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Old 11-26-2019, 01:21 AM
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Feral dogs are already a problem. We had some issues here in Houston. The flood actually may have helped kill them off a little. They have attacked people and even killed one lady a few years back. The problem won’t get any better post SHTF.

Also rabies is an issue. It’s kills people still a lot in the developing world. I was considering getting a vaccination now. But I’m not exactly sure how much protection it gives.
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Old 11-26-2019, 01:31 AM
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... I was considering getting a vaccination now. But Iím not exactly sure how much protection it gives.
they require them to work with bats, last time I looked into it they were about $11K that's for the Imovax then you need to find someone willing to inject you. as I recall it was 4 doses over a 2 week period.
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Old 11-26-2019, 01:57 AM
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If stray dog packs become a problem, the best countermeasure will be your dogs.
That may be true, but after a certain amount of time, those dogs may become more of a liability than for a protection against stray dog packs.

After a prolonged SHTF event, rabies will be more prevalent than it is now.

So to prevent your dogs from contracting the virus and spreading it to your group, you will need to stock rabies vaccine and maintain constant refrigeration to store the vaccines at temperatures between 35 - 45 degrees.

I am not sure what the shelf life of the product is but I don't think it is very long. Get the freshest possible, if you can.

Naturally, you would want to get the type that protects your dog for up to three years after vaccination, rather than one year.
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Old 11-26-2019, 02:01 AM
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Whoops, I didn't see C&FB's post before I posted. (He also mentioned the rabies issue.)
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Old 11-26-2019, 03:37 AM
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Originally Posted by williammandella View Post
If stray dog packs become a problem, the best countermeasure will be your dogs.
That may be true, but after a certain amount of time, those dogs may become more of a liability than for a protection against stray dog packs.

After a prolonged SHTF event, rabies will be more prevalent than it is now.

So to prevent your dogs from contracting the virus and spreading it to your group, you will need to stock rabies vaccine and maintain constant refrigeration to store the vaccines at temperatures between 35 - 45 degrees.

I am not sure what the shelf life of the product is but I don't think it is very long. Get the freshest possible, if you can.

Naturally, you would want to get the type that protects your dog for up to three years after vaccination, rather than one year.
What about the human vaccine. How much protection does it really offer ?

I know the dog vaccine lasts a lot longer than they say. Up to 10 years I think.
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Old 11-26-2019, 03:39 AM
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... I was considering getting a vaccination now. But I’m not exactly sure how much protection it gives.
they require them to work with bats, last time I looked into it they were about $11K that's for the Imovax then you need to find someone willing to inject you. as I recall it was 4 doses over a 2 week period.
Imovax? Is that the only one ? I’ve heard it was only a few hundred dollars.

And doctors will vaccinate you if you tell them you work with animals or if you are planning to travel to certain countries like rural India.
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Old 11-26-2019, 04:23 AM
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What about the human vaccine. How much protection does it really offer ?

I know the dog vaccine lasts a lot longer than they say. Up to 10 years I think.
Ten years? That is interesting and would be wonderful if it is true. In all my research, I have not come across such a thing, but I'm sure that lots of things happen anecdotally that never make the medical journals.

I can only speak from my personal experience with human rabies treatment. (Not vaccination.) I was exposed to rabies twice within five years. The first time was about twenty years ago, back in the days when the treatment regimen involved ten injections. Second time was just a couple years after that, and I should have gotten only a two-shot booster dose that time. (Instead, they mistakenly gave me the ten-shot treatment again, which gave me a nasty case of what they called "serum sickness.")

I learned that booster doses are needed with each exposure to rabies up to five years after the initial treatment. After five years, then the full regimen of shots are required.

But that was a long time ago. Protocols are a little different now (fewer injections for example).
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Old 11-26-2019, 04:46 AM
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OK, curiosity got me to looking for more current info.

Everything that I saw agrees with this summary:

https://medi-call.id/blog/en/how-lon...ork-in-humans/



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How Long Does Rabies Vaccine Work in Humans?

Regarding how long does rabies vaccine work in humans, the immunity acquired from the vaccine can last a long time. The longevity of rabies vaccine ranges between 3 to 10 years depending on the booster dose that is given. For example, to prevent rabies, rabies vaccinations are given three times, on the day of the first injection and on day 7 and day 21 after the first injection. For those who have a high exposure of rabies, it is suggested to receive 1 booster dose once a year and every 3 to 5 years. Whereas for those who are not at high risk of rabies exposure but want to get a vaccination, vaccination is recommended every 10 years.

On the other hand, for post-exposure vaccination, 4 to 5 injections will be given if the person has not been vaccinated. If the vaccination has been done enough, the next shot will be given 2 times each year. Additional doses are usually not needed except for those at very high risk. After the booster dose, a study found that 97% of immuno-competent individuals showed a level of protection at 10 years. Therefore, about how long does rabies vaccine work in humans, immunity following a series of doses is usually long-lasting.

Those who qualify to get the vaccine are veterinarians, animal workers, and travelers going to areas that are endemic to rabies.

Here's info that I found for travelers: https://www.passporthealthusa.com/vaccinations/rabies/

Hmmm... OK. I am not a vet nor can I provide proof that I work with animals (animal shelter, wildlife rehab, etc.). But maybe I would consider a trip to, say, Peru...or any other country that is a high risk for rabies...

So, if I have the bucks for the vaccination program, and a plan or desire to travel, I should be able to get the vaccines, right?
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Old 11-26-2019, 10:32 AM
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Regarding Feral - In news feed today.

"Woman killed by feral hogs outside Texas home: ‘In my 35 years, I will tell you it’s one of the worst things I’ve ever seen"
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...cou-story.html
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Old 11-26-2019, 12:58 PM
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Regarding Feral - In news feed today.

"Woman killed by feral hogs outside Texas home: ĎIn my 35 years, I will tell you itís one of the worst things Iíve ever seen"
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...cou-story.html
Whoa, that's close to Houston. Bring back .50 cal. helicopter hunting of feral hogs! A business used to offer the hunts but they were shut down by the FAA for some reason.
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Old 11-26-2019, 01:17 PM
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Regarding Feral - In news feed today.

"Woman killed by feral hogs outside Texas home: ‘In my 35 years, I will tell you it’s one of the worst things I’ve ever seen"
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...cou-story.html
Whoa, that's close to Houston. Bring back .50 cal. helicopter hunting of feral hogs! A business used to offer the hunts but they were shut down by the FAA for some reason.
there are still helicopter hog hunts. A few companies offer them. It’s NOT cheap. It’s a couple thousand bucks.



One company was **** down because of FAA safety violations a couple years ago. But it wasn’t fort the hunts it was just aviation safety violations. And I think they had a crash.

Massad Ayoob was in a crash hog hunting , not sure if it was in Texas.
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Old 11-26-2019, 01:25 PM
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What about the human vaccine. How much protection does it really offer ?

I know the dog vaccine lasts a lot longer than they say. Up to 10 years I think.
Ten years? That is interesting and would be wonderful if it is true. In all my research, I have not come across such a thing, but I'm sure that lots of things happen anecdotally that never make the medical journals.

I can only speak from my personal experience with human rabies treatment. (Not vaccination.) I was exposed to rabies twice within five years. The first time was about twenty years ago, back in the days when the treatment regimen involved ten injections. Second time was just a couple years after that, and I should have gotten only a two-shot booster dose that time. (Instead, they mistakenly gave me the ten-shot treatment again, which gave me a nasty case of what they called "serum sickness.")

I learned that booster doses are needed with each exposure to rabies up to five years after the initial treatment. After five years, then the full regimen of shots are required.

But that was a long time ago. Protocols are a little different now (fewer injections for example).
They give you a booster if you are exposed , but that’s because rabies is so deadly. I found an article on rabies in the Philippines that said children with enough antibodies who are exposed and cant get treatment ( it’s expensive ) benefit from the pre exposure vaccine. And are often immune.

The expensive part of rabies treatment is not the vaccine although the vaccine isn’t cheap. It’s the Bkood transfusion. They inject you with blood from a donor who has been vaccinated. thr pharma companies literally have to pay humans to get the vaccine and donate blood. NOT cheap.
But you only need this for post exposure treatment IF you don’t have a current vaccination.

Post exposure treatment wouldn’t be available after SHTF. In fact even a vaccine only approach wouldn’t be available, although the vaccine doesn’t go bad real fast like the blood product.

If you are bit by a rabid animal post SHTF it’s likely fatal UNLESS you’ve been vaccinated. Then it still may be fatal but you have a better chance.
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Old 11-27-2019, 01:31 AM
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If there's a serious collapse, the threat from rabies will have to be weighed against the benefits of having dogs. Given the choice of working in the fields all day and having to stay up all night, or giving the job to an animal that been bred specifically for the task, you'll have to make the same choice that humans have made for millennia. They have evolved to eat nearly anything, mature faster than humans, and require a minimum of training and supervision. They can hear, see, smell and fight better than a human, and within a year are armed and ready to work on their own. Train a dog to hunt wild hogs and a forty pound dog will chase down a two hundred pound hog and hold it by the ear until you walk up and cut the hogs throat. That's a force multiplier.
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Old 11-27-2019, 03:32 AM
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Many people in the 'hood carry big sticks when out walking because of packs of dogs. That custom may spread if feral dogs become a problem, rather than becoming dinner.
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Old 11-27-2019, 08:02 AM
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I world at a factory in Turkey ad feral dogs were a REAL problem. A pack would chase the car biting the door handles when you pulled in to the industrial estate. Luckily the factory had a security gate so as long as you didn't stop and get to of the car, it was fine.
One colleague was card of dogs so, obviously, we would slow down and start to lower his window!
I wouldn't fancy anyones chances outside of a vehicle. They made a hell of a noise but I guess they were acting territorially (trying to run you off) rather than 'hunting' you.
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Old 11-28-2019, 03:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Jim from 28DaysLater View Post
Thanks, Grizzlyette. Especially you and Chops249 were really helpful here. And what a video. That's really just about all one needs, by itself.

I thought the problem over more after posting, and concluded the same thing as you about letting dogs loose, too. One would more tend to expect that people would let them loose instead of killing them. They'd only kill them if they were pretty sure they were in a pretty hard position of impending starvation.

Anything less than pretty good certainty of that, and they'd tend to stop short of the most extreme decisions.

Probably what's going to have to happen is government's going to have to be kind of on the ball, and put an announcement out that people should not let their dogs loose, and provide a euthanasia service.
Canít quite fathom a SHTF type situation where people would be letting their dogs go free, yet the government still being stable enough to provide a euthanasia service...
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Old 11-28-2019, 03:48 AM
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Originally Posted by GrizzlyetteAdams View Post
OK, curiosity got me to looking for more current info.

Everything that I saw agrees with this summary:

https://medi-call.id/blog/en/how-lon...ork-in-humans/






Those who qualify to get the vaccine are veterinarians, animal workers, and travelers going to areas that are endemic to rabies.

Here's info that I found for travelers: https://www.passporthealthusa.com/vaccinations/rabies/

Hmmm... OK. I am not a vet nor can I provide proof that I work with animals (animal shelter, wildlife rehab, etc.). But maybe I would consider a trip to, say, Peru...or any other country that is a high risk for rabies...

So, if I have the bucks for the vaccination program, and a plan or desire to travel, I should be able to get the vaccines, right?
See if your health insurance covers it for travel, or with minimal co-pay. Mine did, but that was over a decade ago now.

Folks whom are mentioning post rabies exposure follow up treatment, even if vaccinated are spot on.

The vaccine series extends the amount of time post exposure treatment would be effective. Minimally effective without post exposure treatment, but also better odds than not.
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Old 12-01-2019, 06:01 AM
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I world at a factory in Turkey ad feral dogs were a REAL problem. A pack would chase the car biting the door handles when you pulled in to the industrial estate. Luckily the factory had a security gate so as long as you didn't stop and get to of the car, it was fine.
One colleague was card of dogs so, obviously, we would slow down and start to lower his window!
I wouldn't fancy anyones chances outside of a vehicle. They made a hell of a noise but I guess they were acting territorially (trying to run you off) rather than 'hunting' you.
On the same journey that I mentioned earlier in this thread, I travelled through the Marmara Region & although the dog problem is probably better than further east, I had a few encounters.
A Sjambok whip saw them off. I was carrying it for that reason & it worked really well. If I ever go back I'd carry one again.
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Old 12-01-2019, 06:33 AM
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There have only been a total of twenty-three cases of human rabies reported in the United States in the past decade (2008-2017). And eight of these were contracted outside of the U.S. and its territories.

Just something to think about, as there are a lot more things that can have a much greater chance of harming you. Especially when you consider the fact there are almost 330,000,000, (read 330 MILLION), people in this country.
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Old 12-01-2019, 07:13 AM
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Just something to think about, as there are a lot more things that can have a much greater chance of harming you. Especially when you consider the fact there are almost 330,000,000, (read 330 MILLION), people in this country.

Keep in mind, a good number of those folks live in cities and other areas where rabies control measures are strictly enforced.


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There have only been a total of twenty-three cases of human rabies reported in the United States in the past decade (2008-2017). And eight of these were contracted outside of the U.S. and its territories.
It is no surprise that the US has such a low rate of rabies because of the aggressive vaccination programs in place, in addition to oral vaccines in bait that is administered to wild animals. (The UK was quite successful with their strict rabies control program, partly because of their relatively small land mass isolated by water.)

By contrast, almost all human deaths caused by rabies occur in Africa, Asia and other countries where dog licensing and control measures are quite lax.

It could become the same way in the USA during a prolonged/widespread SHTF situation if rabies control is no longer possible.

Once upon a time, there were never this many pets in this country! (In 2016 the American Pet Products Association reported there are approximately 90 million dogs and 94 million cats in the US.) Pet owners are a huge market for big business these days.

I don't know what the statistics are, but it seems like the crappier the economy, the more animals are dumped on the side of the road and abandoned in rural areas.

Imagine how many animals will be abandoned when the economy REALLY tanks. Ugh. Most people do not have the gonads to euthanize their pets if necessary, and mistakenly think that someone else will take them in, or else they can fend for themselves.
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