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Old 01-02-2020, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Major Mjolnir View Post
"Quote:
Originally Posted by Major Mjolnir View Post
People keep saying that the technique of batoning wood [with a knife] is historically documented. If it is I can't find anything previous to say, the prior 25 years, that describe it as a recommended procedure. If anyone has a link they trust I'd like to see it.
I would certainly baton if circumstances required it - I've just never been in that position and don't intend to if I can help it.
"

Added...with a knife - Sorry, thought it was obvious.
Note that article also mentions using wedges to split wood:

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Old 01-02-2020, 08:41 AM
Major Mjolnir Major Mjolnir is online now
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@drobs Nice link, as was the one from the previous poster. My point isn't that a person should not know how to baton with a knife or how to use a fabricated wedge but that in most cases battoning just isn't necessary. There just isn't any historical evidence of widespread use of a baton and a knife to split firewood in N. America as a recommended procedure prior to the last 25 years or so.
Not with Boone, not with Simon Kenton, Louis & Clark, Horace Kephart, George Washington Sear a/k/a Nessmuk, not one mention of 'Long Hunters' using a Green River knife in such a manner - you get the picture.
If someone has what they believe is a historically accurate link of such, please post it.
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Old 01-02-2020, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Major Mjolnir View Post
@drobs Nice link, as was the one from the previous poster. My point isn't that a person should not know how to baton with a knife or how to use a fabricated wedge but that in most cases battoning just isn't necessary. There just isn't any historical evidence of widespread use of a baton and a knife to split firewood in N. America as a recommended procedure prior to the last 25 years or so.
Not with Boone, not with Simon Kenton, Louis & Clark, Horace Kephart, George Washington Sear a/k/a Nessmuk, not one mention of 'Long Hunters' using a Green River knife in such a manner - you get the picture.
If someone has what they believe is a historically accurate link of such, please post it.

Not all Froes look the same. Here's a wrought iron Froe Knife dated between 1790 to 1850.

https://kyhistory.pastperfectonline....8-963505498546



1920's reference using a jack knife to split wood:
https://bookdome.com/outdoors/campin...l#.Xg4uHPxry00

https://bookdome.com/outdoors/campin...l#.Xg4uDfxry01




I don't think battoning with a knife was significant enough to be mentioned by historical texts.
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Old 01-02-2020, 02:46 PM
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...and a cooper's froe from here: https://shakerml.org/object/?id=2740
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Old 01-02-2020, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad, 2nd View Post
I do not understand the fascination with batoning....
I just batoned 3 small logs for the fire place. There's a practical side, making smaller pieces of woods to start a fire, or to get to the part on the inside that isnt wet. I have three knives that I use mostly for this sort of thing.
Also, its a testament to how tought and reliable the knife is. If in this day and age a survival/outdoors knife cant take a few wacks to the spine of blade as it splits wood, then its just a pretty crappy knife. Lots of blades in all price ranges can easily handle that task.
And it certainly inst anything new. I have an 80s survival book from some Spanish guy describing batoning, done often by the sami people.
Ever heard of a puukko knife? you probably have.
Ever heard of the Sami people? Probably have as well, natives of Finland.
What about the Sami knife... the knife the sami people relied on?
Big version of the pukkoo, about 8 inch blade, what some youtube wannabe knife expert would call a chopper. The sami would often use such a knife to split wood by batoning to reach the dry part inside and start a fire.
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Old 01-02-2020, 06:36 PM
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Batoning wood with a butter knife

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Old 01-02-2020, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Major Mjolnir View Post
SNIP

Not with Boone, not with Simon Kenton, Louis & Clark, Horace Kephart, George Washington Sear a/k/a Nessmuk, not one mention of 'Long Hunters' using a Green River knife in such a manner - you get the picture.

If someone has what they believe is a historically accurate link of such, please post it.
Simon Kenton... now he was a seriously BAMF!!
He deserves much more credit for his role in the birth of this great nation. It is not an exaggeration to say that were it not for him we may not be here today yet he gets hardly a passing mention in some history books.

“The Frontiersmen” by Allan W. Eckert does a pretty good job telling his tale and is one of my all time favorite pieces of historical nonfiction. (Not for the squeamish)

Apologies for the derail.
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Old 01-02-2020, 07:05 PM
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Buck Knives made a compadre Froe for a while. was plain or red series. think they discontinued now
seen em on ebay for bout $150 the Buck 108
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Old 01-02-2020, 11:07 PM
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I'd like to bring up the middle ground between the chopping/splitting ability of a hatchet and the packability/versatility of a knife: the tomahawk.

My Cold Steel Trailhawk chops and splits as well as any hatchet I've used, weighs significantly less, is easier to make a replacement handle in the woods, AND is more versatile. I've cleaned fish with it. It wasn't pretty, but it got done. There IS a learning curve to swinging a lighter head on a longer stick (leave the handle long, the extra leverage and speed compensate for the lack of mass).
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Old 01-03-2020, 03:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaSierraCharlie View Post
I'd like to bring up the middle ground between the chopping/splitting ability of a hatchet and the packability/versatility of a knife: the tomahawk.

My Cold Steel Trailhawk chops and splits as well as any hatchet I've used, weighs significantly less, is easier to make a replacement handle in the woods, AND is more versatile. I've cleaned fish with it. It wasn't pretty, but it got done. There IS a learning curve to swinging a lighter head on a longer stick (leave the handle long, the extra leverage and speed compensate for the lack of mass).
Do you find it that more handy than a large large, if you are carrying only one tool? I dont know if the wood splitting vs all other knife tasks ratio justifies it.
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Old 01-03-2020, 12:06 PM
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Mora bushcraft and 130mm silky saw
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Old 01-03-2020, 01:51 PM
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another that can be used as a splitter is a WT Smilodon. its more of a cleaver than a knife, but serves dual purpose full hand and a half on the grip, .250 D2 holds a edge and will sheer thru bone if ya got the effort to push it. same as a hatchet.,
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Old 01-03-2020, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FerFAL View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaSierraCharlie View Post
I'd like to bring up the middle ground between the chopping/splitting ability of a hatchet and the packability/versatility of a knife: the tomahawk.

My Cold Steel Trailhawk chops and splits as well as any hatchet I've used, weighs significantly less, is easier to make a replacement handle in the woods, AND is more versatile. I've cleaned fish with it. It wasn't pretty, but it got done. There IS a learning curve to swinging a lighter head on a longer stick (leave the handle long, the extra leverage and speed compensate for the lack of mass).
Do you find it that more handy than a large large, if you are carrying only one tool? I dont know if the wood splitting vs all other knife tasks ratio justifies it.
Do you mean a large axe, or a large knife?

Unless I'm dealing with trees bigger than a folding saw can handle, I'll choose that particular style of tomahawk over a full size axe if I can only have one.

Tomahawk vs. large knife, it depends on what I'm expecting to do. But the more I use the 'hawk the more inclined I am to prefer it and a small knife over a large knife AND a small knife.

A tomahawk does take a bit of usage before you can get the most out of it, so I wouldn't replace another piece of kit with it until you've gotten the hang of it.
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Old 01-04-2020, 10:36 AM
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For weight savings, I really like a decent, belt-fixed knife and a Silky saw. There's just so much you can do and to be honest, unless you're building a major shelter, I just can never justify carrying an axe if doing long distance stuff. One you get a fire built, I've never needed a large saw, chopper, or axe to process wood. Of course, that is very relative to location and season. I can understand those that live in a boreal forest area or trekking through snow would find the heft and value of an axe far more than me in my location.

I would strongly consider a tomahawk in addition to a belt knife and saw. Sort of a jack-of-all-trades, master of none tool. The simple Cold Steel Trailhawk has been used as a knife, adz, ulu, chisel, plane, etc. Having a friction head tomahawk can be a very good tool (not the best chopper or splitter by any means though).

ROCK6
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Old 01-04-2020, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FerFAL View Post
, or to get to the part on the inside that isnt wet.
How do y'all get to the inside dry part if you don't "baton"?
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Old 01-04-2020, 03:09 PM
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Split it with your thumbnail, like Paul Bunyan.
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Old 01-04-2020, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by AlphaSierraCharlie View Post
Split it with your thumbnail, like Paul Bunyan.
I tried to baton my thumb and am now at the hospital... So no.
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Old 01-04-2020, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
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How do y'all get to the inside dry part if you don't "baton"?
ON all my big kits, you will notice 2 tubes mounted on the sheath. both are oring sealed, pill carriers you buy at any drugstore. one is filled with magnesium shavings. one is filled with southern pitch lighter wood shavings. using bow drill, fire piston (with char cloth) flint and steel, Fresnel lens, I can start a pocket fire to build on even on a day when the devil himself couldnt make a spark. ALWAYS have at least 2 ways to start a burn in your kit.
a blade with kit stays strapped to my bag, and my butt dont travel anywhere without my bag. i will put up with a lil extra weight just to have that ability.
opinions may differ and vary........
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Old 01-04-2020, 11:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goblin X View Post
ON all my big kits, you will notice 2 tubes mounted on the sheath. both are oring sealed, pill carriers you buy at any drugstore. one is filled with magnesium shavings. one is filled with southern pitch lighter wood shavings. using bow drill, fire piston (with char cloth) flint and steel, Fresnel lens, I can start a pocket fire to build on even on a day when the devil himself couldnt make a spark. ALWAYS have at least 2 ways to start a burn in your kit.
a blade with kit stays strapped to my bag, and my butt dont travel anywhere without my bag. i will put up with a lil extra weight just to have that ability.
opinions may differ and vary........
No.i get that. I to carry five sta rter

but not my question... How do you get to the inside dry if you don't baton?
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Old 01-05-2020, 05:02 AM
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notch it. start your burn in the notch,.........
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