone, 400 yards with some, 450 yds with others (depends on the sight and platform). Standing 300 yds (usually using a sling). That is in light wind conditions. Kick up the wind a bit and subtract at least a hundred yards from all those.

I recently surprised myself by hitting a torso target at 300 yds from the sitting position with a 1942 Mosin Nagant 10 out of 10 shots with the standard iron sights and surplus ammo. There was no real wind that day though, which is rare around here.

I actually haven't tried with BUIS, I'll need to try them out the next time I go out. As thick as the posts are, my results will probably be similar to yours though. The above was mostly done with .30 caliber rifles of one sort or another (M1, K-31, Mosin Nagant).
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Old 06-14-2018, 06:19 PM
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PTR 91, GI model; table and rest; four different brands of ammo; 200 yds:



Same rifle, set-up and ammunition; 300 yds:



Same rifle and set-up; German surplus ammo; 600 yds:
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Old 06-14-2018, 06:26 PM
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Last time I fired the Infantry Trophy Team Match I got off 24 rounds at 600 yards in a minute with the Garand, scoring 19 hits total on three E silhouettes, getting bonus points on all of my targets. At the time I was 66 years old.
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Old 06-14-2018, 06:30 PM
Herd Sniper Herd Sniper is offline
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With most rifles, if I have them properly sighted, 500 meters is not unusual for me to hit a silhouette target about 95% of the time. That's like a basic requirement for military people using the .223/5.56 rifles any more. You have to have so many, 70% of your shots, hit the target at 500 meters.

I use scopes a lot any more so I can push most of my shooting distances out to about 750 meters most times if push comes to shove.
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Old 06-14-2018, 06:31 PM
recklessdriver recklessdriver is offline
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Waiting to see the mythical sks post that states they hit 1000 yards.

I have done 300 to 500 meters with a a2m16.

M2 1500 meters as well. Damn with the t&e you can't miss.
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Old 06-14-2018, 07:12 PM
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down here, my range to put meat in the freezer is usually under 100m unless im shooting a runway or powerline,
steels, H&K style irons, 556, 500 600 maybe ringing the gong (3 years ago salt river az). 300 win mag, ruger #1 with vernier tang sight? considerably farther. its all subjective though, its almost 2 days ride to find a range greater than 350m around here.
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Old 06-14-2018, 07:23 PM
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I think I could still make someone uncomfortable to @ 275-325, using the M1.
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Old 06-14-2018, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by recklessdriver View Post
Waiting to see the mythical sks post that states they hit 1000 yards.
A 1000 yard shot is easy that's why we use Revolvers for that, we shoot ground squirrels with iron sights out to 1500-2000 yards with our SKS's but that's with hand loads.

Whatever you shoot is going to depend on you knowing the ballistics of your round, your rifle and how to read the conditions.
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Old 06-14-2018, 08:10 PM
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300 meters for sure...
A2 on the old Ft Knox qual course. Obviously - shot Eggspurt.

I'm sure I could push that to 1/4 mile.
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Old 06-14-2018, 09:44 PM
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BACK when I was just a youngster I found that with a good tight m14 I could make you very nervous out to 1000 and inside of 800 I could pretty regularly ruin your day.

I have the luxury of having 1000yd range on state land about 6 miles from my home so I just have had a lot more practice than most. With the scoped M21T I can pretty much punch your ticket every time I squeeze one off. With the field grade M1A with irons I would still keep your interest out to 1000 with your chances being about 1 of every 3-4 will scratch you up a little.

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Old 06-14-2018, 09:50 PM
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Well I see this in two ways. 1 is how many times can you shoot at the target and hit it. 2 can you aim and hit it everytime. For me I'm more worried about hitting the target everytime and not shoot 50 times to get 13 hits at 600 yards. At a 100 yards to 250 I can place over half the shoots standing no rest. That is what matters most in the real world of combat to me. And take everything with a grain of salt. I am also not using 1000 dollar plus rifle with match ammo. I just do it for fun not trying for medals here. Plus rarely do you see for more then 300 yards in this dense bush/woods.
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Old 06-14-2018, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenxkillz View Post
Whats up, SB?

Simple question: what is your *current* range at which you can reliably hit a torso target with irons? Bench, standing, prone?

200-250 with BUIS on the AR at the bench, maybe 125-150 staanding, and 175-200 prone.
In order to pass my SDM course, soldiers had to get 8 out of 10 hits out to 650meters ( 711 yards) using iron sights from the prone supported position and using whatever rifle they brought with them. It can be done consistently. I prefer the M14 types for this type of shooting.

Multiple targets that can move in hard to predict " patterns" from the standing position brings on a whole new challenge in terms of shooting.In my case, the rifle preffered for this type of shooting is the same as above.

Targets pictured below. All were terminally " hit" with rifle in other pic in a handful of seconds / standing position/ inside of 35 yards. All but the first one shot was haulin butt in different directions. ( Not the farthest moving target I have connected with, but more towards the most I have connected with at one outset. ( 3 more found in the treeline after phot was taken.)

Ammo = 7.62X51MM R1M1 146GR BALL. ( That particular day)

Note: I have well over 500 acres that are over run with hogs. Typically dump 3 to 5 per week. Also have my private shooting range without any practical shooting limits via distances. ( ie. .....3 kilometers, or 3281 yards.)

Note: Feral pigs move much faster than 2 legged critters. Also be advised that WIN USA 147GR FMJ ( Q3130 .....M80) will smash right thru level 3a vests at well over 500 yards.

Note: Tresspassers typically show up at night. The ARMS 18 scope mount via M14 pictured below allows precise shooting of multiple pigs in the middle of the night using TIS. ( One thing iron sights aren't as capable at.) 3rd pic is an example of what you can see without any light and over 200 yards. ( All pigs in photo expired via M14 shooting 168gr A76251M1A)

Note: I prefer the 6 oclock hold via distant targets via prone unsupported/ sling as a shooting aid. Center mass hold when dealing with fast movers at closer distances off hand.

Note: The M14/ M1Garand/ BM59 have the best iron sights ever put on a fighting rifle imo. ( I want the meat and taters with the gravy......lol)



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